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It is possible.
LOL, where did that come from?
It is possible.
Pippen has 0 MVPs. Find an MVP with 6 rings and we can compare them to Duncan.
I don't think he's going to catch Jordan in the Finals MVP but he can surpass him in rings and that would make up for it.Him winning would certainly help, but is it reasonable to say that Kobe can win 6 more Finals MVP starting at the age of 29? Not impossible, just not that likely. It would be difficult for him to get 4.
How many MVPs does Sam Jones have?Then I really have nothing to say. Sam Jones is more accomplished than Jordan, the guy got 8 rings! Doesn't matter that Russell and Cousy were the driving force.
How many MVPs does Otis Thorpe have?Otis Thorpe got one ring, Malone got zero. Thorpe is more accomplish than Malone. This is consistent with your previous logic of how Kobe's 3 rings is a better accomplishment of 2 rings, or how Pippen's 6 rings is the same accomplishments as Jordan's 6.
How many MVPs does Parker have? This has been discussed already. Kobe already has 1 MVP, when Parker gets 1 MVP, he can join the discussion.Parker has the chance to be better than Jordan because he got 3 rings to Jordan's zero at the same age of 26. Parker is more accomplished.
Have any of you read the comments on the actual blog?
Using compe ive drive as an arguing point as to whether a player is better than Michael Jordan is some of the oddest I've ever read in my life.I've made this argument several times and there is always that one jordan fan who says "kobe will never be better than jordan." I'm not trying to undermine jordan's game, i have respect for what he did to the game, but jordan should not go down as the best player to ever pick up a basketball. Yes he has accomplished more, but Kobe has a much better all around game than jordan ever did. The one factor that I especially think sets Kobe ahead of jordan is their drive to be the best. When jordan played he wanted to be the best in the league. His drive was being better than those around him but that didnt mean he had the game he could have achieved, with kobe his drive is having a PERFECT game. Ya kobe wants to be better than those around him and of course he wants to be the best, but he feels that he needs to have a perfect game. He wants to be the best at every aspect of the game. This is what pushes him ahead of jordan, Kobe is obsessed with being perfect and wont stop until he achieves the absolute best.
Yes, I think Pippen is a Top50 player, even today.
If Kobe wins three more rings he might be as great as Scottie Pippen.
First off, Pippen never got even 1 MVP.
But let's go with that a minute and say you're right. If Kobe gets 6 lets put him with Pippen. What if Kobe gets 7 rings? Or 8 Rings?
Who in there is he ahead of? if any? That is 34 names, total I can give you 16 more with my eyes closed. And even if i couldn't, Shaq is on most people top 10, no comparison.
Off your list
Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, Amare Stoudamire, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash (2 league MVPS, probably does it for him), Dwight Howard (He will be) Tracy Mcgrady, Yao Ming,
I would definitely put Pippen ahead of Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Amare, DWade.
It's dinner time for me. Post away, I'll answer when I get back.
Wade is already ahead of him, he carried a team to a le with Shaq not what he once was. When did Kobe do that, oh yeah that's right, he had a shot, the Pistons -slapped him.
Mcgrady based on talent and stats alone is ahead of Pippen.
Ming same thing
1. Kobe v. MJ is about as fresh and interesting as a debate on the origins of Balkanization.
2. MJ is treated as the end-all, be-all by too many young people. I can name five more valuable players I have seen play in my own lifetime: The Big O, Wilt The Stilt, Dr. J, Iceman, and Russell.
Oscar Robertson = The best small man ever. Statistically, no one can touch him. Robertson carried entire teams for most of his career, from high school to the NBA. The Kings (formerly Royals) and possibly the Bucks would not exist today if not for Robertson. This is part of my definition of value: Robertson saved the very existence of at least one franchise.
Wilt Chamberlain = I'm not going to waste bandwidth on defending Chamberlain as a selection for one of the five most valuable players in the history of pro basketball. Without Chamberlain, the NBA may not have returned to his native Philadelphia after the relocation of the Warriors until the expansion of the early 1980s...
Julius Erving = Dr. J was a better player in his prime than Michael Jordan, from a pure skills standpoint (as was Robertson). You can question this all you want, but you won't find anyone who actually saw his prime in the ABA question this very seriously. I accept that the skill level of the opposition may not have been as high, but Erving's seasons with the Squires and Nets were probably the most dominant perforamnces in pro ball, ever. Without Dr. J, the ABA would have been driven out of business, and the merger would not have happened.
George Gervin = As a kid growing up in southern Indiana, my basketball world centered on I.U. and the Pacers, the most dominant team for the history of the ABA. There were two ABA teams that you wanted to see play the Pacers, because they were also "NBA quality." If Dr. J or the Iceman beat you, you went home disappointed, but you knew you had just watched one of a game. David Robinson and Tim Duncan would have played somewhere else than San Antonio if not for the Iceman. Like my other examples, Gervin's value was saving a franchise.
Bill Russell = I can't really argue that Russell kept the Celtics in Boston, but it may very well be the case. Russell was THE core player on eleven championship teams. Russell also coached two of those teams. Now THAT'S value.
Last edited by Reggie Miller; 10-23-2008 at 09:32 PM.
If Kobe gets 7 rings then he's better than Pippen. Face it: Nothing he's done so far in his career is close to Jordan. Truth be told, Kobe's not even in the top three Lakers of all time. He's a great basketball player, no question, but he doesn't deserve to have this many pages of a message board thread dedicated to such a ridiculous discussion. I only post in it because it's the offseason and there's nothing else to do, but it's frankly such an easy argument to win it's like clubbing baby seals in here.
Ignoring the "pure talent" question, which is largely unanswerable (different positions, different eras, etc.), Bryant isn't even in the discussion when it comes to the most important players in the history of pro basketball. At this point, Bryant is more likely to be remembered as the complimentary player on three Shaq teams and "that guy who scored 81 points in a game" than for anything else.
Hey someone else who sees where Kobe is at right now. See what happens when you take that Laker cap off and open up those eyes just a little Allanon .
And may be as good as or better than Jordan.
I agree. But he has many years left to define his legacy.Face it: Nothing he's done so far in his career is close to Jordan. Truth be told, Kobe's not even in the top three Lakers of all time. He's a great basketball player, no question
There's no "winning" this argument. You have won nothing. Nobody knows what Kobe may do. And if you know what Kobe's going to do the rest of his career, I may have to ask you for the next lotto numbers.but he doesn't deserve to have this many pages of a message board thread dedicated to such a ridiculous discussion. I only post in it because it's the offseason and there's nothing else to do, but it's frankly such an easy argument to win it's like clubbing baby seals in here.
That is true today. But who knows what he will accomplish in the next few years of his career?
Celtics, but I know what you mean. Kobe has several years to slap the Celtics. My guess is it will start this year.When did Kobe do that, oh yeah that's right, he had a shot, the Pistons -slapped him.
I'd take Pippen over any of those guys any day (assuming they've accomplished all they will accomplish).Mcgrady based on talent and stats alone is ahead of Pippen.
Ming same thing
What? Isn't that going against everything you've been saying about what Kobe has yet to accomplish?
Why don't we just assume Kobe has accomplished all he will?
It's a hypothetical question and a hypothetical answer and I definitely could be wrong about TMAC, Wade, Yao, etc. Just like today, if we assumed Kobe's done, I'd take Jordan.
Of course we know all of these guys are still ongoing.
I'll give you this much: He deserves to be in these kind of "what if" and other hot stove arguments.
On the other hand, consider this. Reggie Miller is definitely going to make the Basketball HOF. Bryant probably will also.
As the years go by, I am realizing that Kobe is environmentally re ed. Seriously, he grew up overeseas as the child of a pro athlete. No wonder he acts the fool.
And the clubbing continues, only this time I can sit back and watch as you do it to yourself. At this point, Wade looks more like Jordan than Kobe does.
You want to compare a guy who left a game in a wheelchair to Kobe Bryant ?
Perhaps you were impressed by his performance at the olympics ?
Wade isn't on Kobe's level. He doesn't have Kobe's mental toughness, clutchness/killer instinct, nor is his game as complete as Kobe's (and never will be). Kobe's nba resume blows Wade's away (http://www.kb24.com/bio). I can just stop right here. It's silly, really.
Straw man.You want to compare a guy who left a game in a wheelchair to Kobe Bryant ?
Perhaps you were impressed by his performance at the olympics ?
Wade isn't on Kobe's level. He doesn't have Kobe's mental toughness, clutchness/killer instinct, nor is his game as complete as Kobe's (and never will be). Kobe's nba resume blows Wade's away (http://www.kb24.com/bio). I can just stop right here. It's silly, really.
Compare Bryant to Robertson.
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