McDonald: Spurs' Three Bubble Players Fight For Two Roster Spots

[Slippy]

“We spend a lot of time discussing, arguing, going back and forth, projecting the future,” he said.

Thinking why Pop wants Tolliver to work. A shooting big who's competent down low at 23 offers a lot of room to grow. Going from his college days to the kind of player he's now. He's already shown some positive signs of wanting to improve and grow as a player. With Horry gone and Bonner his only real compe ion there is a role to be filled.

Projecting his future would factor in small ball situations . Same would apply to Hairston.

[Obstructed_View]

I know, but that's what makes me skeptical about Farmer. He is, without question, an accomplished scorer. However, I don't see him taking over games or even earning "crunch time" minutes, so long as the Big Three are intact and Bruce is still doing his thing.

The way I see it, the Spurs go into offensive dry spells. They just need a guy who can go into the game and make a couple of baskets until the team gets going again. It's been a problem for the Spurs for a long time. Guys like Antoine Carr and Doc Rivers were great at being able to get the team back into rhythm on the offensive end.

Farmer is no more of a defensive liability than Finley is or Barry was, so I don't see the harm in having him earn some opportunities. Manu's the 2 on the floor in crunch time anyway.

[timtonymanu]

i wish we didnt have bonner and vaughn so we could sign all three guys.

[Bruno]

Yesterday was the deadline to cut players for free. Now if a player with a fully non guaranteed contract (like Farmer and likely Hairston) is waived, he will cost at least one day of his salary to his team.

Spurs have decided to spend a few $k to postponed the last cut. It likely means two things :
- The choice isn't an easy one to do.
- Today's game against Miami will be damn important for them.

And every time you compare Farmer to Hairston, don't forget that he is 6 years older and that he has 4 professional years with NBA, D-League, overseas and training camp experience.

[Ice009]

Thinking why Pop wants Tolliver to work. A shooting big who's competent down low at 23 offers a lot of room to grow. Going from his college days to the kind of player he's now. He's already shown some positive signs of wanting to improve and grow as a player. With Horry gone and Bonner his only real compe ion there is a role to be filled.

Projecting his future would factor in small ball situations . Same would apply to Hairston.

How about the Spurs dump Vaughn and Bonner and sign Farmer, Hairston, Tolliver and the man called Robert Horry. By resigning Robert Horry you get that BBall IQ back that you lost by cutting Vaughn and a superior mentor to Tolliver.

[benefactor]

Yesterday was the deadline to cut players for free. Now if a player with a fully non guaranteed contract (like Farmer and likely Hairston) is waived, he will cost at least one day of his salary to his team.

Spurs have decided to spend a few $k to postponed the last cut. It likely means two things :
- The choice isn't an easy one to do.
- Today's game against Miami will be damn important for them.

And every time you compare Farmer to Hairston, don't forget that he is 6 years older and that he has 4 professional years with NBA, D-League, overseas and training camp experience.

This is an important statement. As SenorSpur said earlier in the thread, he probably is what he is right now. He just doesn't feel like a system player and and being 27 years old makes one wonder how much more development is there. But the choice is still tough because you weigh that against his ability to provide an offensive lift while Manu is out. Again...I'm glad I am not the coach.

[tav1]

That quote sounds like a pro-Hairston quote.

That was my initial reaction because Hairston is younger and has a higher ceiling. However, I reminded myself that Pop has thought of Udoka and Mason as young guys for the future, too. Therefore, it's difficult to read too much into it.

[tav1]

How about the Spurs dump Vaughn and Bonner and sign Farmer, Hairston, Tolliver and the man called Robert Horry. By resigning Robert Horry you get that BBall IQ back that you lost by cutting Vaughn and a superior mentor to Tolliver.

Whose backyard are they going to dump them in? In other words, who would want Bonner and Vaughn, not who could the Spurs give them to. It's not easy. Assume it doesn't happen.

[MoSpur]

If it were me picking, I'd take Tolliver and Hairston

[SenorSpur]

The way I see it, the Spurs go into offensive dry spells. They just need a guy who can go into the game and make a couple of baskets until the team gets going again. It's been a problem for the Spurs for a long time. Guys like Antoine Carr and Doc Rivers were great at being able to get the team back into rhythm on the offensive end.

Farmer is no more of a defensive liability than Finley is or Barry was, so I don't see the harm in having him earn some opportunities. Manu's the 2 on the floor in crunch time anyway.

Understand your point and the arguments of others who are lobbying for Farmer. They make perfect sense. Actually, I don't think the Spurs can go wrong with either. I wish they could keep them both.

My concern with Farmer is once Ginobili comes back and with the addition of Mason, who will obviously play ahead of him, how much PT would Farmer realistically get? Would he rendered irrevelant? Since he's a D-League veteran, he's probably not going to develop much more there. And it would be a waste to have him at the end of the bench.

Hairston, on the other hand, has more skills in his tool belt. Personally, I don't buy the scenario that Hairston couldn't contribute this season. Because of his versatility, I could see him getting spot time at the SG/SF spot . Even if he doesn't, his time wouldn't be a waste as he could be sent to the D-League and called up at Pop's discretion.

Ever since the departure of SJAX, the Spurs have continuously tried to patch the wing position with a collection of veteran FAs, most of which have spurned their advances. A route that is very expensive. Or they've taken fliers on a collection of late round draftees and unproven youngsters (Marcus Williams, James White, Bobby Jones, Jeremy Richardson), all of whom have not panned out, for one reason or another. A route that is very risky.

The point is if Hairston is talented enough and even closely resembles the type of player that fits the Spurs mold and culture, they can ill-afford to jettison him. Thereby allowing another team to snatch him up. In fact, they would be damn fools if they allowed that to happen.

Whoever the Spurs elect to go with at that spot will likely be at the end of the bench anyway. At least with Hairston, he's far more versatile and could potentially solve the need for a long-term answer at the backup SG/SF spot. If the Spurs plan on remaining in contention through the waning years of the Duncan era, they can't keep up this habit of forfeiting young, talented players, in favor of the over-the-hill veteran. They've got to commit to developing the next core of players "on the fly". They've started the process with Hill. They've got to do the same at Bowen's spot. Hairston seems to fit that need. After all, they're not going to rebuild. They have to reload.

[SenorSpur]

This is an important statement. As SenorSpur said earlier in the thread, he probably is what he is right now. He just doesn't feel like a system player and and being 27 years old makes one wonder how much more development is there. But the choice is still tough because you weigh that against his ability to provide an offensive lift while Manu is out. Again...I'm glad I am not the coach.

I was thinking the same thing. I truly believe Farmer may have hit his ceiling. He needs regular court time. Something he'll probably not get here.


You said it best. It's a tough choice. I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

[Bender]

The way I see it, the Spurs go into offensive dry spells. They just need a guy who can go into the game and make a couple of baskets until the team gets going again. It's been a problem for the Spurs for a long time.

yes, if everyone on the spurs outside of the big 3 only puts up a few ppg, we will be having a bunch of 80-point games. I don't see what's wrong with having a new scorer on the team, instead of every new guy being a "well-rounded player, who doesn't score much".

[xtremesteven33]

My (realistic) Spurs plan wish list:

-Cut Tolliver
-Sign Farmer and Hairston
-Sign Horry in midseason to fill big men gap
-Make a run at Mutombo a (FA) to hopefully sign him
-SOMEHOW either cut bonner/Vaughn or trade them

[SenorSpur]

My (realistic) Spurs plan wish list:

-Cut Tolliver
-Sign Farmer and Hairston
-Sign Horry in midseason to fill big men gap
-Make a run at Mutombo a (FA) to hopefully sign him
-SOMEHOW either cut bonner/Vaughn or trade them

Not again. Did we not see enough of Horry last year to know to that he had nothing left?

I'd rather take my chances on Tolliver.

[xtremesteven33]

Not again. Did we not see enough of Horry last year to know to that he had nothing left?

I'd rather take my chances on Tolliver.

No way dude. RIGHT NOW, i dont think Tolliver has shown any signs of being a good player. Horry at least will bring playoff savy and great basketball IQ. Plus he was injured most of last year and i figure it was hard for him to get into rythym come playoff time. No way would i pick Tolliver over Horry right now.

[HarlemHeat37]

Horry is done, bro..I hoped for him to return to form all year long, but he just looked terrible in the playoffs..his shots weren't even close most of the time..he's still pretty good defensively, but we need to go in another direction..

[SenorSpur]

No way dude. RIGHT NOW, i dont think Tolliver has shown any signs of being a good player. Horry at least will bring playoff savy and great basketball IQ. Plus he was injured most of last year and i figure it was hard for him to get into rythym come playoff time. No way would i pick Tolliver over Horry right now.

You can use the injury card all you want. What do you think happens to OLD players? They get injured. Sorry dude. Horry is done. The injury was just an excuse. Yet it couldn't make up for the fact that he looked the part of a player who was at the end. Slow on to loose balls, late on rotations, couldn't stay in front of his man, stroke was off. Time is up. It happens to every player. Basketball IQ aint enough.

[xtremesteven33]

You can use the injury card all you want. What do you think happens to OLD players? They get injured. Sorry dude. Horry is done. The injury was just an excuse. Yet it couldn't make up for the fact that he looked the part of a player who was at the end. Slow on to loose balls, late on rotations, couldn't stay in front of his man, stroke was off. Time is up. It happens to every player. Basketball IQ aint enough.

Yea but he came up big in game 7....something i know tolliver wouldnt do.

[dbestpro]

If it is an issue of being able to provide something for the future I'd cut all three. Hairston and Tolliver are not going to develop into major players. At their best their level of player can be signed in any off season now and in the future. Farmer is too old to make a difference in the future. Farmer could provide a spark right now. For that reason alone I would keep Farmer. It really doesn't matter between Hairston and Tolliver. Maybe you cut Hairston and let Austin sign him as a free agent.

[Spurs Brazil]

“There’s nobody here that’s going to beat out Bruce Bowen for the (small forward) spot or Tony Parker at the point,” Popovich said. “But every team has got a plan for the future, and wants to bring in guys that can develop and hopefully take over at some point.”

I think Malik is ahead now. Tonight's game will be key for them. If they play normal I expect Pop to keep Malik after that quote

[The Truth #6]

I keep questioning why we're trying to fill Horry's shoes, just like we keep trying to find the next Bowen. Yeah, it would be great if they were out there but they're not and we're limiting our choices if we stick too strictly to a formula like this. Bowen and Horry are exceptional, unique talents. We have to find players who can contribute in a legitimate way, not roll the dice on guys who might be able to be groomed into a model we've created. I'm beginning to wonder if this why we're so slow to refresh the team with younger talent.

Knowing what know now, and really, what we knew two years ago, there is no way anyone can honestly believe Bonner would fill Horry's shoes, and to bring it up to date, how can we expect Tolliver to fill his shoes either? There was only one Horry. In the process we let a superior player like Gist get sent off to Europe so we could find 'the real' Horry replacement. Compared to Tolliver (and Bonner) Gist was a better defender, better rebounder, had a better nose for the ball, was more athletic, and in general, was someone we should have kept but we're too caught up finding the replacement to Horry's replacement, rather than realizing that this mode of thought is completely flawed.

The sad thing is that with Gist gone we probably could use Tolliver because Bonner doesn't seem up to the challenge this year. He's already shrinking.

Hairston could have a better NBA career than Farmer in the long run but I don't think long term is the time frame this current team can consider. We needed points last year and we'll need them even more this year. It's a priority and I realize Pop probably wouldn't play Farmer much but there will be times when it would be worth getting him off the bench to see if he can help us when we go through some of our droughts.

Some have said Hairston and Farmer would be our 14th and 15th players if they were on the team. In my opinion, regarding our wings there hasn't been that much separation between Finley, Mason, Hairston, and Farmer, with Udoka being only slightly better. Sure, Pop might treat them as last options, and yes, their inexperience is something to be concerned about, but who contributes for us this year from the wing is wide open in my opinion.

[PerforatedNeckline]

just a little point about Tolliver...
people keep pointing to his rotten shooting percentage during the pre-season, but he was absolutely unconscious during summer league...
so i think it's more of a question of: which one is the fluke and which one is the real deal? the spurs have seen that he's CAPABLE of lighting it up over a somewhat extended stretch, so the fact that he isn't RIGHT NOW probably doesn't concern them too much, especially if he's showing willingness to rebound, defend, scrap for loose balls, and a nice ability to finish around the rim.

[The Truth #6]

The short followup to my rant is that assuming Pop is still trying to find the next player to fill Bowen's shoes, then he most likely will choose Hairston to be his Cinderella.

The SJax archetype has not been one the FO has actively tried to pursue, which is why Farmer will be gone.

However, there is an irony at work with Farmer. People keep saying that he's too old to change and that he's bounced around the league too long. Since when did bouncing around the league stop being the sort of litmus test that appeals to Pop. Under what has been the standard operating procedure, one would think that Farmer would have the advantage in that category. However, I realize that Famer's ability to shoot the ball and not being signed already somehow, paradoxically, makes it seem like something is wrong with him.

[SenorSpur]

Knowing what know now, and really, what we knew two years ago, there is no way anyone can honestly believe Bonner would fill Horry's shoes, and to bring it up to date, how can we expect Tolliver to fill his shoes either? There was only one Horry. In the process we let a superior player like Gist get sent off to Europe so we could find 'the real' Horry replacement. Compared to Tolliver (and Bonner) Gist was a better defender, better rebounder, had a better nose for the ball, was more athletic, and in general, was someone we should have kept but we're too caught up finding the replacement to Horry's replacement, rather than realizing that this mode of thought is completely flawed. .

That's probably the best point of this entire thread.

The sad thing is that with Gist gone we probably could use Tolliver because Bonner doesn't seem up to the challenge this year. He's already shrinking..

I admit that I was one who wanted to see what Bonner could do with more extensive minutes. Looks like he's no better than he was last year or the year before. Makes me wonder what the FO was thinking when they elected to re-up him. I would've rather had Gist and Tolliver on the roster.

Some have said Hairston and Farmer would be our 14th and 15th players if they were on the team. In my opinion, regarding our wings there hasn't been that much separation between Finley, Mason, Hairston, and Farmer, with Udoka being only slightly better. Sure, Pop might treat them as last options, and yes, their inexperience is something to be concerned about, but who contributes for us this year from the wing is wide open in my opinion.

For all we know, Hairston could be a better all-around player than any of the wing players on this roster. We just don't know. However, let's not be quick to judge the guy before he's had a chance to get on the floor. Would Houston have known about Carl Landry, also a 2nd round pick, had they simply banished him to the bench or rushed to judgement and cut the guy? The only way these guys get appreciably better is with practice and playing time. We'll never replenish the roster if we throw out everyone we draft before seeing if they can flourish.

[xtremesteven33]

For all we know, Hairston could be a better all-around player than any of the wing players on this roster. We just don't know. However, let's not be quick to judge the guy before he's had a chance to get on the floor. Would Houston have known about Carl Landry had they simply banished him to the bench or rushed to judgement and cut the guy? The only way these guys get appreciably better is with practice and playing time. We'll never replenish the roster if we throw out everyone we draft before seeing if they can flourish.

I agree