KB24.com: Kobe vs Jordan

[DPG21920]

I am 50/50 on this one as to whether Kobe will match or surpass Jordan as GOAT.

For facts, I use the fact that Kobe at 30 is at virtually the same point as Jordan at age 30. A couple of championships down, an MVP in the pocket and a championship caliber team. Both had lost their selfish tags at this point and were all about winning and leading their respective teams.

After this year, I think we will have a much better feel for this, the timing on this question is 1 season too early.

What Kobe does starting this year will determine whether or not he has the goods to become GOAT or mentioned with him.

But the "fact" you use was already demonstrated to be absurd considering Jordan's accomplishments while he was 30 vs. Kobe (what he would have to do this year)

[Allanon]

But the "fact" you use was already demonstrated to be absurd considering Jordan's accomplishments while he was 30 vs. Kobe (what he would have to do this year)

Sorry if I don't include college achievements into the equation. It's neither right nor wrong, but I don't consider what a player does in college as part of his "career". Especially since Kobe never had the benefit of going to college to win awards.

[Obstructed_View]

Sorry if I don't include college achievements into the equation. It's neither right nor wrong, but I don't consider what a player does in college as part of his "career".

You don't seem to consider any of the mountain of evidence that Jordan is an all-time player, and Kobe is a taller version of Allen Iverson.

[DPG21920]

I presume that you include "the day he turned 30" for some reason, but by the end of the season in which he turned 30, Jordan had won an NCAA le, been the Naismith and Wooden player of the year in college, had won two regular season MVPs, led the league in scoring seven years in a row, had won three NBA les and three Finals MVPs, became the second person in NBA history to score 3000 points in a season (also became the first person in NBA history to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in that same season, yet wasn't awarded the MVP), set the record for most points in a playoff game...

If you'd like to cut off "by the day he turned 30" he had done all those things with the exception of the last le and one of the finals MVP awards.

The only things Kobe Bryant has done by the age of 30 that Jordan never did is score 81 points against Toronto, tank a playoff game to spite his team and get outplayed and lose in the finals.

By your weak attempts to compare, someone could make a case that Tony Parker is as close to Jordan as Kobe is.

Sorry if I don't include college achievements into the equation. It's neither right nor wrong, but I don't consider what a player does in college as part of his "career". Especially since Kobe never had the benefit of going to college to win awards.

Even if you take out the college part, he still has done quite a bit more than Kobe.

[Allanon]

You don't seem to consider any of the mountain of evidence that Jordan is an all-time player, and Kobe is a taller version of Allen Iverson.

Jordan's mountain of evidence didn't complete until he was retired.

At age 30, Jordan was a shorter Kobe.

[Allanon]

Even if you take out the college part, he still has done quite a bit more than Kobe.

Unfortunately not true in my opinion. Jordan 2 rings, Kobe 3 rings.

They both got lots of scoring les, defensive things. Jordan had more of some, Kobe had more of others. But those are individual things, winning is what's important.

What is it that the Spur fans say, it's an 82 game pre-season ... or something like that.

[DPG21920]

Unfortunately not true in my opinion. Jordan 2 rings, Kobe 3 rings.

They both got lots of scoring les, defensive things. Jordan had more of some, Kobe had more of others. But those are individual things, winning is what's important.

What is it that the Spur fans say, it's an 82 game pre-season ... or something like that.

I thought Jordan had 3 rings before he was 31 with 3 finals MVP's?

[DPG21920]

How many scoring les does Kobe have? How many in a row? How many years had Kobe played in the nba for his 3 rings versus Jordan?

[Allanon]

I thought Jordan had 3 rings before he was 31 with 3 finals MVP's?

Kobe might have 4 rings and 1 more MVP and 1 Finals MVP before he's 31 but that's in the future. That's why I say this year is a turning point.

edit: oops, counted wrong and corrected.

[DPG21920]

Kobe might have 4 rings and 1 more MVP and 1 Finals MVP before he's 31 but that's in the future. That's why I say this year is a turning point.

He would only tie Jordan's regular season MVP's then, correct? I thought Jordan had 2 before he was 31?

[Allanon]

He would only tie Jordan's regular season MVP's then, correct? I thought Jordan had 2 before he was 31?

Yes, he would be behind Jordan in MVPs and FInals MVPs, but he would still be ahead in # of rings.

[Obstructed_View]

I thought Jordan had 3 rings before he was 31 with 3 finals MVP's?

He did. Allanon keeps going back to Jordan's birthday being before the playoffs and cutting it off there, as though it means something. People who say Kobe's comparable to Jordan aren't old enough to remember watching Jordan play.

I'm the guy who wrote an article about how overrated Jordan was, and he's still an order of magnitude better than Kobe.

[Allanon]

He did. Allanon keeps going back to Jordan's birthday being before the playoffs and cutting it off there, as though it means something. People who say Kobe's comparable to Jordan aren't old enough to remember watching Jordan play.

I'm the guy who wrote an article about how overrated Jordan was, and he's still an order of magnitude better than Kobe.

Jordan was born during the season, Kobe was born during the offseason. So if you count by age, anything Jordan does at a certain age, Kobe gets a full season to match it.

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe might have 4 rings and 1 more MVP and 1 Finals MVP before he's 31 but that's in the future. That's why I say this year is a turning point.

edit: oops, counted wrong and corrected.

Jordan had three of each. Kobe has zero finals MVPs. Can't make those up. Kobe had a team stocked with first ballot hall of famers and couldn't win a ring with them.

[Obstructed_View]

Jordan was born during the season, Kobe was born during the offseason. So if you count by age, anything Jordan does at a certain age, Kobe gets a full season to match it.

Kobe can't match it in two seasons. Jordan's undefeated in the finals. Kobe can't match that without a time machine.

[Allanon]

Jordan had three of each. Kobe has zero finals MVPs. Can't make those up. Kobe had a team stocked with first ballot hall of famers and couldn't win a ring with them.

As nice as a Finals MVP is, I believe a ring is more important than those awards. I'm sure Barkley and Malone would have traded in all their awards for 1 ring.

Jordan had the Finals MVP, Kobe has 1 more ring.

[Obstructed_View]

As nice as a Finals MVP is, I believe a ring is more important than those awards. I'm sure Barkley and Malone would have traded in all their awards for 1 ring.

Jordan had the Finals MVP, Kobe has 1 more ring.

Kobe doesn't have one more ring, Kobe has two more trips to the finals. Kobe had won his three rings by age 24, and hasn't really done since. Parker has the same number of rings, so Parker's closer to Kobe than Kobe is to Jordan.

[Allanon]

Kobe doesn't have one more ring, Kobe has two more trips to the finals. Kobe had won his three rings by age 24, and hasn't really done since. Parker has the same number of rings, so Parker's closer to Kobe than Kobe is to Jordan.

Parker has no MVP. Find any player with 3 rings + 1 MVP under the age of 30 and we can start some comparisons with Jordan at age 30.

And no matter what you say can't change the fact that Kobe had 3 at the same age Jordan had 2.

[dbreiden83080]

And no matter what you say can't change the fact that Kobe had 3 at the same age Jordan had 2.

Nor can you change the fact that Kobe played with a top 10 player of all time, he's won nothing since that player left and Jordan played with a guy who it's very debateable if he is even in the top 50.

[Allanon]

Nor can you change the fact that Kobe played with a top 10 player of all time, he's won nothing since that player left and Jordan played with a guy who it's very debateable if he is even in the top 50.

Pippen IS in the Top50 list, that isn't debateable.

I do agree Kobe's won nothing since Shaq left but Kobe's team has been pretty crappy until this last year.

If Kobe still had Luke, Smush and Kwame as starters, then I'd say Kobe has no chance. But with a young team that can contend into the next 5 years, I see no reason why Kobe shouldn't get a chance.

[DPG21920]

Pippen IS in the Top50 list, that isn't debateable.

I do agree Kobe's won nothing since Shaq left but Kobe's team has been pretty crappy until this last year.

If Kobe still had Luke, Smush and Kwame as starters, then I'd say Kobe has no chance. But with a young team that can contend into the next 5 years, I see no reason why Kobe shouldn't get a chance.

Do you think Kobe could of taken that crappy Laker team to the finals in the east?

[Allanon]

Do you think Kobe could of taken that crappy Laker team to the finals in the east?

Possibly in the East but no way in the West. Depends on the matchups they got along the way.

And there's no way he would have gotten past the Spurs in the Finals.

[DPG21920]

Lebron definitely did it.

[dbreiden83080]

Pippen IS in the Top50 list, that isn't debateable

Your right about that, but let me ask you this?? What is that list worth when players like Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitski, Steve Nash and one day Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, just to name a few are nowhere near it??

Translation, it's not worth the paper it's printed on

[Allanon]

Lebron definitely did it.

LeBron's team was nowhere near as crappy as the Luke, Smush, KwameLakers. Cavs were not and still aren't a good offensive team. But on defense, the Cavs were pretty good. Big Z was pretty good and still one of the better centers. Larry Hughes was decent. Drew Gooden, not bad and Eric Snow was a good defender.

I can't really say much positive for Luke, Smush and Kwame. Kobe & Odom were the only worthwhile guys.