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  1. #376
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    Wow...guess I shouldn't have went to bed. Enough 12hr shifts will make that decision for you though. Good to see Mason stepping up and going clutch. He will probably need to fill Manu's shoes some in that department while he is out.

    I am really surprised at the outcome here. I agree with others that say Pop seemed to already have his mind made up. I think he sees Tolliver and Hairston as better fits for our system and that they are younger and more teachable at this point. He talked about the future in the interview and that seems to lean more that direction. I hope he is right. I feel bad for Farmer. He really played balls out throughout the preseason. I wish him the best and hopefully another team picks him up and gives him a chance...as long as that team is not in our division.

  2. #377
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I don't know how you guys equate Tolliver missing the game due to a family emergency to being a lock for the Spurs roster. Even if they wanted to see more of him in this final game they couldn't because a family emergency is a family emergency. If they already had their minds made up I don't think Tolliver not playing had anything to do with it.

    But unfortunately I do believe Tolliver and Hairston are in and Farmer is out. In my opinion he is just a victim of cir stances. Regardless if Tolliver didn't have quite as an impressive preseason as Farmer he still fills our needs better. He's a big that can help spread the floor with his shooting and also gives Duncan all the space he needs to go to the bucket. Hairston is in because he has shown he can play NBA level defense and is a more rounded player then Farmer. You know the Spurs love players who can play "D". Defense wins championships. Not only that but the fact that the Spurs have a vested interest in him working out since he was aquired through draft trades and such makes him more of a shoe in.

    So the only way Farmer could be put on the roster would be along side taking Hairston which wouldn't make any sense because the "2" position is ted enough as it is. Having Manu, Mason, Hairston, Farmer(and not to mention even Hill could play some "2") would be an overkill on smaller shooters. Its a shame though cause Farmer is really deserving of a spot and his pure shooting would be of some value to the Spurs.

    Correct me if i'm wrong but if we didn't put Hairston on our roster would he be free to sign with anyone or would we have his rights still or something?

    It would have to be a HUGE family emergency for Tolliver to miss this game unless he already knew he was on the team. But let's assume he wasn't told he was on the team - he'd be putting his family in a much worse situation by potentially not getting an NBA contract by missing the game. I can't see anyone possibly throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars over a family situation.

    As for Tolliver's shooting being the reason he should be on the team - he hasn't shown it consistently enough to assume this is a given. The best shooter was Farmer. That seems clear.

    It may not have been from a post player but I'd rather have a wing be our outside shooter than our post player. Tim needs more help inside with rebounds than a trigger happy one trick pony who camps outside. I'm sure others will disagree but I think we need a legitimate post player to go along with Tim.

    It's odd that the team preaches defense then gets seduced by these post players who are outside shooters and don't play defense. To go back to the idea that Pop is locked into finding the next Horry - it wasn't just outside shooting that made Horry special. Horry played good defense - that was his important trait. Yes, he made occasional outside shots, but that was more and more rare. By the end he was actually a horrible outside shooter but he could contribute in other ways. (Though in truth, even that was in question for long stretches of the last 2 years.)

    It's funny that Farmer gets critiqued for being a one dimensional shooter. Isn't that the exact same trait for Tolliver, with the exception being that Farmer has a long history of being a solid outside shooter and actually delivers, whereas Tolliver is more of a mystery.

    I think people underestimate or forget how Kurt Thomas is also a big who shoots from the outside. No, not all the way from the 3 point line but he was getting many open looks from about 18 feet on the baseline a few games ago. Given that we're going to play him and he isn't going anywhere considering we just signed him, I rather just roll with him as big who shoots from the outside. The fact that Tolliver shoots the 3 is more a theoretical distinction to me. Yeah, I know it's an extra point but as far as spacing it's only a few feet difference.

    This whole scenario makes no sense. I suppose if we hadn't given Finley that ridiculous contract this Summer we could have kept both Farmer and Hairston, though of course no one knew we actually have two quality players to choose from. And in fairness, to Finley he has shown up in better shape so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, even though in my opinion it was clearly time to move on from him when he became a complete liability for us last year for the majority of the season.

    Yes, I suppose there is a glut of wings ("small shooters") now but there isn't a huge separation between them. Hairston could be better than Udoka by the end of the season, and Farmer could easily be more productive than Finley by the end of the season, if not sooner.

    Ha, sorry for this rambling post. It's been a relatively interesting pre-season. We might as well wish the best for Tolliver and Hairston because that's who is going to be on the team. I think it was bad taste to make it seem like there really was a compe ion for the last spot and then keep Tolliver and Hairston away because it might look bad if they make mistakes or get outplayed. What goes on in the FO meetings must be fascinating. I can only assume there actually is an active discussion going on over decisions, but in the end the choices were predictable and obvious from a mile away.

  3. #378
    Out of the shadows lurker23's Avatar
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    It would have to be a HUGE family emergency for Tolliver to miss this game unless he already knew he was on the team. But let's assume he wasn't told he was on the team - he'd be putting his family in a much worse situation by potentially not getting an NBA contract by missing the game. I can't see anyone possibly throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars over a family situation.
    The Spurs staff has seen Tolliver play for over a dozen games now, and over a dozen practices as well. They weren't going to make their decision based solely on this single game, but rather a culmination of the entire Anthony Tolliver Experience (which I think should be his band's name if this basketball thing doesn't work out). The Spurs are a family organization, and I'm sure they encouraged Tolliver to take care of any family or personal business he may have. I don't think they'd hold it against him, and if anything they'd probably count it as a point in his favor if he chose his family first.

  4. #379
    fuk yo team clown tp2021's Avatar
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    The Spurs staff has seen Tolliver play for over a dozen games now, and over a dozen practices as well. They weren't going to make their decision based solely on this single game, but rather a culmination of the entire Anthony Tolliver Experience (which I think should be his band's name if this basketball thing doesn't work out). The Spurs are a family organization, and I'm sure they encouraged Tolliver to take care of any family or personal business he may have. I don't think they'd hold it against him, and if anything they'd probably count it as a point in his favor if he chose his family first.
    Sort of like Splitter.

  5. #380
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    i was at the game... mason showed great leadership at the end, with that three and the drive. overall it was an decent game untill 4th quarter got a lil better. i think our starters are ready for the season, but i dont know about the bench yet.

  6. #381
    fuk yo team clown tp2021's Avatar
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    i was at the game... mason showed great leadership at the end, with that three and the drive. overall it was an decent game untill 4th quarter got a lil better. i think our starters are ready for the season, but i dont know about the bench yet.
    Did Mason look good enough to be the starter when the season begins, or do you think Fin will get the nod at the 2?

  7. #382
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I don't know how you guys equate Tolliver missing the game due to a family emergency to being a lock for the Spurs roster.
    Many folks reading the tea leaves think Pop made up his mind on Tolliver some time ago. Tolliver might have been reluctant to leave if he thought he really needed to play well in this game to make the team.

    But unfortunately I do believe Tolliver and Hairston are in and Farmer is out. In my opinion he is just a victim of cir stances. Regardless if Tolliver didn't have quite as an impressive preseason as Farmer he still fills our needs better. He's a big that can help spread the floor with his shooting and also gives Duncan all the space he needs to go to the bucket.
    The only downside of that you don't spread the floor if you never make a basket. The Spurs don't really need another guy who misses outside shots, and they don't need another tall guy who plays soft defense and doesn't rebound.

  8. #383
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I can't help but say it again.... spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill
    Their stats are virtually identical, except that Hill is a far far better defender.

    Where is Mahinmi, and why wasn't he brought on board?
    He's been sitting behind the bench in a suit. He's injured.

  9. #384
    Inthe land of audiophiles angelbelow's Avatar
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    i dont regret hill, chalmers played well but i dont see much potential for improvement. im chalmers is capped at as a role player/solid back up. but i honestly believe hills potential is higher even though hes currently not as polished as chalmers is.

    my hope is that our to be coach jackie can really help hill out with the right mentality.

  10. #385
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    It would have to be a HUGE family emergency for Tolliver to miss this game unless he already knew he was on the team. But let's assume he wasn't told he was on the team - he'd be putting his family in a much worse situation by potentially not getting an NBA contract by missing the game. I can't see anyone possibly throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars over a family situation.

    As for Tolliver's shooting being the reason he should be on the team - he hasn't shown it consistently enough to assume this is a given. The best shooter was Farmer. That seems clear.

    It may not have been from a post player but I'd rather have a wing be our outside shooter than our post player. Tim needs more help inside with rebounds than a trigger happy one trick pony who camps outside. I'm sure others will disagree but I think we need a legitimate post player to go along with Tim.

    It's odd that the team preaches defense then gets seduced by these post players who are outside shooters and don't play defense. To go back to the idea that Pop is locked into finding the next Horry - it wasn't just outside shooting that made Horry special. Horry played good defense - that was his important trait. Yes, he made occasional outside shots, but that was more and more rare. By the end he was actually a horrible outside shooter but he could contribute in other ways. (Though in truth, even that was in question for long stretches of the last 2 years.)

    It's funny that Farmer gets critiqued for being a one dimensional shooter. Isn't that the exact same trait for Tolliver, with the exception being that Farmer has a long history of being a solid outside shooter and actually delivers, whereas Tolliver is more of a mystery.

    I think people underestimate or forget how Kurt Thomas is also a big who shoots from the outside. No, not all the way from the 3 point line but he was getting many open looks from about 18 feet on the baseline a few games ago. Given that we're going to play him and he isn't going anywhere considering we just signed him, I rather just roll with him as big who shoots from the outside. The fact that Tolliver shoots the 3 is more a theoretical distinction to me. Yeah, I know it's an extra point but as far as spacing it's only a few feet difference.

    This whole scenario makes no sense. I suppose if we hadn't given Finley that ridiculous contract this Summer we could have kept both Farmer and Hairston, though of course no one knew we actually have two quality players to choose from. And in fairness, to Finley he has shown up in better shape so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, even though in my opinion it was clearly time to move on from him when he became a complete liability for us last year for the majority of the season.

    Yes, I suppose there is a glut of wings ("small shooters") now but there isn't a huge separation between them. Hairston could be better than Udoka by the end of the season, and Farmer could easily be more productive than Finley by the end of the season, if not sooner.

    Ha, sorry for this rambling post. It's been a relatively interesting pre-season. We might as well wish the best for Tolliver and Hairston because that's who is going to be on the team. I think it was bad taste to make it seem like there really was a compe ion for the last spot and then keep Tolliver and Hairston away because it might look bad if they make mistakes or get outplayed. What goes on in the FO meetings must be fascinating. I can only assume there actually is an active discussion going on over decisions, but in the end the choices were predictable and obvious from a mile away.
    Great post. I was saying earlier about the Spurs seeing Tolliver and Hairston since SL so I don't think they needed to play them. Pop knows what both of those guys can do by now. He's seen enough so one more game probably wasn't going to change Pop's opinion about those two players.

    I really do not think it's guaranteed that Farmer has been cut just because he played last night. Maybe it's the opposite and Pop made up his mind on Farmer making the team? Since he hasn't seen as much of Farmer like he has of the others, maybe he wanted to give him one more run to be sure.

    I also agree with your Horry bit. Pop seems to be looking at the shooting aspect of these guys. Horry did way more than just shoot. He needs to stop getting these one dimensional scrubs to try and replace Horry. That is an insult to Robert Horry. He's passing up better players like Scola for one dimensional scrubs like Bonner. If you want one dimensional shooter look at getting them at the SF or SG pos ions. We need big men that can play like big men. Grab rebounds, play defense and score some inside.

    Having said that if Bonner is on the team I hope he does well as we really need him to get it, and start playing well, step up like Tim said.
    Last edited by Ice009; 10-25-2008 at 07:09 PM.

  11. #386
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    I love Hill's defense so far. That gets me just as excited or even more so than offense.

  12. #387
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I love Hill's defense so far. That gets me just as excited or even more so than offense.
    Hill, Hairston and Gist is looking like an all-defensive trifecta for the Spurs.

  13. #388
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    In another thread someone suggested Tolliver's mother passed away. Any truth to the claim?

  14. #389
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    In another thread someone suggested Tolliver's mother passed away. Any truth to the claim?
    I don't see why someone would lied about that.

  15. #390
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    I don't see why someone would lied about that.
    Agree. But it was the person's first post. Don't know whether they can be trusted.

  16. #391
    Inthe land of audiophiles angelbelow's Avatar
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    In another thread someone suggested Tolliver's mother passed away. Any truth to the claim?
    if thats true.. then best wishes to him and i hope everything is ok.

  17. #392
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    Agree. But it was the person's first post. Don't know whether they can be trusted.
    I don't see someone registering just to make a that bad taste joke. Saying that, everything is possible...
    IMO, he is someone who know Tolliver and was upset about people "blaming" Tolliver for missing the game.

    Very sad news. Life is full of that.

  18. #393
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    The funny thing is, I don't recall anyone "blaming" Tolliver for anything. I certainly didn't see any reason for someone to call people assholes in their only post. It's probably a family member who did a search to make sure we weren't bad mouthing Anthony, which is understandable.

    If what that poster said is true, my certainty of Tolliver's making the team just doubled.

  19. #394
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    The funny thing is, I don't recall anyone "blaming" Tolliver for anything.
    Note the quote I've used around blaming.
    In all likelihood, his/her friend has lost his mother. I'm sure you could understand that he/she is very sensitive about that.
    Last edited by Bruno; 10-25-2008 at 08:48 PM.

  20. #395
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Note the quote I've used around blaming.
    In all likelihood, his/her friend has lost his mother. I'm sure you could understand that he/she is very sensitive about that.
    Right, I understand. My point is that I haven't seen anyone take a personal shot at any of the three guys who are fighting for a job. The only joke anyone made when we found out that Tolliver wasn't at the game was to suggest that he was busy packing to move to San Antonio because he made the team.

    Besides, if that person is so sensitive, maybe a message board isn't the best place for them right now, particularly if they can't keep from calling people "assholes" without any justification whatsoever.

  21. #396
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    It is true about Tollivers mother. This just posted in the Omaha World Herald http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836

  22. #397
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    He made the team.

    Her death came on the same day that Tolliver, a former Creighton star, officially learned that he made the San Antonio Spurs' roster.

  23. #398
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It is true about Tollivers mother. This just posted in the Omaha World Herald http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836
    My condolences to Anthony and his family.
    Maybe the moderators want to open a new thread to offer support for him in these difficult times?

  24. #399
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    That's heartbreaking. What should have been the happiest day of his life.

  25. #400
    Silence surpasses speech. duncan228's Avatar
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    It is true about Tollivers mother. This just posted in the Omaha World Herald http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836
    That's so sad. My thoughts are with him and his family.

    Here's the article:

    NBA: Basketball dream on hold for Tolliver after mother's death
    BY STEVEN PIVOVAR
    WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER

    Creighton coach Dana Altman recalls Donna Lewis bubbling with pride in July as they watched her son, Anthony Tolliver, play in a professional summer basketball league in Las Vegas.

    "We watched two games together," Altman said. "She was so excited for Anthony. She had just retired, and she had planned to spend time following Anthony, whether he was in the NBA or playing overseas."

    Lewis won't get that opportunity as she died Thursday of an apparent heart attack in Springfield, Mo. She was 56.

    Her death came on the same day that Tolliver, a former Creighton star, officially learned that he made the San Antonio Spurs' roster.

    Tolliver was practicing with the Spurs on Thursday when informed of his mother's death. He left the team to return to Springfield to be with his family.

    "Anthony's devastated," said Larry Fox, Tolliver's agent. "I've talked to him but what can you say? There are no magical words that you can say that can make this make sense.

    "I got to know his mother, and she was one of the nicest ladies you'd ever meet. She was well-respected in the community. I spoke with her regularly, and I could hear the pride in her voice whenever she talked about Anthony."

    Fox said the Spurs, who open the regular season this week, have given Tolliver a leave of absence.

    "They've been very classy," Fox said. "They called right away to ask what needs to be done. They said they were willing to help Anthony any way possible. They're going to give him whatever time he needs to get through this. They're not even thinking about the basketball part of it.

    "It's going to be hard. She was a very special lady, and Anthony was very, very close to her. I'm just glad she got a chance to see what a man her son had become and how he had accomplished some of his goals."

    Tolliver signed as a free agent with the Spurs last summer after impressing the team with his summer-league play. Tolliver was an All-Missouri Valley Conference selection in 2007 who originally signed with the Cleveland Cavaliers. He made the team's opening day roster last fall but was waived shortly before the first game.

    He played last season with Des Moines of the NBA's Development League and in Germany.

    Tolliver was the youngest of seven children raised by Lewis, a single parent. A teacher, Lewis instilled the value of education in her children. That figured heavily into Tolliver winding up at Creighton, Altman and Athletic Director Bruce Rasmussen said.

    "We got a big assist from her in getting Anthony here," Altman said. "She was in our corner. As an educator, she really thought that Creighton, with its academic reputation, was the place for Anthony. She was a very strong lady, and she was very supportive of Anthony, our school and our program."

    Tolliver struggled in his first two seasons, playing sparingly as a freshman and inconsistently as a sop re.

    "His struggles were well-chronicled, and there were times when Anthony probably thought about leaving," Rasmussen said. "His mom wouldn't have let him. She always said that Creighton was the school for him. She was always very supportive of Creighton and him being here."

    Rasmussen said Tolliver had a special relationship with his mother.

    "I know Anthony was very, very close to his mom," Rasmussen said. "When we're on the road, most guys get on their cell phones after a game to call their girlfriends or friends. Anthony typically was on the phone with his mom.

    "I always sensed that Anthony's mom was his best friend and he was his mom's best friend. That's the kind of relationship they had. She wanted the best for Anthony. She was very supportive and had a very strong influence on him."

    That influence will help Tolliver get through this tragedy, Altman said.

    "This would be hard on anyone, but knowing how close the two of them were, it's going to be especially tough," Altman said. "He was devastated but I also know Anthony is a tough, young man. He's a man of faith. He'll bounce back."

    Other survivors include Tolliver's sisters, Leslie, RaVonda, Angela, JaVonna and Suzie and brother Armani. Arrangements are pending.

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