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Agreed, that's what I've been saying all along.
It's all postulation, we're just gonna have to sit and wait but some would rather be prophets.
They said it, not I.
Do you believe that individual awards are greater than rings?
Agreed, that's what I've been saying all along.
It's all postulation, we're just gonna have to sit and wait but some would rather be prophets.
LOL, Dude in this era of no touching star players until they are basically at the hoop MJ would have scored 120 if he wanted too. He bombed the Celtics in the playoffs for 63 once. Yeah the Bird Celtics i mean...
I'll give you this much. You at least present real arguments without resorting to crap-flinging.Agreed, that's what I've been saying all along.
It's all postulation, we're just gonna have to sit and wait but some would rather be prophets.
No touching versus no-Zone. That will always be debated as to which is easier to operate in.
I'll give you this much. You at least present real arguments without resorting to crap-flinging.
That video makes me wet.
What does a zone do that the Jordan Rules didn't? Before zones were legal, you could still double and triple team a guy as soon as he had the ball.
I agree. It's actually nice to have a silly debate without getting too far into name calling or just trading insults. I'm sure if a Mavericks player were involved in this conversation the word got would have been thrown around about a hundred times by now.I'll give you this much. You at least present real arguments without resorting to crap-flinging.
I agree. It's actually nice to have a silly debate without getting too far into name calling or just trading insults. I'm sure if a Mavericks player were involved in this conversation the word got would have been thrown around about a hundred times by now.
I'm inclined to start a Diop vs. Russell thread to test this theory out...
no but it serves as a witness to how much a player did in obtaining said rings... how much a player means to the success of his team. this is one way to differentiate the horrys from the duncans.
Yes, but you couldn't pack the lanes like you can do now. It's not just me with this argument, coaches, analysts always debate this.
It's great to be a scoring leader but I think it's more important to win. Duncan and Allen Iverson are the prime examples of this. I think the MVP is a more valuable award.
It is a silly debate, but it's pre-season, I suggest if this thread is still going by opening night, it ends there until summer, when one of us will probably bump it depending on the outcomeI agree. It's actually nice to have a silly debate without getting too far into name calling or just trading insults. I'm sure if a Mavericks player were involved in this conversation the word got would have been thrown around about a hundred times by now.
Well, to be honest, I hear people say it a lot, but nobody really debates it. I've never seen a convincing case made to support the assertion that many just repeat. I'm also not sure how packing the lane was going to stop Jordan. He had as much range as anyone in the NBA, even today, plus he added a turnaround jumper at some point that nobody could defend. I really think the hand checking rules would have made him impossible to guard, zone or no.
Yeah, that's probably right. There just isn't enough to get excited about right now otherwise.It is a silly debate, but it's pre-season, I suggest if this thread is still going by opening night, it ends there until summer, when one of us will probably bump it depending on the outcome
So why are rings such an important accomplishment when comparing players? They just prove that you are part of a great team, especially when you are obviously not the lead man on your team.
And having ONE ring is just the same as say ... having 5. So Jordan was voted as the best player over 5 seasons, and Kobe only one (then led his team to a historical collapse in the finals), and that has no bearing at all.
So? Like you said, it just proves that he belongs to great teams, what is the significance?
So having 1 MVP is enough? Dirk has 1 MVP? He wasn't fortunate enough to have played with SHaq in his career, why should he be penalized for not whining his way out of his team like Kobe did to CHarlotte?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Jordan would not be GOAT without his 6 rings.
Jordan had the benefit of finishing his career, Kobe still has not so it's not logical to compare Jordan's full body of work to Kobe's.And having ONE ring is just the same as say ... having 5. So Jordan was voted as the best player over 5 seasons, and Kobe only one (then led his team to a historical collapse in the finals), and that has no bearing at all.
I never said that.So? Like you said, it just proves that he belongs to great teams
Dirk's 1 MVP is a good start for gettting into the conversation, now he just needs to get 3 more rings before age 30 and we can start talking about Dirk vs Jordan.So having 1 MVP is enough? Dirk has 1 MVP? He wasn't fortunate enough to have played with SHaq in his career, why should he be penalized for not whining his way out of his team like Kobe did to CHarlotte?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Jordan would not be GOAT without leading his team to 6 rings. Of course, on top of that, there were those ridiculous stats, great performances in the clutch, not quitting on his team, leading the league in scoring 10 times, winning DPoY, All-NBA 1st teams, All-NBA 1st D teams, excelling in every aspect of the game, leading the league in steals.
You expect Kobe to win 4 more MVPs when he had only 1 at the age of 29, after 12 years in the league? While this is not impossible, it is improbable and still means that Kobe is not comparable to Jordan at this stage of their respective careers.
Again, do your own work, let me know the stats and accomplishments (both team and individual) of the two players.
Oh yes, winning Finals MVP was only showing that a player was great in 4 games, those teams just magically appear in the finals because the player who won Finals MVP sucked in the other 12 (or 11, or 8, depending on era).
Why penalize Dirk for him being on a crappy team?
Glad you agree that comparing Garnett to Barkley and Malone is laughter inducing.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Come to think of it, you never addressed the issue of the 3pt shooting between the two, where Jordan shot less because of the era in which he lived in, nor did you address the point where Jordan scored more points in an era of low scoring than Kobe in an era of high scoring. (Not to mention that it was YOU who said the 90's score significantly less points than the 00's)
I did address this, I said Jordan was not as skilled in shooting 3s as Kobe, he was more comfortable in the mid-range. Jordan did not have as much range as Kobe. Jordan's range was about 18 foot, Kobe's range is about 25 feet.
As far as I know, this was never brought up.nor did you address the point where Jordan scored more points in an era of low scoring than Kobe in an era of high scoring.
I did say that scoring was less in the 90's as opposed to the scoring in the 00's. The league has transitioned to a more up tempo game.(Not to mention that it was YOU who said the 90's score significantly less points than the 00's)
Yes, all of the individual honors helps his GOAT status, the rings are at the top of the list. Kobe probably will not match up in awards but in rings, he might.
At the same age, Jordan had 2 MVPs, 1 more than Kobe. However, Kobe has 3 rings compared to Jordan's 2 at the time. I believe that's pretty close.You expect Kobe to win 4 more MVPs when he had only 1 at the age of 29, after 12 years in the league? While this is not impossible, it is improbable and still means that Kobe is not comparable to Jordan at this stage of their respective careers.
Again, do your own work, let me know the stats and accomplishments (both team and individual) of the two players.
Who knows who was great in the other 12, it varies depending on series. The Finals MVP is performance based solely on the Finals.Oh yes, winning Finals MVP was only showing that a player was great in 4 games, those teams just magically appear in the finals because the player who won Finals MVP sucked in the other 12 (or 11, or 8, depending on era).
You yourself said Kobe hasn't won anything since Shaq left. Look at Kobe's crappy team which was 100x crappier than Dirk's. You penalized Kobe easily but for your argument, you want to give Dirk a free pass.Why penalize Dirk for him being on a crappy team?
Nope, I didn't agree, just felt like laughing arbitrarily like you. I think by the time KG is done, he'll be mentioned along with Barkley and Malone right behind Duncan. If you think about it, Duncan is already the best power forward of all time and he's compared with Duncan all the time. If KG's compared to the best, why couldn't he compare with the other runner-ups?Glad you agree that comparing Garnett to Barkley and Malone is laughter inducing.
Last edited by Allanon; 10-26-2008 at 02:56 PM.
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