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You think Palin still is likeable as she was at first Whottt?
Whottt name the bet.
Also, which demographics will be disproportionally represented in increased turnout this year?
You think Palin still is likeable as she was at first Whottt?
I'll give you a hint Whottt. Look for the states with the highest African American population and then find me the states which have the largest increases in early voting turnout compared to 2004.
Yeah I see since you put it that way....
Absolutely...in fact moreso. The more the media smears her the more I like her...and I'm not the only one.
Remember when you guys were predicting she'd drop out?
I never said that. I don't think I did anyway...
I did like her on SNL though.....
Who said that? Oh and your view of reality regarding Palin is incredible as always.
My bad...since ya'll usually are you'll have to forgive me.
It was here on the forum...you don't remember it?
Who the do you think you're kidding? The way ya'll attack her non-stop is the purest indicator of how much you fear her.
And do you mean my view that she pulls mega ass ratings and rally turnouts(without bussing them in) while liberal strongholds like MSNBS and the New York Times are on the vege of going out of business?
You can ignore that McCain's own people hate her now - "Whack Job" is the latest compliment they've bestowed upon her and that the top of her ticket even snubs her. You can also ignore she's got the lowest ratings out of all 4 of the people on the ticket.
Sure, she gets a lot of people from her base to come out. That's just dandy. If the NYT goes out of business soon I"ll eat lots of crow, but we both know thats not going ot happen so why are you making stupid assertions like that?
See LJ, this is exactly what I mean about throwing against the wall and hoping it sticks.
If it was here on the forum link it. And name the bet in regards to what you said above.
Oh and answer my question on early voting turnout. You haven't dug enough graves tonight I'd like for you to dig one more.
LOL, I told you guys he was in the denial state... I mean, this a flat out not acknowledging reality.
Total, or PCT?
Look up the PCT and populations of African Americans in states was one of the first things I did when the polls started going crazy actually...I can't recall all the details but I wasn't worried about it except in I believe North Carolina.
I'd been looking at those PCT's all day when I decided the West Virginia polling numbers were a joke...I believe I posted in this thread that day IIRC.
Put it this way...if you are counting on African American turnout to win some of the states Obama is winning inthe polling right now..you are going to be disappointed.
If total is your logic Texas should be going blue...especially when the hispanic vote is considered...are you ready to make the prediction?
Regardless of what you may think...Kerry allegedly pulled an all time high in youth and minority turnout...didn't win him the election...and you know, what no one ever mentions is that youth turnout increase was based almost entirely on African American and Latino turnout...white youth actually decreased IIRC...
That's going to happen again...and a lot of young women like Sarah Palin, plus an estimated 6 million Hillary Democrats are expected to go to McCain, and many more are expected not to vote.
You want to talk about early voting turnout?and then find me the states which have the largest increases in early voting turnout compared to 2004.
BBIAB, need to reboot and throw some laundry in the wash.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...eth.4630318.jp
Published Date: 26 October 2008
By Claire Prentice
THE gutsy, moose-shooting, tax- cutting hockey mom was supposed to be the answer to Republican prayers. But with just nine days to go until the election, 'Palin power' has turned into a nuclear meltdown for John McCain with an opinion poll showing vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin to be more of a liability to his campaign than George W Bush.
As falls from grace go this one has been savage and sudden. After her barnstorming performance at the Republican National Convention in September, Governor Palin was hailed as a right-wing heroine. But the honeymoon period officially ended last week with a series of controversies and gaffes, leading senior conservatives to call for her to leave before the election. (I guess they're all posting on ST) Palin faced problems on the national stage and in her own Alaskan backyard. A series of investigations shed doubts on the way she ran her home state as Governor. On Friday she gave a deposition to the second Troopergate investigation over whether Governor Palin pursued a family vendetta against state trooper Mike Wooten. A first investigation found that Palin abused the powers of her office by firing the state's top public safety official.
Potentially more damaging, the woman who has championed her credentials as a thrifty governor has been accused of fiddling her expenses and taking extravagant family trips at taxpayers' expense.
An investigation by the Associated Press last week found evidence that as governor, Palin used taxpayers' money for her children to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited. The expenses included $21,000 (£13,000) in flights for her daughters including one trip to watch their father in a snowmobile race. On another occasion, Palin claimed for a trip to New York, where she had been invited to attend a five-hour conference but stayed with her daughter, 17-year-old Bristol, for four nights in a luxury hotel costing $700 (£440) per night.
After McCain selected her as his running mate Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters' travel, adding phrases such as "First Family attending" and "First Family invited" to explain the girls' attendance.
The state is already reviewing nearly $17,000 (£11,000) in per-diem payments to Palin for more than 300 nights she slept at her own home, 40 miles from her satellite office in Anchorage.
Palin's problems were compounded with allegations of cronyism. On Friday a report revealed when Palin was elected Governor of Alaska she gave 100-plus jobs to friends and campaign donors, sometimes without apparent regard to qualifications. A state spokesperson refuted the claims, saying: "We are always seeking the best-qualified folks."
Some commentators questioned whether Palin was qualified to be vice president after an embarrassing TV interview last week. In response to a question posed by a primary school pupil, Palin seemed confused about the powers of the vice president. In the interview she said the VP was in charge of the senate, a novel interpretation of the US cons ution which had some political commentators openly mocking her. Republicans said Palin was trying to simplify her description to make it understandable for children.
The clip has been played on a loop on cable TV stations and on the internet. So have separate comments, made during an appearance in North Carolina, that there are some parts of the country that are "pro-America." A number of commentators took this to suggest that Democrat voters were not "real Americans" and that America could be divided into "real America" (the Republican heartlands) and not-real, or unpatriotic America (blue states like New York and California). Palin has since issued an apology.
These public gaffes seem to have impacted on the McCain campaign. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll last week suggested Palin is more damaging to McCain's chances of becoming president than President George W Bush, whose national approval ratings are in the 20s.
In an interview with the Chicago Tribune, Palin disputed such conclusions, and said: "I think those reporters asking those questions should come to some of our rallies and ask some of those in the crowd why it is they are enthused." She added that the crowds see her as representing "hardworking, everyday American families".
But though Palin undoubtedly excites the Republican grass roots, several high-profile conservative commentators have publicly expressed grave doubts about her. They include New York Times columnist David Brooks and Kathleen Parker in the National Review, who wrote an article under the heading 'She's Out of Her League' in which she called for Palin to step down for the sake of her country. Brooks called Palin "a fatal cancer on the Republican Party".
One party insider, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said, "There are many people in the party who wish she would go back to Alaska. McCain picked her. If he loses, he only has himself to blame."
The Palin meltdown comes as high-profile Republicans follow in the footsteps of former secretary of state Colin Powell, who announced he is crossing party lines to back Democrat Barack Obama. The 'Obamicans' – as the Republicans backing Obama are called – even have their own website www.republicansforobama.org.
Further good news for the Obama campaign came in the NBC/Wall Street Journal's finding that women, especially women under age 50, have become increasingly critical of Palin – 60% now express an unfavourable view of her, up from 36% in mid-September.
With the latest polls showing Obama with a lead of between 8% and 14% over his Republican opponent, it is McCain who is badly in need of good news. Only a Washington University poll bucked this trend, putting Obama at 44% to McCain at 43%.
McCain did his best to brush off the negative publicity that has surrounded his choice for vice president in recent days. Appearing on Don Imus' radio talk show, McCain said he was "entertained by the elitist at ude" toward Palin and attributed criticism of his running mate to the fact that she was not part of the "Georgetown tail party" circuit – a reference to the well-heeled Washington suburb where many of the political elite live. (though with the $150K spent on clothing she can certainly dress the part) "I think she's most qualified of any that has run recently for vice president, tell you the truth," McCain said, citing her experience as a small-town mayor and Alaska governor. "She has ignited our crowds. She has a wonderful family, a great husband, great values and she shares my world view."
The campaign has continued to deploy the Alaska governor in some of the most compe ive areas of the country. But despite her ability to draw large enthusiastic crowds who cite her appeal as "an ordinary American" and an "anti-elitist", there is little sign that Palin has expanded her appeal beyond the Republican base.
Republican pollster David Winston said the party was at fault for not using Palin more effectively to reach out to undecided voters. "They should have her talking about the economy, talking about her experience when it comes to energy, and appealing to independent women and middle-income voters. She's taken the base of the Republican Party and got them excited but she hasn't done much in terms of winning over swing voters. It's a difficult task and there's not much time left."
That task may not have been made any easier by the revelation that the woman who has presented herself as "Joanna six-pack" was bought $150,000 (£94,000) of designer clothes by the Republican Party.
McCain said on Thursday that Palin needed new clothes when she first came to work for him, adding that they would be donated to charity after the November 4 election. "If people only knew how frugal we are,"
Misfortune has also played a role. This weekend she was booed by St Louis Blues hockey fans when she dropped the ceremonial first puck during a Friday night game – the Blues goalie strained a left hip muscle after slipping on the carpet placed on the ice for Palin.
But if the woman herself has had a bad week, one Sarah Palin is hugely popular: the one portrayed by comedian Tina Fey on TV's Saturday Night Live with the catch-phrase, "I can see Russia from my house". Palin appeared with Fey on SNL last weekend and boosted the weekly satirical show to its highest audience figures in 17 years by jiving her way through a Palin rap featuring the antics of an on-stage moose.
If the politician dubbed "caribou Barbie" finds herself looking for a job after November 4 there should be no shortage of offers. Producers and agents are discussing vehicles ranging from an Oprah-style talk show to a right-wing political chat show. "Any television person who sees the numbers when she appears on anything would say Sarah Palin would be great," said a veteran morning-show producer. Either way, Palin will not disappear into the Alaskan wilderness. Some insiders suggest she will seek the Republican nomination for president in 2012.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...eth.4630318.jp
Published Date: 26 October 2008
By Claire Prentice
THE gutsy, moose-shooting, tax- cutting hockey mom was supposed to be the answer to Republican prayers. But with just nine days to go until the election, 'Palin power' has turned into a nuclear meltdown for John McCain with an opinion poll showing vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin to be more of a liability to his campaign than George W Bush.
As falls from grace go this one has been savage and sudden. After her barnstorming performance at the Republican National Convention in September, Governor Palin was hailed as a right-wing heroine. But the honeymoon period officially ended last week with a series of controversies and gaffes, leading senior conservatives to call for her to leave before the election. (I guess they're all posting on ST) Palin faced problems on the national stage and in her own Alaskan backyard. A series of investigations shed doubts on the way she ran her home state as Governor. On Friday she gave a deposition to the second Troopergate investigation over whether Governor Palin pursued a family vendetta against state trooper Mike Wooten. A first investigation found that Palin abused the powers of her office by firing the state's top public safety official.
Potentially more damaging, the woman who has championed her credentials as a thrifty governor has been accused of fiddling her expenses and taking extravagant family trips at taxpayers' expense.
An investigation by the Associated Press last week found evidence that as governor, Palin used taxpayers' money for her children to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited. The expenses included $21,000 (£13,000) in flights for her daughters including one trip to watch their father in a snowmobile race. On another occasion, Palin claimed for a trip to New York, where she had been invited to attend a five-hour conference but stayed with her daughter, 17-year-old Bristol, for four nights in a luxury hotel costing $700 (£440) per night.
After McCain selected her as his running mate Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters' travel, adding phrases such as "First Family attending" and "First Family invited" to explain the girls' attendance.
The state is already reviewing nearly $17,000 (£11,000) in per-diem payments to Palin for more than 300 nights she slept at her own home, 40 miles from her satellite office in Anchorage.
Palin's problems were compounded with allegations of cronyism. On Friday a report revealed when Palin was elected Governor of Alaska she gave 100-plus jobs to friends and campaign donors, sometimes without apparent regard to qualifications. A state spokesperson refuted the claims, saying: "We are always seeking the best-qualified folks."
Some commentators questioned whether Palin was qualified to be vice president after an embarrassing TV interview last week. In response to a question posed by a primary school pupil, Palin seemed confused about the powers of the vice president. In the interview she said the VP was in charge of the senate, a novel interpretation of the US cons ution which had some political commentators openly mocking her. Republicans said Palin was trying to simplify her description to make it understandable for children.
The clip has been played on a loop on cable TV stations and on the internet. So have separate comments, made during an appearance in North Carolina, that there are some parts of the country that are "pro-America." A number of commentators took this to suggest that Democrat voters were not "real Americans" and that America could be divided into "real America" (the Republican heartlands) and not-real, or unpatriotic America (blue states like New York and California). Palin has since issued an apology.
These public gaffes seem to have impacted on the McCain campaign. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll last week suggested Palin is more damaging to McCain's chances of becoming president than President George W Bush, whose national approval ratings are in the 20s.
In an interview with the Chicago Tribune, Palin disputed such conclusions, and said: "I think those reporters asking those questions should come to some of our rallies and ask some of those in the crowd why it is they are enthused." She added that the crowds see her as representing "hardworking, everyday American families".
But though Palin undoubtedly excites the Republican grass roots, several high-profile conservative commentators have publicly expressed grave doubts about her. They include New York Times columnist David Brooks and Kathleen Parker in the National Review, who wrote an article under the heading 'She's Out of Her League' in which she called for Palin to step down for the sake of her country. Brooks called Palin "a fatal cancer on the Republican Party".
One party insider, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said, "There are many people in the party who wish she would go back to Alaska. McCain picked her. If he loses, he only has himself to blame."
The Palin meltdown comes as high-profile Republicans follow in the footsteps of former secretary of state Colin Powell, who announced he is crossing party lines to back Democrat Barack Obama. The 'Obamicans' – as the Republicans backing Obama are called – even have their own website www.republicansforobama.org.
Further good news for the Obama campaign came in the NBC/Wall Street Journal's finding that women, especially women under age 50, have become increasingly critical of Palin – 60% now express an unfavourable view of her, up from 36% in mid-September.
With the latest polls showing Obama with a lead of between 8% and 14% over his Republican opponent, it is McCain who is badly in need of good news. Only a Washington University poll bucked this trend, putting Obama at 44% to McCain at 43%.
McCain did his best to brush off the negative publicity that has surrounded his choice for vice president in recent days. Appearing on Don Imus' radio talk show, McCain said he was "entertained by the elitist at ude" toward Palin and attributed criticism of his running mate to the fact that she was not part of the "Georgetown tail party" circuit – a reference to the well-heeled Washington suburb where many of the political elite live. (though with the $150K spent on clothing she can certainly dress the part) "I think she's most qualified of any that has run recently for vice president, tell you the truth," McCain said, citing her experience as a small-town mayor and Alaska governor. "She has ignited our crowds. She has a wonderful family, a great husband, great values and she shares my world view."
The campaign has continued to deploy the Alaska governor in some of the most compe ive areas of the country. But despite her ability to draw large enthusiastic crowds who cite her appeal as "an ordinary American" and an "anti-elitist", there is little sign that Palin has expanded her appeal beyond the Republican base.
Republican pollster David Winston said the party was at fault for not using Palin more effectively to reach out to undecided voters. "They should have her talking about the economy, talking about her experience when it comes to energy, and appealing to independent women and middle-income voters. She's taken the base of the Republican Party and got them excited but she hasn't done much in terms of winning over swing voters. It's a difficult task and there's not much time left."
That task may not have been made any easier by the revelation that the woman who has presented herself as "Joanna six-pack" was bought $150,000 (£94,000) of designer clothes by the Republican Party.
McCain said on Thursday that Palin needed new clothes when she first came to work for him, adding that they would be donated to charity after the November 4 election. "If people only knew how frugal we are,"
Misfortune has also played a role. This weekend she was booed by St Louis Blues hockey fans when she dropped the ceremonial first puck during a Friday night game – the Blues goalie strained a left hip muscle after slipping on the carpet placed on the ice for Palin.
But if the woman herself has had a bad week, one Sarah Palin is hugely popular: the one portrayed by comedian Tina Fey on TV's Saturday Night Live with the catch-phrase, "I can see Russia from my house". Palin appeared with Fey on SNL last weekend and boosted the weekly satirical show to its highest audience figures in 17 years by jiving her way through a Palin rap featuring the antics of an on-stage moose.
If the politician dubbed "caribou Barbie" finds herself looking for a job after November 4 there should be no shortage of offers. Producers and agents are discussing vehicles ranging from an Oprah-style talk show to a right-wing political chat show. "Any television person who sees the numbers when she appears on anything would say Sarah Palin would be great," said a veteran morning-show producer. Either way, Palin will not disappear into the Alaskan wilderness. Some insiders suggest she will seek the Republican nomination for president in 2012.
Here ya go florige...this is exactly the type of bull I am talking about
Out of curiosity whottt, what are the proofs that those bolded items in the article are untrue?
What are the proofs they are true?
boom:
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html
and boom:
http://elections.gmu.edu/early_vote_2008.html
According to Manny logic Lousiana is going Blue..
Hint that.
BTW, Texas has the second largest % minority population in the United States I believe, next to California whose Asian population puts it number one(and who will they be voting for anyway?)...due to the two demographics you mentioned...you ready to call Texas blue as well?
Should have rephrased that, I guess.
What I was trying to get at was that the first side who can provide proof as to the validity or not of those assertions should be able to put all of this sniping and ad-hominem arguments to rest.
I've had it with you Whottt. I've thought in the past you were actually capable of intellectual discourse, but everything you've posted during this late election season has proved to be otherwise. Why is it so hard for you to look at actual facts and discuss them honestly instead of continuously playing a stupid spin game? Whether its failure to acknowledge numerical evidence in countless shapes and forms or making comparisons that are in no way shape or form analougus to one another you're always coming up with some bull that simply makes no ing sense. Its gotten to the point where no one here gives you credit for being anything other than a blind partisian idiot yet every post you make is nothing more than a complaint about how poorly your beloved Palin is treated or how idiotic the posters of this board are when you can't even be bothered to read a ing chart correctly before blowing your wad. Its just re ed as and you've quickly reached the depts of bouton's level posting. You're not even as good as NBADan anymore and that should tell you how sad things are.
Anyway, that was my rant, but lets take a look at the idiocy of your most recent post in this thread.
I've asked you several times in this thread a very simple question: What will be the demographic breakdown of an electorate with an increased turnout that would supposedly support a better outcome for McCain and several times you've either completely avoided the question or given me a ridiculous answer. I never said a damn thing about Lousianan or Texas going blue yet instead of answering the question I posed you choose to attribute stupid assertions to me that I've never made because you know god damn well there is no way to spin that in states like Georgia and North CArolina where we're seeing huge early voting turnout when compared to 2004 we're seeing that turnout made up dispraportionatly by African Americans.
If African Americans end up making up an extra 2% of the electorate in key states thats virtually 2% that Obama gets almost entirely due to how strongly they support him. Considering that in certain states African Americans are voting at 2-3x the rate in 2004 a modest 20% increase in the electorates turnout is far from impossible and actually quite conservative. This is something that polls aren't even taking into account and when you consider that Obama is already leading these polls I'm just curious as to how McCain is going to overcome an even bigger hurdled presented by increased turnout?
Now, are you capable of actually providing reasoning for what you are thinking or are you simply going to go through another bull post where you proclaim that Mannylogic dictates Mars is going to go blue?
Well some are undisputed fact. The amount of money the RNC spent on her wardrobe and the amount of money paid to her makeup artist and where that salary ranked within the campaign are indisputable.
There are many quotes coming directly from the McCain campaign that show just how much they don't like her. I'm not sure what you make of a senior campaign official calling her a "Whack Job" but I'm not sure even you can spin that as a good thing. It is also undeniable that opinion polls now show the public's view of her is not one to be proud of. I'm 99% sure you're simply going to claim these polls are off but there have been several polls out there showing the same thing.
You can always fall back on your claim that she's drawing huge crowds but that doesn't not say anything other than she's managed to have a positive influence on the GOP base (A base which happens to be smaller in this election). She's not attracting independents and she's also not on the top of the ticket which is where people ultimately vote.
Important Conservatives who have denied McCain support due at least in part to the pick of Sarah Palin as VP:
Chuck Hagel
Kathleen Parker
David Frum
Matthew Dowd
Charles Fried
Peggy Noonan
Arne Carlson
Scott McClellan
Christopher Buckley
George Will
Ken Addleman
Joshua Trevino
Christopher Hitchens
Oh yeah, Collin Powell
Yeah, Palin really knows how to reach out to the real conservatives. I'll take George Will's opinion on anything anyday before I reach out to the some dumb at a Palin rally. ing Anti-Americans.
Last edited by MannyIsGod; 10-29-2008 at 04:13 AM.
You forgot the "boom" when taking out that smack bat.
To add further to the early voting turnout, this is something that Obama's ground game is going to have a huge effect on. This is a place where the ground game is literally creating votes where there have not been votes in the past. I know because I've witnessed it time and time and time again when I've been canvassing in an effort to get the vote out.
In New Mexico you come across people who have never voted in the past and you not only get them to vote early, you get them to vote on the very day you speak to them. All it takes for many of them is a nudge, but the Obama ground game is literally hounding people worse than a bill collector trying to get them out. You get them to confirm a date they're going to vote and then you follow up with them until they do. Both in NM and OH I spoke with several people who left almost immediatly after I spoke with them to the polls. And the numbers coming out of these places absolutely affirm this.
You forgot the "boom" when taking out that smack bat.
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