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All fair points except #5.
McCain is ardently against torture, period.
1. Bush doctrine of preventive war.
"Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb. bomb, Iran". Yeah, this doctrine has worked out so well for us. McCain's "joke" and his belligerence on Russia would indicate this continuing. Amazingly, Iraq is a non-issue because they are going to kick us out.
2. Division of the US into pro- and anti-America.
I am so tired of the traitor card.
3. Drill, Baby, Drill.
We need to take action on global warming. We need to make informed decisions based on the best science and the best research, rather than blind ideology.
4. Fiscal Irresponsibility.
I don't see anywhere where McCain is going to diverge from Bush's path to national bankruptcy. If anything, he will go faster down that path. Obama's policies aren't so great here either, but they are better.
5. Torture.
End torture now. "Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; he's [Obama is] worried that someone won't read them their rights." McCain/Palin are ambiguous on this, so one can only guess it will continue secretively. As for AQ, Obama wants to get OBL as badly as anyone else.
All fair points except #5.
McCain is ardently against torture, period.
but he defines it so narrowly that pretty much nothing qualifies as torture.
Mccain also does not consider torture the act of hanging someone from the wrists and this way keeping them awake for 24 straight hours.
Really?! I would have sworn I remember him saying almost quote for quote "No torture for any reason" or some such.
Man, if he for torture, Ive lost all respect for him.
Torture has been proven to not work. There is little to fabricated "actionable intelligence" derived from torture. They just start telling you what you want to hear so the pain stops. They'll admit anything and everything.
I remember watching some PBS special and a former CIA interogator straight said, "Torture doesnt work. Leverage works." That basically, the captive can help their family or their situation or whatever if they start talking. Otherwise, your family is going to be arrested and prosecuted, youre going to a small, dark cell for the rest of your life with no chance of ever getting out.
Anyway, I hope youre wrong about McCain.
I wouldn't say McCain has done a total flip-flop on torture, but he appears to have softened his position when he voted against the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2008, which bans waterboarding.
Dude.
You need to watch 24.
Torture WORKS - unless you're torturing Jack Bauer; then it NEVER works - and YOU end up dead (well, sometimes so does he, but he always comes back to life and kills you).
People should watch Taxi to the Dark Side. Excellent Do entary on torture and the United States Military/Government.
He railed against... the Patriot Act, I believe it was, or an update, in 2006. Said something about being one of the worst things as a country we can do. Then he voted for it. :p
Torture Survivors Ask McCain to Renounce His Support for TortureTue Aug 5, 2008 3:23pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0) [-] Text [+] Former Abu Ghraib interrogator and torture survivors say torture is immoral
and ineffective
MEDIA ADVISORY for Thursday, August 7th, 11:00 a.m.
TELEPHONE PRESS CONFERENCE CALL
A former U.S. military interrogator at Abu Ghraib and a survivor of torture
will recount their experiences and ask U.S. Senator John McCain to renounce
his recent positions on torture and stand firm against the use of torture as
an interrogation technique.
As the military commissions in Guantanamo Bay demonstrate, torture is not only
immoral, but also ineffective. Evidence collected with the use of torture was
inadmissible in the prosecution of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, Osama Bin Laden's
driver. Also, concerns that much of the evidence against another Guantanamo
detainee, Mohamed al Qahtani, would similarly be ruled inadmissible forced the
government to drop the case entirely.
Joshua Casteel, who served at the Abu Ghraib prison camp; Father Roy
Bourgeois, founder of School of Americas Watch, Purple Heart recipient, and
torture survivor; and USAction Program Director Alan Charney will participate
in a press conference at 11 a.m. Thursday, August 7th. Call in number is
1-219-509-8111. Passcode is 36170.
"When I served in Iraq, every camera in the world was pointed at Abu Ghraib
and two things happened as a result," Casteel said. "Practices at Abu Ghraib
vastly improved, but the dark activity which previously happened there went
elsewhere. Techniques [in other prison facilities] included induced
hypothermia, smashing hands with hammers and all sorts of activities which
clearly are within the bounds of torture by any reasonable, humane standard."
The press conference comes after more than 20,000 Americans signed a pe ion
urging Senator McCain to renounce torture. The pe ion drive was sponsored by
Catholics United, School of the Americas Watch, and TrueMajority.org.
TrueMajority.org is the online project of USAction, a key member of the
coalition of groups opposing the Iraq war.
The three groups participating in Wednesday's press conference recently
distributed a video in which Casteel asks Senator McCain to appeal to his
"better angels" and recommit himself to the fight against torture.
Once, McCain was a leader in the struggle against torture by sponsoring
legislation to ban U.S. military personnel from using torture as an
interrogation tactic. This year, McCain abandoned his stand and voted against
an anti-torture amendment to the intelligence authorization bill and voted in
favor of granting interrogators retroactive immunity for past instances of
torture. There is extensive do entation of torture and abuse not only at
Abu Ghraib, but also at the Guantanamo Bay prison facility and in the secret
CIA interrogation program.
/PRNewswire-USNewswire -- Aug. 5/
That was what I watched, now that you mention it.
People should watch Taxi to the Dark Side. Excellent Do entary on torture and the United States Military/Government.
Well that seals it then. Dude would do anything and everything to be elected, abandoning his own principles in some weird attempt at garnering the vote he should have never wanted in the first place.
Sad, very sad.
I would also add Palin's stance on keeping and growing the VP office powers, an invention of Cheney to over extend executive powers. Man, I can't wait for these ers in office to take a hike.
#3 is garbage - Nobody -- nobody calls it global warming - it evolved to global climate change because they have not got a leg to stand on with that global warming Al Gore con job. Pretty soon it will be global cooling with another ice age....
LOL on global warming. the other day, october 29th, while the house of commons was passing a bill to fight global warming, the first london snowfall since 1922 was falling on parliament. also, while earth was warming up so was the moon. i think its more refreshing to have a greener agenda because it paves way for better ingenuity, but to say we're being cooked solely by our own actions is stupid.
"McCain is ardently against torture, period."
you haven't been paying attention.
One of McNasty's career-long, defining characteristics was anti-torture, until he caved in to dubya's pro-torture policy, exposing another aspect of McNasty's deeply flawed character.
Last edited by boutons_; 11-04-2008 at 01:32 PM.
as compared to that oak -- the Messiah of character - Obama who cannot possibly cut rev. wright off - then "does" for public concern - denies relationships with william Ayers - lets not get into his home purchase or Acorn -
I'm shocked, really, that so little was made of Palin's view of Vice Presidential powers during this campaign, particularly given the extent to which Cheney's efforts to expand those powers have been criticized.
Sorry, this one made me laugh. Global warming alarmism is blind ideology.
Yup.
I have argued against torture for years, and always counted on McCain as having the bully pulpit when it came to that issue, and the fact that he was so outspoken against it. He cast another vote outside of the one this August about waterboarding that essentially went along with the administration (1-2 years ago if memory serves). That blew my mind.
Don't get me wrong here, I am a grown up and know that candidates for national office tend to roll a bit in an effort to widen their appeal, but this just was one of those things that I couldn't forgive McCain for. One hopes that somewhere there are deeply held principles that a man just won't go back on no matter what, but I have yet to see McCain stand for anything this election cycle other than winning.
It is the "win at all costs" streak that worries me so much about the right-wing of this nation.
Can one associate the greater tendency of most business school students to cheat with their tendency to vote Republican?
I am still laughing -- amazed that someone still is clinging to GLobal Warming. Al Gore must be so proud that he still has like 5 or 10 stupid people holding on to the global warming disaster.
That is true for both candidates.. The MEssiah or the old guy. This is an accurate description for both parties.
Tell that to the Arctic and the Antarctic.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...GK2UwD93RNNVG2
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...climate-change
While I certainly agree in general with you, I dont really have a prime example of Obama in this instance like I do with McCain.
I voted for McCain in the 2000 primaries for his center-right positions. He was not a neocon (before I even knew what a neocon was). He was not a warmonger, he was a fiscal conservative with a track record to prove it, etc.
Granted, Obama hasnt been around long enough to see what issues he would scuttle on under pressure from the elctorate...I concede that point.
But McCain has basically abandoned every principle I admired him for in an effort to become POTUS. Unfortunately for him (and for me personally), he has convinced me that he isnt lying about what he would do in office. If he had somehow lied about his current economic/domestic policies in an effort to be elected, only to then renig on all of that and revert to his circa 2000 agenda, I'd be very happy with him.
But he picked Palin. ing Palin. Palin, for chrissakes...
That convinced me he wasnt bull ting or lying his way to the Oval Office, he really has sold out and would be complicit with whatever agenda his party had in mind.
Honestly, it saddens me.
I said this in the big thread...The Dems will up just as bad if not a lot worse than the Repubs did with the majority in Congress and the White House. Especially because our economy sucks and we just increased our national debt by nearly $1 trillion in bailouts alone (with more to come).
But we have been given no believable alternative to this trainwreck. I am happy that a mjority of the country is colorblind, I am proud our country will elect a minority President for reasons that transcend Affirmative Action. Obama is actually a pretty damn intelligent human being...that will be a nice change right off the bat. He actually commands the English language with aplomb, who knew right?
But he is also very green, and Obama doesnt scare me, the Democrat Congress does.
I Can agree with you on the last sentence. and I also agree it is refreshing to see that American has come along far enough to elect a black president ( hopefully this will be the end of the race card being played over and over and if it is - then it will all be worth it for me to not have to listen to the race card ever again)
I disagree with you on Palin - you condemn her for her mistakes / gaffes / greenm status - yet you don't do the same for Obama ( i.e. Auschwitz, punished with a baby, typical white person, calling gradma racist, supposedly being the man for the poor folks yet between he and Biden they gave less to charity in 2007 than I did, his statements on how he would elect supreme court justices, 57 states?)
, Al Gore has a command of the English language - yet he invented the internet and believes in Global Warming ?
But - like I said - Obama won't have nearly as much power without that super majority --if he gets a super majority then I really do fear for this country and where he and THEY will take us.
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