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Simple as this, without Kobe, Shaq wouldn't have won a ring on the Lakers.
Exactly. Obviously 21_IQ knew this and appreciated all Shaq brought, so long as he kept bringing it. Once he no longer could, he went right back to despising the same player that brought the Lakers success.
Falsificación... Falsificazione... تمويه... Fälschung... 偽造品... Απομίμηση... Фальшивка... Fejka... Falsificação... 伪造品... FAKE!
Simple as this, without Kobe, Shaq wouldn't have won a ring on the Lakers.
I can understand why other Laker fans would hate Shaq, but I love him. He definitely didn't do everything right off the court, but neither did Kobe, or Jordan.
Kobe and Duncan could've won les together. Shaq and Wade did. I've always felt Kobe and Shaq should share the credit equally for the Laker dynasty of 99-02.
Shaq had Eddie Jone, Nick Van Exel and Ced Ceballos - all All-Star type players at that point in their career. Kobe was getting screwed for minutes and coming off bench with Del Harris running the show. Did Shaq win a le? Nope.
Did Shaq win a le with All-NBA first team Penny Hardaway and Horace grant? No, his 1st seed Orlando team was swept out of the finals by a 6th seed Rockets team.
It wasn't until Kobe became the best 2 guard in the league and the most dangerous closer in the NBA that the Lakers started running off les.
Fact is, they need each other. They ran the high low game to perfection. Shaq still hasn't played with a better player than Kobe was at getting him easy lobs. They were ying and yang. Thats just the way it was.
No one was gonna stop Shaq in 2000-2001. Obviously Kobe beasted against the Spurs. but Shaq was just nasty that whole playoffs
Maybe. You don't know what player replaces Kobe. Shaq won a ring with Wade. Wade is nowhere near as complete a player as Kobe.
That's my main point. Because you expect your team to bring you a le, instead of a sense of gra ude towards the players bringing it, you feel en led to have it. When the means to an end no longer brings about the desired end, you simply replace the means without a true care for what was done.
I how I wish my fandom could be so jaded.
Whether or not you cared before, most certainly after he won three Finals MVPs in three consecutive seasons, you should have appreciated the player enough to care even if he was no longer on the team.
When Barkley left the Suns (under very similar personal situations, mind you) and forced a trade from the Suns to the contending Rockets, I still rooted for him after the Suns were through because even though they never won the le, they would have been nowhere as good without him. When Michael Finley's Spurs defeated the Suns just two seasons ago, I still pulled for a one-time Suns favorite to win his first le despite his team literally sucker-shoving my fandom into madness.
Go ahead and call me overly sentimental. Fact is I've lost my mind with the Suns and have proven my fandom as real. I love the Suns so much that since their current owner is sabotaging their present and future, I've semi-revolted hoping for an ownership change because that's what's best for the Suns. It doesn't make me fake. It makes me that much more real because it's not just wins and losses.
I have an employee. He is great. He made my company alot of money. Best employee ever. Love him to death! He then becomes a bit lazy and starts talking crap about me. I let him go. Do i love him now? No... him. He dont work for me anymore. He then starts talking crap about my company. I still dont see how its bad to hate on the ex-employee.
Shaq isn't a winning a le without an elite closer. Simple as that. Kobe averaged close to 30 - 7 - 7 in the 2001 playoffs. He was just as beast Shaq.
I could argue that Shaq's 2001 le run was one of the best post season performances ever. Rich Gannon is bad mouthing the Raiders, I'll never hate him. There are just some people I can't hate.
I'm not saying it's bad. Pathetic to a point. Sure. However, my first and main gripe came in pointing out the hypocrisy of the following.
Hate Shaq pre-Lakers
Love Shaq with Lakers
Hate Shaq post-Lakers
Criticize Shaq for calling such fake.
FAKE: one that is not what it purports to be...
You hate the person and player Shaq. You hate what he is and what he does. Whoops! He's a Laker benefitting my team to three consecutive le. I love that guy. He's a great player. Whoops! He's no longer a Laker. I stand to gain nothing from him any longer, so I hate him again. Thanks for the rings, but I hate you the person and the player.
WHAT! How dare Shaq say I'm fake. I never changed. I always only rooted for the Lakers and if Shaq happened to be on the Lakers, then so be it. If he was off the Lakers, whatever. I'm far from fake. I love the Lakers...
WTF?! It's not bad to hate players. I hate a ton of players. However, I hated Horry and Elie for what each did to the Suns prior to becoming a Sun, and I hated each while being Suns. When each left, I hated them just the same.
You see... When your opinion changes based on what such brings to you, you're fake.
Wade is the the 3rd best closer in the game. But lets ignore that they played in a weak conference, didn't face the actual best team in the West and that Eric Dampier put up comparable numbers to Shaq in the finals; fine, Shaq won a ring without Kobe.
But as of now, Kobe is doing just fine without Shaq. I'd take prime Shaq over Gasol, Odom and Bynum. Lets see what Kobe does the next 5 years before we set anything in stone.
Your main point is garbage because you don't know me, nor no what the you are talking about. I'm utterly grateful for what Shaq did for LA when he was here. Still am. Doesn't mean I have to suck his when he selfishly demands money he wasn't worth, demands a trade, insults the city, team, owner, coach and ends up playing on a division rival. Shaq isn't a Laker anymore. When he retires and jersey goes up into the stands we can remenice about old times. Until then, he's the enemy, an enemy standing in the way of Lakers.
Yes we already established that you have somewhat 'lost your mind'. Fact is, you haven't proven here other than type of few words. I don't really care what your fandom means to you, but when you start questioning others fandom and then start contradicting yourself with your own borderline insane rambles it's hard for someone to take what you're saying seriously. I never called you fake, you did based on the flawed logic you were using. But hey keep preaching about what a 'proven' fan you are. If that makes feel validated about how 'real' your fandom is, good for you.
As for the thread's purpose... Suns offense is still struggling with the same issues as before: turnovers (10 at the half) and inconsistent 3-point shooting (3-10 at the half). Plus... their defense is not working. Indiana is 9-14 from 3-point range.
Terrible.
black hole son...won't she come...won't she mm....
Sure, sure... I'll admit to not knowing everything about you and the context of your post when I entered in and pointed out the irony and hilarity of a post that criticized Shaq for calling Laker fans fake while at the same time admitting to only liking Shaq when his Bandwagon was in the Lakers camp.
From there you insulted me because I was a worthless Trail Blazer fan, which I'm not. It was a joke in response to the flood of pro-blazer threads in this forum several months back. Other have changed back. I haven't. Oops.
Along the way too many assumptions were made based on reactions to flawed parts of posts.
I'm willing to concede such.
However, I will not understand how you can sit and deny the irony or hilarity of the post in question. Your "Hated Shaq Pre-Lakers, Loved Him With, Hated After" sentence that led into your critique of Shaq calling Laker fans fake was at best a poorly worded qualifier that misrepresented the actual intent of the post and poster and at worst proved the poster fake and hypocritical.
Whichever. We've spent a ton of time chasing our tails. You're not going to prove me a re or hypocrite and I no longer care one way or the other.
Yeah... I'm mad. My fandom has issues. I hate the puppeteer pulling the strings of the puppets that make up my favorite team. He's a complete tool. I hated D'Antoni as well. Such doesn't call into question my fandom, but rather proves my ability to break down the never-ending failings of my favorite team and who is to blame.
Shaq is the ing poster boy for 'love the one you're with'. Which makes what he said completely hypocritical.
Proves how simple minded you are acting and how stupid your argument is. All you've done is juxtaposed what I said with what you believe I meant and then start lying about what I actually wrote. Never did I say I hated Shaq the player. If you actually had any reading comprehension skills you would have caught that.
So that makes you a hypocritical fake based on your rationalism of Sarver. Way to go champ.
And Kobe's performance was right up there as well.
Simple fact is, Kobe was the best defender and facilitator on the team. Kobe was also the only closer on the team as Shaq has proved time and time again that he is incapable of such a task. Lakers aren't beating the Spurs without Kobe plain and simple. He completely dominated that series.
My opinion of Sarver never changed. It's completely different. I'm pissed off that he's ruining the Suns. As a result I'm torn whether or not to financially support them because if enough people do such, then he is forced to sell.
I'm obviously not completely revolting, as I still watch Suns games and still actively root for them to win every game they play. I haven't changed at all, except I'm not buying tickets or merchandise as long as Sarver is the owner.
How is this similar to "hating pre-Laker Shaq, loving Laker Shaq, and then hating post-Laker Shaq" as your post proclaimed?
It's not. So give it up. I've always hated Sarver and I've always loved the Suns. Nothing has changed.
You claimed originally 'as long as Sarver does X' I'll hate him. Implying you'd change your tune in a heartbeat if he wasn't re ed. This is the logic your using in calling me fake, which is stupid. Especially considering my opinion of Shaq the person never changed as I've clarified for you.
But hey if you want to argue semantics all day we can keep going.
This is an NBA board, right? I think when a players name is mentioned it's generally assumed, unless clearly stated otherwise, that the player and not the person is being spoken about.
so...
then...If the Lakers are out, I will force myself to cheer for the Suns. I love Shaq Diesel that much!
You clearly mention hating Shaq, never clearly proving a context of the person and not the player, and in doing so - by admitting you hated, then loved, then hated Shaq depending on which team he played for - provided some quotes that made you look like one of the fake Laker fans Shaq criticized. You were critical of this criticism, thus the irony.How can you hate Shaq.
You failed to get irony and immediately became defensive. In my elaboration I most definitely kept on assuming you meant the player and not the person and the arguments devolved from the misunderstanding. Instead of seeing the hilarity in the original point, as leemajors did, you insisted it personal, proclaimed me a re and attempted to spin unrelated history of my recent fandom into a similar light, even though it was like cramming a square peg in a round hole.
I failed to read your mind. You failed to find humor in a humorous bunch of sentences. Everything fell apart from there. Each got lost in mocking the other to the point the original point got lost and when things finally returned, nobody, and I'm guessing this includes both of us, cared any longer.
I never inferred I'd change my opinion. I said I hated him for specific reasons and was considering options, but I never hinted that if he changed all would be forgiven. Truth be told, if he managed to pull the rabbit out of the hat and the Suns actually won a le, I'd resent him that much more for the delay and the fact that had he cared to win one earlier, used picks, resigned players and kept Colangelo, that the Suns may have had several and not just that single one.
I hate Robert Sarver with every fiber of my fandom. Nothing he could do going forward would right the wrongs he's done, and these wrongs, in my eyes, are unforgivable and deserve retribution.
The real irony in the quote is that Shaq said in the first place. But in reality, don't give a what a hypocritical Suns fan thinks. Especially one that feels the need to justify his fandom, so he can feel validated in that his fandom is superior to that of all those 'fake' Laker fans despite the fact he defined himself exactly the same way.
You failed in the sense you ended putting words into my mouth pretending to actually understand how I felt based on a one sentence. Regardless, you talked yourself into a hypocritical circle and are now reduced to using 'we got lost' card when it was really just you that went off on a tangent.
You think what you want to think. Now you're the one running around in circles to justify your reactions by belittling me as a hypocrite when you have yet to prove such.
I guess we're both two clueless peas in one effed up thread.
I have as much proof of you being a hypocrite as you have in calling me me one or implying I'm fake. You used one sentence and refused to comprehend my clarification, as I did with your original Sarver statement which you then back tracked and clarified.
Let me know when you want to start discussing hoops though.
I've already admitted to taking things too far from my original point/intent, to point out the hilarity of that those two sentences. I said I was confused, but bent on winning the argument, getting so engrossed in putdowns that I completely misread what you were saying, then failed to care about the subsequent clarifications.
I won't apologize, because it being a message board, these things happen. However, I will admit I wrongly assumed based on two sentences and then took things too far when things got personal.
I don't expect an apology, either, but since I've extended an objective hand post-clarification, reciprocity would be great. If not, it's not like you're the first poster I've put off, nor will you be the last.
But hey... whatever, right?
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