young players development

[SenorSpur]

Also Finley is too high maintenance for what he gives back. He needs too many shots and playing time to get warm for a game or two. This guy gets paid way too much money (by the Mavs!!) for so little production.

I know where you're coming from, but that's no longer the case. His large contract with the Mavs expired this past July. He's now being paid only by the Spurs.

[SenorSpur]

Spurs biggest screw up is not starting the youth movement last year. The well was officially dry last spring. I always felt the Spurs were lacking 2 decent semi-young players to keep going strong. That's were Scola and a guy like Mason would come in.

I actually thought they should've started a "soft" movement at least a year earlier too. However, they had just won the championship and Pop was -bent on allowing the same core of players to come back and defend the le. Pop continued to bristle at claims that the team needed to get younger. When your team has just won the le, it's tough to argue his point.

However, your point is well-taken. 1 or 2 younger, contributing players (perhaps a big and a small) could have likely mitigated some of the deficiencies that were exposed during last year's regular season and playoffs. Manu's injury got most of the attention as the reason the Spurs came up short. However, his injury were not the only things wrong with last year's roster. A point now validated by the gradual youth movement that is currently undeway.

[all_heart]

I actually thought they should've started a "soft" movement at least a year earlier too. However, they had just won the championship and Pop was -bent on allowing the same core of players to come back and defend the le. Pop continued to bristle at claims that the team needed to get younger. When your team has just won the le, it's tough to argue his point.

However, your point is well-taken. 1 or 2 younger, contributing players (perhaps a big and a small) could have likely mitigated some of the deficiencies that were exposed during last year's regular season and playoffs. Manu's injury got most of the attention as the reason the Spurs came up short. However, his injury were not the only things wrong with last year's roster. A point now validated by the gradual youth movement that is currently undeway.

Yes, it is tough to argue to mix up the roster a bit when you just won a le. However it's pretty obvious now that those veterans that won the le were on their last legs sort to speak. I also noticed that last year you saw a lot more teams playing better D, like the Hornets. In years past a mediocre offense could win a le so long as you played smart D and team ball. Those days are over, now you need smart D, team ball and good offense to get to the le round. I will say this, I don't think there's a team in the NBA that can grind it out as much as the Spurs. Up until last year we were built for that, this year remains to be seen.

[mrspurs]

Guy wanted to much money. Spurs dont overpay for no one.

You might want to check yourself on that. Then look at our roster again. I see alot of overpaid scrubs. Matter fact theres probably only 3 guys who are worth what they're getting paid on our roster. Id rather have a guy who makes 10 million who contributes into wins. Then have a guy make 3 million and look like he belongs in the WNBA losing games shining the pine.

[SpurSupremacist]

Don't let facts get in the way, guys. The Spurs offered him 3 years and 9 million, he signed with Atlanta for 2 years and 2.1 million.

No, actually, that is exactly what happened. The Spurs tried to lowball him and he wasn't having it. He ended up having to take a smaller contract, but the fact remains, the Spurs lost him because they were cheap, per usual. Next.

[anakha]

No, actually, that is exactly what happened. The Spurs tried to lowball him and he wasn't having it. He ended up having to take a smaller contract, but the fact remains, the Spurs lost him because they were cheap, per usual. Next.

If nobody was offering contracts better than 3 years-$9M, how is that 'lowballing'? Would you rather the Spurs outbid themselves?

[SpurSupremacist]

If nobody was offering contracts better than 3 years-$9M, how is that 'lowballing'? Would you rather the Spurs outbid themselves?

No. It just turned out for whatever reason he didn't receive a better deal that particular year, but he was definitely worth more than 3 mill/year, as seen as soon as his contract with the hawks was up. He took a short contract and then got paid, you see that with a lot of players, they take a 1 year deal at lower than market value and then cash in the following year. The Spurs lowballed him, thinking he would be easily replaced if he didn't accept their ty offer. They've been searching for one ever since he left. The Spurs still don't have an athletic 3. He helped bring them a championship, reward him.

[anakha]

No. It just turned out for whatever reason he didn't receive a better deal that particular year, but he was definitely worth more than 3 mill/year, as seen as soon as his contract with the hawks was up. He took a short contract and then got paid, you see that with a lot of players, they take a 1 year deal at lower than market value and then cash in the following year. The Spurs lowballed him, thinking he would be easily replaced if he didn't accept their ty offer. They've been searching for one ever since he left. The Spurs still don't have an athletic 3. He helped bring them a championship, reward him.

Dollar value for NBA players is very relative - primarily based on how much equivalent players are making and on how much teams are willing to offer.

You're dismissing all too handily the fact that no better offer was on the market that year, as well as letting Jackson off too easy for overestimating how much teams would be willing to offer that year.

[SpurSupremacist]

Dollar value for NBA players is very relative - primarily based on how much equivalent players are making and on how much teams are willing to offer.

You're dismissing all too handily the fact that no better offer was on the market that year, as well as letting Jackson off too easy for overestimating how much teams would be willing to offer that year.

Sure, that particular year he underestimated what his value was. That isn't really the point, though. The point is, if the Spurs weren't so tight, he would still be a Spur now... more than likely.

[anakha]

Sure, that particular year he underestimated what his value was. That isn't really the point, though. The point is, if the Spurs weren't so tight, he would still be a Spur now... more than likely.

Overestimated, not underestimated.

And I beg to differ, but that's exactly the point.

Why place all of the blame on the FO for a decision Jackson and his agent ultimately made?

[mrspurs]

No. It just turned out for whatever reason he didn't receive a better deal that particular year, but he was definitely worth more than 3 mill/year, as seen as soon as his contract with the hawks was up. He took a short contract and then got paid, you see that with a lot of players, they take a 1 year deal at lower than market value and then cash in the following year. The Spurs lowballed him, thinking he would be easily replaced if he didn't accept their ty offer. They've been searching for one ever since he left. The Spurs still don't have an athletic 3. He helped bring them a championship, reward him.

+1

[Capt Bringdown]

I struggle to find another team that won a whole slew of championships and still developed young players.

You might be right - however, this is what makes the Spurs fumbles so painful.

We've had our chances, don't you think? If we could have made good on just one of the opportunities mentioned by Collins in the OP, the Spurs might have been in Bill Russell's Celtic dynasty territory.

4 les is glorious. But I can't help but think we missed a chance to make write a even more fantastic chapter in NBA history.

[Fingaroll44]

The Salmons deal got us Speedy Claxton, who was a key component of a championship team. The extra #1 pick used on Barbosa gave SA a #1 pick used to acquire Nazi Mohammed, who was a key component to a championship team (and a very good player in the Suns PO series that year). Beno did not give a damn about playing basketball here after his rookie year and was so bad and injury prone he had little value and was in the last year of his contract in 07. We all now know the Scola thing was a big screw-up (many of us knew that last year too).

I laugh at Doug Collins evaluating the Spurs given that he screwed up the Chicago Bulls and the Detroit Pistons - both teams won it all after he left. Has Collins achieved anything as an NBA coach? Please.

The Spurs FO did not let S Jax "get away" He took a one year deal in Atlanta and then cashed in in 2005, as did Hedo. The Spurs made both those players millions of dollars benefitting from having success here.

SA could not have six or seven guys making more that $5MM per.

We get this old stuff dredged up every now and then and have to educate folks here

Thank you "Dirty Harry". What people keep convienently leaving out, while criticizing Pop & Co, is that les have been won directly or indirectly by the "poor job" they've done in the front office.

[Fingaroll44]

IMO the Detroit Pistons are a good example of keeping your core of vetrean players like Hamilton, Wallace, Prince, and Billips(until last week's trade),but also bringing in and developing young talent like Maxiell, Stuckey, and Johnson. They, the Pistons, have a very nice balance of Vetreans and young players. I hope in the future the Spurs can strike a similar balance.

sure they make a good example but @ the same time wheres the criticism for them? They havent won since '04 and they havent been injured.

[Fingaroll44]

Instead of developing players for a future run, they cashed in all their long-term chips for a ring right away.

There are still teams looking for their first EVER ring so it's hard to fault the Spurs FO for wanting to win right away. But at the same time, it also hurt their future (last year and this season and maybe a few more going forward)

This is what ure supposed to do isnt it? Win NOW if u can. You cant have it both ways.

[Fingaroll44]

If nobody was offering contracts better than 3 years-$9M, how is that 'lowballing'? Would you rather the Spurs outbid themselves?

Yea, then so they can complain Pop doesnt know how to manage the budget.

[Obstructed_View]

He helped bring them a championship, reward him.

See Rose, Malik and Jackson, Jaren for info on how well that turned out. That Jack took the next step as a player could just as easily have been due to the fact that he had to earn his next contract in '04. He was certainly a huge disappointment for the team that ended up paying him all that money, so it seems equally likely that if he'd stayed he'd have ended up a good player for whoever the Spurs had to trade him to.

[Obstructed_View]

sure they make a good example but @ the same time wheres the criticism for them? They havent won since '04 and they havent been injured.

They also picked Darko over Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, and Kaman, picked Delfino over Barbosa and Howard, and let Mehmet Okur go for nothing, IIRC.