It's clearly both. And a lot of it had to do with what Dirk wanted. He wanted Avery gone and he obviously got his wish. When Dirk wants something, he tells Cuban and it's done. See: Avery firing.
But, hey, it's a bad group of guys. They hold onto this thinking that they can still rebuild some of the glory from the 2006 run. It's obvious that will never happen, yet they insist on bringing back the same-old rehashes. It's quite likely that they'd still be 2-6 right now, even with Avery coaching. We'd certainly never get to see Gerald Green play a lick if he were still here.
Though it's always been a "player's league", a lot of the blame goes to Donnie and Cuban for choosing these players. JJ Barea? Are you ting me? Who gives that sort of money and commitment to a guy that a) can't get off the bench and b) would be on the streets if the Mavs didn't sign him. Bringing back Devean George, Stackhouse, not finding a decent 2-guard, investing money in centers that are afraid of the hoop, thinking Jason Terry is the solution, etc., etc., etc.
It's hard to say "blow it up", because a fire sale wouldn't help anything right now. Cuban is smart enough (I hope) to look at this as a business (which it obviously is) and one that ultimately effects his own pocket book. Instead of "blowing it up" outright, they need to make smart moves that will both help the team improve and keep butts in the seats of the AAC. If they just start shipping guys out for nothing, the entire franchise will go to in a hurry and Cuban will bleed cash from this investment. But they do need new blood, new excitement added to this roster. I would hope that Donnie is cranking away on something like this right now, but we all know he's just a lame stick that talks a big game but never produces.
You keep Dirk (unless they're just blown away from something HUGE - ie, Bosh, Aldridge and a package, Beasley, etc.), Kidd (again - same situation), Green and Dampier (unless...) and work to shape up the rest. It's possible to change things almost overnight. Look at the Celtics. In a manner of months, they went from cellar-dwellars to the top of the heap. But the Mavs insist on building their team as though they were the Rangers, by building up their own sort of farm system and promoting from within. It's and it's obvious it doesn't work.
Fat Joe left Atlantic.
Carlisle used to be a control freak in Indiana. He had the players against him there and he used to preach defense and JVG type basketball. Suprised to see him trying out D'Antoni style B-Ball. It won't last. Carlisle is going to go back to the old Carlisle within 3 games.
So how is Dirk calling the shots for the entire organization? He can't even call the shots among the guys on what is supposedly "his" team.
All I know is Avery said "this isn't a playoff team without serious retooling". It sounded like sour grapes at the time, but it turns out he was just telling it like it is.
Meanwhile Donnie, Mark, and Dirk said "we just need to get rid of Avery".
It's pretty obvious which side was right and which side was wrong here. And if Avery was committed to a rebuild, I'd have to believe his fire and passion would be much more valuable than Carlisle's style (whatever that is).
I've always been a fan of Avery the coach. That was what I thought; these players were too lazy to be pushed by Avery. It all starts from the top, and if I thought that Mark Cuban would be more supportive of Avery then we still would have a championship contending Mavs team. Just like Holt supports Pop, the front office should support each other.
And I do think that Avery was strongly against trading Harris away for Kidd, and he was right.
Hope the Mavs get him back, I cant stand him reading from cue cards acting all fake on ESPN.
Avery lost the confidence of the team because of how he coached in the Miami/GS series. He banished Del Harris to the luxury suites because he was the Coach of the Year and had the best winning % or whatever for somebody after only 200 games and he didn't need his training wheels anymore. This team has problems way beyond Avery but he coached himself out of a job here.
What you think is not factually correct. He gave up on Harris early last season and begged Cuban to get him Kidd. He began backing away from that stance during the period of limbo when the trade initially fell apart and it wasn't clear whether or not it would go through. Avery was the main engine behind the acquisition of Kidd.
You are wrong here. Avery was completely in favor of getting Harris out of town. Avery made a lot of true statements after getting fired, but his stance on the Kidd/Harris trade is a flat out lie. He absolutely wanted Harris traded.
So he has a big ego....so does Phil Jackson, so does Pat Riley, so does Nellie.
The problem is that the players didn't want Avery telling them what to do anymore, and they had an open channel to whine to Cuban about it. Cuban, who would rather be buddies with his players than their boss, defended them and unfairly cast all the blame at Avery's feet.
His ego isn't why he's gone.
It would be unfair to lay everything at Avery's feet. It would also be unfair to say that he was a saint and should've remained the coach. His relationship with Cuban was over, he poisoned the well with his players. I don't have a problem with a coach that is a taskmaster, but the guy was a freaking dictator. You don't have to call a play from the bench ON EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION when your point guard is Jason Kidd. Kidd is not the guy he was in his prime, but he knows how to ing run a play and manage a game. He doesn't need Avery to hold his hand like he's in a youth rec league at the YMCA and this is the first time he's ever played basketball.The problem is that the players didn't want Avery telling them what to do anymore, and they had an open channel to whine to Cuban about it. Cuban, who would rather be buddies with his players than their boss, defended them and unfairly cast all the blame at Avery's feet.
This team needed a major overhaul and it should've happened, but it should be Carlisle or whomever presiding over that new roster, not Avery.
Right on. It was a situation where Cuban/Donnie said, "Hey, welcome to the team. These are the guys you'll be coaching. We chose them for you. Now go." Most of the time, doesn't a coach have some say in the guys he'd like to work with? Instead, they dished him off on a pile of crap. Carlisle is a good coach. He'd be 7-0 with that Lakers roster, too. In the NFL, you can get by if you have a better coach than you do players (Patriots, Dolphins, ans), but in the NBA if you don't have the superstars, you don't have .
Cuban has a history of throwing his coaches under the bus, so let's not use Avery's relationship against Cuban as some sort of black mark on his resume. If anything, it speaks to any good character he may have that he stands up against Cuban.
And as far as "poisoning the well" with his players, I don't see it. Not with the way these guys started this season. This team is full of lazy, pissy little whiny s, and Avery was doing everything he could to motivate them. They didn't like it, so they cried to Cuban about how Avery was being too mean. So Cuban, wanting desperately to be their buddy, fires Avery and brings a cupcake in to "coach" them.
I'd say Carlisle had some of that input. Wasn't he the one that poo-poo'd the Howard for Artest deal? That worked out well.
Just like Cuban and Donnie and the entire team, Rick talks a good game ("I want a few assholes") but when he had a chance to get one of the biggest ballbusting assholes in the NBA, he pussed out like this entire organization does time after time.
That may be one instance. But then - who's to say that they were really in it to begin with? Was this before or after Josh's anthem incident? After the bad playoff run, the slumping 2nd half of the season, the partying and the potsmoking - Josh's stock was probably at it's lowest ever. It's likely the Kings didn't want what the Mavs were offering.
But where was Carlisle's input on JJ Barea, Devean George, Desagana Diop? He didn't have any because he was the new guy coming in and Mark/Donnie (NKOTB?) made those poor decisions for him. I guarantee that, if the shackles are taken off, Rick would haul some asses out of Dallas and make some major moves.
Cuban's an asshole, so is Avery, and so is Nellie. Nellie quit on the team because his mancrush went to Phoenix and he didn't have the heart to coach this roster anymore. I'm amused by this revisionist history of yours.
I think they're like any group of players, they'd continue to buy what Avery was selling if they had any confidence in him. Jerry Sloan and Pop can ride their players, but Avery can't...not when he clenched his buttcheeks and slowed it down versus Miami when they should've run on the Heat, or when he decided to change the lineup of his 67-win team to "match up better" with the Warriors.And as far as "poisoning the well" with his players, I don't see it. Not with the way these guys started this season. This team is full of lazy, pissy little whiny s, and Avery was doing everything he could to motivate them. They didn't like it, so they cried to Cuban about how Avery was being too mean. So Cuban, wanting desperately to be their buddy, fires Avery and brings a cupcake in to "coach" them.
The team is just not very good. Stack and Terry are older, whereas Josh is the ultimate frontrunner, since he only plays hard when things are going well. Damp and Diop would be fine if their combined salary was $7 million a year, not $15.
Where's the revisionist history? I said Cuban has a history of clashing with his coaches and throwing them under the bus. Please point me to where I've revised history here.
I just enjoy how when things went bad in the past, it was because the team had no confidence in Avery.....but this season now that Avery's gone, it's because "they just aren't that good".
Avery got outcoached in GS and Miami...but didn't you guys just get done telling me how it's a "players league"? So where were the players to step up? Dirk played like for half the Miami series and the entire GS series, but excuses keep getting made for him.
You guys seriously need to lay off the Cuban Kool-Aid. Just cuz Marky Mark tells you that Avery was the biggest prick alive and destroyed the team doesn't make it so. Did Avery have his faults and make his mistakes? Absolutely. But judging by the response of this team post-Avery, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Avery wasn't the problem, and we may have fired one of the best coaches in the league just because he hurt Dirk's feelings.
He has TWO former head coaches. One that quit on the team, the other had the team quit on him. It's just as much the coach's fault as it is Cuban's that it didn't work out. You're going with an either/or approach when it comes to the blame game. It's a collective failure.
To take one example, look at Stackhouse. He sucks now, but he certainly didn't during his first three years. He got old. What player left from 06 is playing at above the same level?
Did I say Avery "destroyed the team?"You guys seriously need to lay off the Cuban Kool-Aid. Just cuz Marky Mark tells you that Avery was the biggest prick alive and destroyed the team doesn't make it so.
Avery was a problem, but he wasn't the only one. I don't see the contradiction. I'm glad Avery is gone, and at the same time, if I were the owner of another team, I would seriously consider hiring him.But judging by the response of this team post-Avery, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Avery wasn't the problem, and we may have fired one of the best coaches in the league just because he hurt Dirk's feelings.
Cuban & Nellie's relationship fell apart well before Nellie quit. Let's not forget how Cuban demanded that Dirk risk his career and play against the Spurs and Nellie stood up to him over it.
The difference between then and now is that when Cuban made ty decisions, he had a guy with the balls to tell him to off. Avery had that at ude, but at that point Cuban had propped Dirk up to such a high status that it neutered Avery of what power he did have.
Now that Cuban has nobody to stand up to him and he's surrounded by nothing but a bunch of less Yes Men, we're seeing just how quickly this thing is going down the hole.
2 and 6.
its ONLY 8 games...
Jump into the Trinity, why dont you...
No, not every trade works out for the best...
but Cuban will make a trade to better the team...
write.that.down
But if Avery was so great, why wasn't his name ever so much as mentioned for some of the other job vacancies around the league? And don't bring up the Cuban-payroll thing. If Avery was as wanted as everyone wants to believe, he would at least taken the time to meet with other franchises to discuss the possibilities. As it stood, the phone never rang. Instead, he opened a car dealership, hung out with the Spurs and decided to mushmouth his way around ESPN.
I liked the guy, so I'll put that out there. I really appreciated his time in Dallas. He did great things for this franchise and laid it all out. But he wasn't perfect, as we can all now see. It was just a situation where his effectiveness had worn off and it was time for him to go. It happens. Avery gets paid (twice) to sit at ESPN and make fun of his former team.
But answer this - who would you rather have right now? Avery or Dirk? It was one or the other. This season couldn't have gotten underway with both still in Dallas.
I'd like to think that's true. , the entire fanbase wishes for such. But there's not much in the past to give any indication that he'll make the right decisions for the future. Something has to fall in his lap for him to do something.
Let's also not forget the fact that Nellie spent 50 games into the 04-05 season holding his and not bothering to coach the team, then Avery took over and they took off.
Cuban is proving himself to be another Jerry Jones or George Steinbrenner, but I'm not hopping aboard the "It was a tragic mistake to fire Avery" bandwagon
This is good, though. Nice, healthy conversation. I feel like we're bonding.
I'd rather have Dirk, easily, but I'll say this: He looks tired and ragged. He even seems thinner than he normally does. That might be attributable to his obligations to the German Olympic team.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote