Religion: Yes? No? Why?

[LnGrrrR]

You'd also have to believe that you're quite lucky that you remember to breathe and keep your heart beating when you're asleep. It's also quite amazing luck that our cells know how to divide, pass on DNA, etc. What dumb luck, huh?

What are the odds that I would wake up this morning, go get a sip of orange juice, yawn, get dressed, and drive to work in exactly 17 minutes and 12 seconds? Probably astronomical. You'll need a better argument than 'odds'.

[LnGrrrR]

People often reject Christianity, or religion in general, because of certain problems. But really, there is no neutral place to position yourself in philosophical space. There's nowhere you can turn in which you believe absolutely nothing and therefore don't take on some burden of proof about the position you hold. Everyone has to believe something. Even what appears to be a rejection of all beliefs is a belief. Everyone holds something to be true. Maybe your truth is that nothing else is true, but that is something you believe. Even agnostics and atheists have faith. Atheists believe there is no god (while not being able to prove as much) and agnostics believe that it is not possible to know things about God (while not being able to prove as much).

There are different meanings to the word 'belief'. I 'believe' there is no God, like I 'believe' that gravity will continue to work tomorrow. Some beliefs are based on fact, some are based on experience, and some on neither.

[smeagol]

Your opinion is certainly welcome, and I'm not going to argue with you about it, but I think it's interesting what you posted above, because Earth didn't look anything like it looks like today many million years ago, before there was life in it.

Your statement does not contradict mine, that there is a plan and a Planner.

[I Love Me Some Me]

There are different meanings to the word 'belief'. I 'believe' there is no God, like I 'believe' that gravity will continue to work tomorrow. Some beliefs are based on fact, some are based on experience, and some on neither.

I would say that if it is based on fact, it is no longer a belief but rather is now knowledge.

If it is not based on proven fact, it is a belief.

i.e. -

I know that gravity will continue to work...I believe the earth was created by natual causes.

[LnGrrrR]

I would say that if it is based on fact, it is no longer a belief but rather is now knowledge.

If it is not based on proven fact, it is a belief.

i.e. -

I know that gravity will continue to work...I believe the earth was created by natual causes.

Technically, it's the THEORY of gravity.

You could say it is a FACT that gravity exists, but you do not know for sure that gravity will continue to work as it does tomorrow. You believe it will, based on the fact that it has continued to exist for quite a long time.

Beliefs can be based on facts, as well. For instance, before the election, I BELIEVED Obama would win, due to the results of certain polls, which are FACTS.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Technically, it's the THEORY of gravity.

You could say it is a FACT that gravity exists, but you do not know for sure that gravity will continue to work as it does tomorrow. You believe it will, based on the fact that it has continued to exist for quite a long time.

Beliefs can be based on facts, as well. For instance, before the election, I BELIEVED Obama would win, due to the results of certain polls, which are FACTS.

Yes, but you did not KNOW that Obama would win. Your belief was based on good evidence, but you did not have knowledge that he was going to win. The polls were evidence that led us to believe he would win, but they did not provide us with the knowledge that he had won before the election even took place.



this is kinda funny.

[baseline bum]

it sounds like youre more of a nihilist.

I would never consider myself a nihilist. As I know it, a nihilist thinks there is no order to the world, no sense of justice, and no reason that anyone would be born with one. Nihilism seems more consistent with the religious side that claims altruism is a learned behavior rather than something naturally selected.

[baseline bum]

Yet God can spontaneously create himself? A being with the power to know all, do all, and yet he cares about us intricately?

It sound like you're making Dawkins' argument, that a god created from no order is like jumping a sheer cliff on the side of a mountain in one bound as opposed to any intelligent life being a slow progression like a hike up the side of the mountain.

[LnGrrrR]

Yes, but you did not KNOW that Obama would win. Your belief was based on good evidence, but you did not have knowledge that he was going to win. The polls were evidence that led us to believe he would win, but they did not provide us with the knowledge that he had won before the election even took place.



this is kinda funny.

And my lack of evidence for any god explains my lack of belief for any god. While there obviously IS some evidence (Bible, testimony), it does not pass the 'sniff' test for me. It does for others obviously.

[byrontx]

Why does everyone assume that God, or in the case of an agnostic-maybe god, has to be perfect.

I think our god could be a -up. Maybe the big bang was was an Oh moment. Maybe the reason the world is pretty screwed up-babies born with cancer and stuff like that is because our god just did not get it right. As gods-in-training are we getting a terrible education or, having seen how badly god messed up are we like an alcoholics teetotaler son, going to be determined to get it right when its our turn?

Oh well, you see a pretty sunset and you think, "he/she does get some things right-maybe there's some hope for 'em."

Now if he/she could just get us an athletic big.

[ElNono]

Your statement does not contradict mine, that there is a plan and a Planner.

Correct. I'm also not against the idea that there's a plan or a planner. Certainly a possibility. Except that I'm against the idea that whoever that planner or planners might be are a supernatural en y.