Bible-Thumpers!!! Prepare to be upset

[I Love Me Some Me]

If your faith is shaken by anything you've read on this board, it was never strong enough to begin with.

[baseline bum]

If your faith is shaken by anything you've read on this board, it was never strong enough to begin with.

To me it's lunacy to think an opinion or belief should be forever unchangeable. If I saw a god, saw it do something that was clearly a miracle, and there was no reasonable rational explanation, I would immediately become a theist.

[fyatuk]

yeah, right, why don't i spend all my time explaining to radicals where they are wrong. i'm sure that would be fruitful.

but the poor kids caught up in looney tunes is sad, don't you think?

yeah, trying to explain to idiots that obama is not the anti-christ is no easy business. maybe i should bring cookies.

Like I said, arguing with anyone in a non-constructive manner does nothing but make them cling tighter to their beliefs. Using terms such as "idiots" just exacerbates the problem. Someone (obviously coming from a religious standpoint) may have indeed done research and found that Obama fits a lot of the theories surrounding the anti-Christ.

Unless of course you find the whole concept of religion or divine prophecy irrational and stupid, in which case we're going back into the area of respecting others' right to believe.

you've convinced me! Obama is the anti-christ! this is me playing along with idiots. are you happier now?

Considering Obama being the anti-christ is an insanely small part of this (it being your excuse for attacking someone's entire belief in God), what do I care?

i'm so glad you asked! how does same sex marriage cause harm to them?

You'd have to answer that. You earlier stated the very existence of athiests causes harm to religious people. If that's the case, then the existence of something that violates their religious tenets must also be harmful to them.

if "Obama is the anti-christ" is a fundamental belief.

Actually, you started attacking someone who in this thread stated only that they believed scientists owed a lot to God, and science would progress further if scientists were closer to God's teachings. You brought in "I fear Obama may be the anti-christ" as a way of justifying your attack on angel's belief in God. You did not merely attack angel's fear that Obama might be the anti-christ.

if thats what they believe, i ask them to go themselves.

Perhaps you need to look up sentence structures and what exactly a question is, but that's beside the point. From what I've seen you have aggressively attacked religious beliefs for whatever reason you have.

did they say "obama is the anti-christ"?

Wow, you're really hung up on your reframing of the argument. And actually, I have gotten into that discussion. The first and only question I had to ask was "why do you think that". I have yet to find anyone who could make a rational argument for anyone being the anti-christ, and they know it. "Why" is more important than "is".

finally, the needle that went in a little too deep?

Just quoting you, since you seemed to think you "asked" angel to keep the lunacy to themselves. As I pointed out, that was an assault on angel's faith in general, not the specific statement you keep using to justify it.

i never completely ignore anything that might have an adverse affect on mankind.

Nor should you. Yet you also do nothing to remove your perceived threat and you potentially make it worse.

[I Love Me Some Me]

To me it's lunacy to think an opinion or belief should be forever unchangeable. If I saw a god, saw it do something that was clearly a miracle, and there was no reasonable rational explanation, I would immediately become a theist.

Eh...that's true.

But, I just haven't seen anything on this board that should make a believer become a non-believer.

[clambake]

Like I said, arguing with anyone in a non-constructive manner does nothing but make them cling tighter to their beliefs.

so we agree they're hopeless. where is the constuction in that?

Using terms such as "idiots" just exacerbates the problem.

yeah, i wouldn't want to compound the "word they're trying to spread".

Someone (obviously coming from a religious standpoint) may have indeed done research and found that Obama fits a lot of the theories surrounding the anti-Christ.

i'll take fact over fiction, but i heard one pig made a house the wolf couldn't blow down.

Unless of course you find the whole concept of religion or divine prophecy irrational and stupid, in which case we're going back into the area of respecting others' right to believe.

i grew up in N. Ireland. i've been involved with the absolute worst aspect of politics and religion on two battle fronts. i think i'm qualified to speak about the harm they can cause.

Considering Obama being the anti-christ is an insanely small part of this (it being your excuse for attacking someone's entire belief in God), what do I care?

yeah, timing had nothing to do with it.

You'd have to answer that. You earlier stated the very existence of athiests causes harm to religious people. If that's the case, then the existence of something that violates their religious tenets must also be harmful to them.

agree. there's very rarely anything that they're not willing to condemn "In Gods Name".

Actually, you started attacking someone who in this thread stated only that they believed scientists owed a lot to God, and science would progress further if scientists were closer to God's teachings. You brought in "I fear Obama may be the anti-christ" as a way of justifying your attack on angel's belief in God. You did not merely attack angel's fear that Obama might be the anti-christ.

do we agree she should avoid scientific conversations when they're coulpled with god?

Perhaps you need to look up sentence structures and what exactly a question is, but that's beside the point.

it makes me original. i think you're upset in some other way.

From what I've seen you have aggressively attacked religious beliefs for whatever reason you have.

i touched on that already.

Wow, you're really hung up on your reframing of the argument. And actually, I have gotten into that discussion. The first and only question I had to ask was "why do you think that". I have yet to find anyone who could make a rational argument for anyone being the anti-christ, and they know it. "Why" is more important than "is".

they don't care about "why". do you get it, yet?

Just quoting you, since you seemed to think you "asked" angel to keep the lunacy to themselves. As I pointed out, that was an assault on angel's faith in general, not the specific statement you keep using to justify it.

why should i ignore the crazy little wrench thrown into the teachings of religion? should i ignore that and embrace everything, and pretend they aren't inclined to label someone the anti-christ?

they did it to inflict damage. do you get it, yet?

Nor should you. Yet you also do nothing to remove your perceived threat and you potentially make it worse.

once again, i was born in Belfast. you have no idea what i've done to remove perceived threats. texas played a direct role in our successes regarding N. Ireland.

[fyatuk]

so we agree they're hopeless. where is the constuction in that?

The construction is in debate, not argument.

i'll take fact over fiction, but i heard one pig made a house the wolf couldn't blow down.

What is fact and what is fiction in this situation? God has not been proved or disproved. The idea of the anti-christ has not been proved or disproved. You said yourself you don't care to look up the ideas surrounding the anti-christ. You just declare something wrong and idiotic without knowing the debate.

i grew up in N. Ireland. i've been involved with the absolute worst aspect of politics and religion on two battle fronts. i think i'm qualified to speak about the harm they can cause.

Now we're back to people committing harm, not beliefs.

agree. there's very rarely anything that they're not willing to condemn "In Gods Name".

Depends on the people. Many religious people (most of the ones I know, though that is an insanely small sample of the worldwide population) refuse to condemn anything (based on rules such as love thy neighbor, do unto others, etc). Others do get obsessed with their own religious supremacy, which goes back to my statement about respecting other beliefs.

do we agree she should avoid scientific conversations when they're coulpled with god?

No. She made a valid statement from her belief system without sounding aggressive or derogatory. I don't see why she should be censored there.

Now if, like Bush, she tried to put restrictions on scientific research based solely on religious beliefs here in the US, then that would be a problem.

it makes me original. i think you're upset in some other way.

I just think the world would be infintely better if everyone was treated with respect. If we recognized and respected others rights to believe as they wanted, life would be a lot calmer. Tolerance is a blessing we can only give ourselves.

they don't care about "why". do you get it, yet?

Everyone cares about "why". A good portion of religion is dealing with "why" (the other portion with "how"). There are very few people in this world who are not affected by arguments related to "why".

why should i ignore the crazy little wrench thrown into the teachings of religion? should i ignore that and embrace everything, and pretend they aren't inclined to label someone the anti-christ?

they did it to inflict damage. do you get it, yet?

I said before that if you perceive a threat, you should not ignore it, but you should also work towards a solution instead of just trying to beat it down. Application of force solves little while application of knowledge solves much. Unless you are willing to exchanges ideas and discuss the issue rationally, you can do nothing to alleviate the percieved problem and much to exacerbate it.

I think you give the vast majority too much credit if you think Obama was labeled the anti-christ to inflict damage. Certainly some of the upper echelon heirarchy probably considered that, but I seriously doubt the vast majority considered that too thoroughly.

That why open discourse and persuasive arguments become invaluable. If one can prove the heirarchy wrong once, then they are less powerful.

once again, i was born in Belfast. you have no idea what i've done to remove perceived threats. texas played a direct role in our successes regarding N. Ireland.

You're right, I know pretty much nothing about your past. It's irrelevant since my comment was that you were accomplishing nothing towards alleviating THIS perceived threat.

[clambake]

why would they choose now to characterize obama as the anti-christ?

come on, you can say it. we already know. so just say it.

just say what the motive was. you can do it.

[fyatuk]

why would they choose now to characterize obama as the anti-christ?

come on, you can say it. we already know. so just say it.

just say what the motive was. you can do it.

It absolutely couldn't have had anything to do with the fact that he's new in the national spotlight and quite a bit of information about him came out in the last 4-6 months (since the end of the primaries). No, that couldn't have anything to do with the timing...

Like I said, some assuredly did so to try and take votes away from him, at least among the "leaders". I doubt that was the case with most of the "normal" people, though.

I have no idea what the motive was, since neither I, nor anyone I know, were pushing the idea, and in fact, we laughed when we first heard of it back in the summer.

[clambake]

Like I said, some assuredly did so to try and take votes away from him, at least among the "leaders".

what form of intimidation would you classify this as? hate or fear or both?

I doubt that was the case with most of the "normal" people, though.

@ calling them normal.

[Buddy Holly]

Science owes all its ability to research to Jesus, because it is God who created everything that science studies and attempts to explain.

So Jesus is God's pimp? How is it in your delusional Head, God the "creater" is void of any credit to science?

If more scientiest consulted God, the Creator ( the Original Manufacturer if you will), when it comes to the way people and the world (all of it God's creation) works, I believe science would realize much more correct answers and at a quicker pace.

Holy , seriously? Angel, I'm not trying to be mean to you but seriously? Just pray and the science will come quicker? Or do you know of some direct line to the big guy himself?

As for this story of ... I don't know if it is it true or not.
But, I don't need to know exactly how Jesus walked on water. The Bible states that Jesus did indeed walk on water and that is information enough for me.

It's full of wonderful tales. Just like any book you find in a child's room.

[fyatuk]

what form of intimidation would you classify this as? hate or fear or both?

Why bother classifying it. Making the claim with politcal ramifications in mind is wrong, and I'm not arguing that. If someone actually believes it and is stating what they believe, they may be incorrect, but aren't wrong in a moral sense (at least not for making the claim).

@ calling them normal.

I didn't call them normal, I called them "normal". I was using that as a quick way to say "religious people other than leaders". There's a world of difference when you remove the quotes.

[LnGrrrR]

Posted many moons ago on another forum

Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. People claim they have no belief and I whole-heartedly believe them.

But, what I wont buy is that they feel no innate connection to their fellow man, and even some cases, a much stronger feeling to the Earth and animals.

It may sound strange, but I consider myself "spiritual" even though I also consider myself an atheist.

Also, I think you'll find that MANY atheists are philosophical as well. In fact, philosophy may have lead them from religion. (And some will be led to religion as well.) I find many atheists are existentials... the religious ones are way too depressed, like Kierkegaard.

[angel_luv]

You cant honestly believe that. You just cant. Thats so incredibly false on every level of pseudo-logic you just tried to apply.

Do you go out of your way when posting in these topics to look like a mindless drone? Worse than that, you seem to revel in your ignorance as if this is the way we should all be (or in this case, scientists should be your way).

Did you go to school? Have you read a book of science ever? A vast majority of scientific research has ZERO to do with how we got here and how it all started.

When I calcuate Force, I multiply Mass by Acceleration. That has NOTHING to do with God.

Chrimeny, I mean, do you walk around your life in this world just looking for God in every corner?

You must be routinely disappointed.

On the contrary... like the Apostle Paul I can testify: " Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

( Romans 1:19-21)

[Buddy Holly]

[Oh, Gee!!]

On the contrary... like the Apostle Paul I can testify: " Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

( Romans 1:19-21)

PWNt3d!!!

[The Franchise]

Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe.

This is more trouble than it's worth.

[johnsmith]

PWNt3d!!!

[Heath Ledger]

I saw some last night on Tv where some preacher was saying if your not hing you are robbing god. Funniest i've ever heard. What a ing scam, where do i sign up for that dead money?

[Spur-Addict]

I saw some last night on Tv where some preacher was saying if your not hing you are robbing god. Funniest i've ever heard. What a ing scam, where do i sign up for that dead money?

Come on, you have higher standards than that.

[Heath Ledger]

Come on, you have HIGHER standars than that.

Only when I'm toking on that 420 that Jesus was a big fan of....

[8ft.tall.tejano]

taking the bible literal is like taking stephen king literal...soso writing, some people like it, others see it for what it is....fun fiction...
really, do you really think this planet is less than a few thousand years old?
please...john mccain is older than that...