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  1. #1
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/op...mney.html?_r=2


    IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.
    Without that bailout, Detroit will need to drastically restructure itself. With it, the automakers will stay the course — the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check.
    I love cars, American cars. I was born in Detroit, the son of an auto chief executive. In 1954, my dad, George Romney, was tapped to run American Motors when its president suddenly died. The company itself was on life support — banks were threatening to deal it a death blow. The stock collapsed. I watched Dad work to turn the company around — and years later at business school, they were still talking about it. From the lessons of that turnaround, and from my own experiences, I have several prescriptions for Detroit’s automakers.
    First, their huge disadvantage in costs relative to foreign brands must be eliminated. That means new labor agreements to align pay and benefits to match those of workers at compe ors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota. Furthermore, retiree benefits must be reduced so that the total burden per auto for domestic makers is not higher than that of foreign producers.
    That extra burden is estimated to be more than $2,000 per car. Think what that means: Ford, for example, needs to cut $2,000 worth of features and quality out of its Taurus to compete with Toyota’s Avalon. Of course the Avalon feels like a better product — it has $2,000 more put into it. Considering this disadvantage, Detroit has done a remarkable job of designing and engineering its cars. But if this cost penalty persists, any bailout will only delay the inevitable.
    Second, management as is must go. New faces should be recruited from unrelated industries — from companies widely respected for excellence in marketing, innovation, creativity and labor relations.
    The new management must work with labor leaders to see that the enmity between labor and management comes to an end. This division is a holdover from the early years of the last century, when unions brought workers job security and better wages and benefits. But as Walter Reuther, the former head of the United Automobile Workers, said to my father, “Getting more and more pay for less and less work is a dead-end street.”
    You don’t have to look far for industries with unions that went down that road. Companies in the 21st century cannot perpetuate the destructive labor relations of the 20th. This will mean a new direction for the U.A.W., profit sharing or stock grants to all employees and a change in Big Three management culture.
    The need for collaboration will mean accepting sanity in salaries and perks. At American Motors, my dad cut his pay and that of his executive team, he bought stock in the company, and he went out to factories to talk to workers directly. Get rid of the planes, the executive dining rooms — all the symbols that breed resentment among the hundreds of thousands who will also be sacrificing to keep the companies afloat.
    Investments must be made for the future. No more focus on quarterly earnings or the kind of short-term stock appreciation that means quick riches for executives with options. Manage with an eye on cash flow, balance sheets and long-term appreciation. Invest in truly compe ive products and innovative technologies — especially fuel-saving designs — that may not arrive for years. Starving research and development is like eating the seed corn.
    Just as important to the future of American carmakers is the sales force. When sales are down, you don’t want to lose the only people who can get them to grow. So don’t fire the best dealers, and don’t crush them with new financial or performance demands they can’t meet.
    It is not wrong to ask for government help, but the automakers should come up with a win-win proposition. I believe the federal government should invest substantially more in basic research — on new energy sources, fuel-economy technology, materials science and the like — that will ultimately benefit the automotive industry, along with many others. I believe Washington should raise energy research spending to $20 billion a year, from the $4 billion that is spent today. The research could be done at universities, at research labs and even through public-private collaboration. The federal government should also rectify the imbedded tax penalties that favor foreign carmakers.
    But don’t ask Washington to give shareholders and bondholders a free pass — they bet on management and they lost.
    The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.
    In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly compe ive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check.

  2. #2
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Sounds good in theory, but how are we going to force their hands into firing all the top dogs running Detroit into the ground? Surely their board isn't going to fire itself. Just as surely their board will never accept a bail-out that calls for them to fire each other. Even with that, Detroit's management isn't an isolated case, and this shortsighted slash-and-burn philosophy of short term success at the expense of the future is what has been taught for years in business schools and what has dragged our country down the toilet.

  3. #3
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    Sounds good in theory, but how are we going to force their hands into firing all the top dogs running Detroit into the ground? Surely their board isn't going to fire itself. Just as surely their board will never accept a bail-out that calls for them to fire each other. Even with that, Detroit's management isn't an isolated case, and this shortsighted slash-and-burn philosophy of short term success at the expense of the future is what has been taught for years in business schools and what has dragged our country down the toilet.
    Please understand the difference between the board and management. The board exercises a supervisory role, for the most part; basically, the board hires and fires the professionals who actually manage the corporation. Regardless, the board exists to serve the shareholders, and, as such, the law imposes a fiduciary duty of the board. And the shareholders ultimately elect the board.

    Anyway, Romney is right. If you bail out the auto industry, you'll only be rewarding their dysfunction. The best way to reform these companies is to make them reform themselves. Without federal bailout money, some companies will fail, but the good ones will address their problems and, ultimately, thrive.

  4. #4
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Please understand the difference between the board and management. The board exercises a supervisory role, for the most part; basically, the board hires and fires the professionals who actually manage the corporation. Regardless, the board exists to serve the shareholders, and, as such, the law imposes a fiduciary duty of the board. And the shareholders ultimately elect the board.

    Anyway, Romney is right. If you bail out the auto industry, you'll only be rewarding their dysfunction. The best way to reform these companies is to make them reform themselves. Without federal bailout money, some companies will fail, but the good ones will address their problems and, ultimately, thrive.
    Which one is the good one? None of them will survive without continued corporate welfare, and none of the three deserve to.

  5. #5
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    And how is any of this going to happen without the bailout? Once GM declares bankruptcy its all over. Who's going to buy a GM car when they're about to go under? , I wouldn't buy a GM car NOW so maybe they're just flat out ed.

  6. #6
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    And how is any of this going to happen without the bailout? Once GM declares bankruptcy its all over. Who's going to buy a GM car when they're about to go under? , I wouldn't buy a GM car NOW so maybe they're just flat out ed.

    I think that this is the point. He is saying that there will be a post-bankrupcy bailout to get them the bankrupcy financing they need to get them back on their feet. With all the bloated contracts gone, they could focus on developing better cars (to their credit at least ford has been doing this and several of their models have been elevated to having higher scores then their Japanese counterparts, imagine what they could do with $2000 more/car in features or R&D). It won't be an easy road back, but they could come back stronger.

  7. #7
    Believe.
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    I think that this is the point. He is saying that there will be a post-bankrupcy bailout to get them the bankrupcy financing they need to get them back on their feet. With all the bloated contracts gone, they could focus on developing better cars (to their credit at least ford has been doing this and several of their models have been elevated to having higher scores then their Japanese counterparts, imagine what they could do with $2000 more/car in features or R&D). It won't be an easy road back, but they could come back stronger.
    The first thing they need to do is boot the union - $76/ an hour to build a car - get the heck out of here.

  8. #8
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    Which one is the good one? None of them will survive without continued corporate welfare, and none of the three deserve to.
    That may be true. In which case, screw 'em. Precisely why we shouldn't bail them out.

  9. #9
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    Fire everyone and let the government run everything.

  10. #10
    Veteran AZLouis's Avatar
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    And how is any of this going to happen without the bailout? Once GM declares bankruptcy its all over.
    This article suggests otherwise...

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html

    Why Bankruptcy Is the Best Option for GM

    Chapter 11 would better preserve the valuable parts of the company than an ad hoc bailout.

    General Motors is a once-great company caught in a web of relationships designed for another era. It should not be fed while still caught, because that will leave it trapped until we get tired of feeding it. Then it will die. The only possibility of saving it is to take the risk of cutting it free. In other words, GM should be allowed to go bankrupt.

    Consider the costs of tackling GM's problems with some kind of bailout plan. After 42 years of eroding U.S. market share (from 53% to 20%) and countless announcements of "change," GM still has eight U.S. brands (Cadillac, Saab, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Saturn, Chevrolet and Hummer). As for its more successful compe ors, Toyota (19% market share) has three, and Honda (11%) has two.

    GM has about 7,000 dealers. Toyota has fewer than 1,500. Honda has about 1,000. These fewer and larger dealers are better able to advertise, stock and service the cars they sell. GM knows it needs fewer brands and dealers, but the dealers are protected from termination by state laws. This makes eliminating them and the brands they sell very expensive. It would cost GM billions of dollars and many years to reduce the number of dealers it has to a number near Toyota's.

    Foreign-owned manufacturers who build cars with American workers pay wages similar to GM's. But their expenses for benefits are a fraction of GM's. GM is contractually required to support thousands of workers in the UAW's "Jobs Bank" program, which guarantees nearly full wages and benefits for workers who lose their jobs due to automation or plant closure. It supports more retirees than current workers. It owns or leases enormous amounts of property for facilities it's not using and probably will never use again, and is obliged to support revenue bonds for municipalities that issued them to build these facilities. It has other contractual obligations such as health coverage for union retirees. All of these commitments drain its cash every month. Moreover, GM supports myriad suppliers and supports a huge infrastructure of firms and localities that depend on it. Many of them have contractual claims; they all have moral claims. They all want GM to be more or less what it is.

    And therein lies the problem: The cost of terminating dealers is only a fraction of what it would cost to rebuild GM to become a company sized and marketed appropriately for its market share. Contracts would have to be bought out. The company would have to shed many of its fixed obligations. Some obligations will be impossible to cut by voluntary agreement. GM will run out of cash and out of time.

    GM's solution is to ask the federal government for the cash that will allow it to do all of this piece by piece. But much of the cash will be thrown at unproductive commitments. And the sense of urgency that would enable GM to make choices painful to its management, its workers, its retirees, its suppliers and its localities will simply not be there if federal money is available. Like AIG, it will be back for more, and at the same time it will be telling us that it's doing a great job under difficult cir stances.

    Federal law provides a way out of the web: reorganization under Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code. If GM were told that no assistance would be available without a bankruptcy filing, all options would be put on the table. The web could be cut wherever it needed to be. State protection for dealers would disappear. Labor contracts could be renegotiated. Pension plans could be terminated, with existing pensions turned over to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. (PBGC). Health benefits could be renegotiated. Mortgaged assets could be abandoned, so plants could be closed without being supported as idle hindrances on GM's viability. GM could be rebuilt as a company that had a chance to make vehicles people want and support itself on revenue. It wouldn't be easy but, unlike trying to bail out GM as it is, it wouldn't be impossible.

    The social and political costs would be very large, but if GM fails after getting $50 billion or $100 billion in bailout money, it'll be just as large and there will be less money to soften the blow and even more blame to go around. The PBGC will probably need money to guarantee GM's pensions for its white- and blue-collar workers (pension support is capped at around $40,000 per year, so that won't help executives much). Unemployment insurance will have to be extended and offered to many people, perhaps millions if you include dealers, suppliers and communities dependent on GM as it exists now. A GM bankruptcy will make addressing health-care coverage more urgent, which is probably a good thing. It would require job-retraining money and community assistance to affected localities.

    But unless we are willing to support GM as it is indefinitely, the downsizing and asset-shedding will have to come anyway. Even if it builds cars as attractive and environmentally responsible as those Honda and Toyota will be building, they won't be able to carry the weight of GM's past.

    GM CEO Rick Wagoner says "bankruptcy is not an option." Critics of a bankruptcy say that GM won't be able to get the loans it will need to guarantee warranties, pay its operating losses while it restructures, and preserve customers' ability to finance purchases. While consumers buy tickets from bankrupt airlines, electronics from bankrupt retailers, and apartments from bankrupt builders, they say consumers won't buy cars from a bankrupt auto maker. But bankruptcy no longer means "liquidation" or "out of business" to a generation of consumers used to buying from firms in reorganization.

    GM would guarantee warranty support with a segregated fund if necessary. And debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing -- loans that provide the near-term cash for reorganizing companies -- is very safe, because the DIP lender has priority over all other claimants. In normal markets, it would certainly be available to a GM that has assets to sell, including a viable overseas business. Such financing is probably available even now.

    In any event, it would be lined up before a filing, not after, so any problems wouldn't be a surprise. As a last resort, we could at least consider a public DIP loan to support a reorganizing GM with a good chance to survive -- as opposed to subsidizing a GM slowly deflating.

    The fate of Daewoo -- the Korean auto maker that collapsed in 2000 after filing for bankruptcy, leaving about 500 dealers stranded in the U.S. -- is often cited as "proof" that a GM bankruptcy won't work. But Daewoo was headquartered in a part of the world where bankruptcy still carries a major stigma and usually means liquidation. Daewoo's experience is largely irrelevant to a major U.S. company undergoing a well-publicized positive transformation, almost certainly under new management.

    GM as it is cannot survive without long-term government life support. If it gets that support, it can't change enough and won't change fast enough. Contrary to Mr. Wagoner's brave declaration, bankruptcy is an option. In fact, it's the only option that merits public support and actually has a chance at succeeding.

  11. #11
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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  12. #12
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    Let them reorganize. They are not going to disappear because there is money to be made. Plus, even if they did disappear, that would create a huge opportunity for another stronger domestic auto company.

  13. #13
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    GM in bankruptcy would still needs tons of cash.

    Lenders aren't lending to each other, never mind roadkill like GM.

    The US would still have to be the main lender, the "debtor-in-possession". And the taxpayer would be on the hook for the GM pension obligations, as it was for bankrupt Delphi.

    But bankruptcy does seem to the best way to force the changes that GM has refused to and/or been unable to make.

    But a lot of people, esp dealers and employees, are gonna get smashed in the mouth.

    Then there's Ford, and Chrysler, and, and and ... ?

  14. #14
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Won't GM have erased most of that disparity with Japanese automakers' hourly wages by 2010 due to turning over all retirement benefits to the UAW? GM's final payment into the UAW's retirement fund in 2010 ends their responsibilities for retirement benefits. Basically it seems like GM is just trying to get us to make their payment to the fund. It doesn't look like they're going under in the long term because of the UAW.

  15. #15
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    This whole debate is annoying because US auto makers have for a very long time been almost allergic to innovation, efficiency, and ordinary common sense. GM could have produced sensible cars that appeal to millions of people, and instead focused on gluttonous napolean-complex monstrosities like the Hummer. If we as a country had simply followed the lead of Presidents Ford and Carter on this issue, I think the current crisis would be far less devastating than it is.

    http://www.energybulletin.net/node/9657

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A96E948260

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...to_efficiency/

  16. #16
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    Won't GM have erased most of that disparity with Japanese automakers' hourly wages by 2010 due to turning over all retirement benefits to the UAW? GM's final payment into the UAW's retirement fund in 2010 ends their responsibilities for retirement benefits. Basically it seems like GM is just trying to get us to make their payment to the fund. It doesn't look like they're going under in the long term because of the UAW.
    Link? I'm not an expert on this particular situation, but I haven't read where GM pay-up all retirement benefits, including healthcare cost. If that's the case, I would imagine that would be an astronomical number close to $100 billion or so.

    anyways, a link would be cool.

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  18. #18
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Union panel approves GM contract

    September 29, 2007 in print edition C-3

    General Motors Corp.’s new contract with the United Auto Workers was unanimously approved Friday by a panel of union officers, clearing the way for a vote by rank-and-file members within 12 days.

    Under the four-year agreement, GM will put $29.9 billion into a retiree health trust fund that takes effect in January 2010, according a union summary. GM will continue to pay retiree healthcare costs at the current rate, estimated to total $5.4 billion, until the fund takes over, the UAW said.

    The deal, highlighted by the retiree fund, included other provisions that GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said he required to close a $25-to-$30-an-hour labor gap with Toyota Motor Corp. In exchange for the concessions, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger gets job guarantees and pay improvements for his workers.

    “The UAW took care of their membership; GM took care of their shareholders,” said Richard Block, a labor professor at Michigan State University. “The people who will be voting on this will be pretty happy.”

    About 175 officials from UAW locals voted on the accord at a meeting of the union’s National Bargaining Council in Detroit. The vote in favor was unanimous, Gettelfinger said. He said he expected the union’s 73,000 GM members to approve the deal as well.

    Detroit-based GM declined to comment.

    The union said the average worker would gain $13,056 over the life of the agreement, based on a 2,080-hour year and 10% overtime. That includes a $3,000 bonus in the first year with a 3% bonus in the second year, 4% in the third and 3% in the fourth. An assembly worker’s hourly rate will rise to $28.85 at the end of the fourth year from $28.12.

    GM, the largest U.S. automaker, and the union reached the agreement Wednesday after a two-day strike. If ratified in votes scheduled through Oct. 10, it would replace a four-year contract that expired Sept. 14.

  19. #19
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    So $40 billion to pay-up healthcare for retirees. What are the healthcare cost for current employees? Then take into account retirement benefits. It doesn't seem like my $100 billion figure was too far off.
    Last edited by 2centsworth; 11-19-2008 at 05:12 PM.

  20. #20
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I misread it. Apparently a lot of reducing that $25/hour gap is also in offering buyouts to current workers covered under the original plan and not paying those ridiculous benefits with their new generation of hires.

  21. #21
    Beware of the Voices Bigzax's Avatar
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    em.

  22. #22
    Believe. Anti.Hero's Avatar
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    They quit making the Hummer H1 Alpha

  23. #23
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    What role, if any, have CAFE standards played in the decline of the Big 3?

  24. #24
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    What role, if any, have CAFE standards played in the decline of the Big 3?
    The lax enforcement of CAFE standards have KILLED the Big 3. If the standards would have been increased and more stringent, they would not be losing market share to the car companies that made fuel efficiency a priority (and are still healthy by the way).

  25. #25
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    the useless current CAFE standards are what the Big3 wanted, and they fought/bought aggressively against more aggressive CAFE standards, which should be part of any rescue plan.

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