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my Hyundai Elantra only cost $13800. I don't see how detroit can compete with companies like Hyundai when Detroit has to deal with the UAW.
Overpaid and paid fairly are obviously different. Without unions a lot of low skill workers won't be paid fair, living wages. Hate to break it, but everyone isn't blessed with the skills of an engineer or the brainpower of a doctor. If you work to the best of your potential you shouldn't be screwed either. Unions originally performed this balancing task admirably, but many unions like the UAW have gone too far and helped bring about their demise (along with the brainless executives and short-sighted managers).
By the way, do you really think Toyota and Honda would be paying even as much as they do if it werent for the UAW and having to be mildly compe ive on wages with them?
my Hyundai Elantra only cost $13800. I don't see how detroit can compete with companies like Hyundai when Detroit has to deal with the UAW.
I am routinely surprised by members here at ST revealing what kind of cars they drive.
I wouldnt drive a Hyundai/Toyota/Honda if those companies paid me to. Theyre well engineered and cheap, but ugly as in my opinion.
Democrats Ask Automakers for Way Forward
WASHINGTON — Democratic Congressional leaders said on Thursday that the executives of America’s foundering automakers had failed miserably in persuading Congress or the public that $25 billion in aid from the government would be well-spent and they gave industry leaders 12 days to come back with a plan showing otherwise.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/bu...gewanted=print
I'm not embarrassed about Hyundai Elantras... it was cheap, and its been great for 4 years so far.
Before I bought it, I also test drove a Mini Cooper... man, what a great ride... base price was $18,500 back then though, I couldn't afford that back then.
Now, I would not drive a Honda.
edit: maybe my next car will be one of these:
Last edited by Bender; 11-20-2008 at 04:28 PM.
[QUOTE=boutons_;2913324]"It's silly that some of you think that the collapse of these 3 will not affect you at all"
The Treasury would be creating money, at it is for the financial sector robbery, selling debt to foreigners (if it can). The interest, in real money, must be paid(exported) on time, no defaulting, or the foreigners would not buy the debt in the first place.
Do you realize near 50 percent of the taxes collected by Uncle Sam each year go towards paying interest to our national debt and or loans from the Chinese?
ing disgusting. That # is only growing each year.
Yes, I read a long time ago how many $Bs go to paying cold cash on the national debt.
The Repug/neo-c*nt bull war in Iraq is adding a few $T to that debt, and 100s of $Bs cold cash to pay just the interest on that debt. EXACTLY as planned by the Repug/neo-c*nt cabal to destroy the US govt.
A very sensible piece from a guy who knows alot about the business.
As much as I don't like his personality and admit there's probably an agenda, I completely agree with his assessment.
The companies I feel bad for are the suppliers who are mostly/solely dependent on these automakers for their business....oh well.
NO TO AN AUTO BAILOUT!
GM pensioners....the single largest buyer of Viagra. That's right, when you buy a GM car, you're paying for some lazy fat bas s hardon.
Shouldn't "well engineered and cheap" trump "ugly"?
Isn't that, perhaps, part of why GM, Ford, and Chrysler are like lambs led to the slaughter? Because they were, for many years, far less well-engineered?
Then again, I have a 1950 Chrysler Royal (well-engineered and not ugly), a 1984 Pontiac Sunbird Conv. (not well-engineered and aesthetics debatable, though I love it), and a 2000 Daewoo Nubira (middling engineering but pleasing small-car aesthetics).
I had a Pontiac Century I put 200,000 miles on and sold it for a grand.
If there is one lesson to be learned from GM, is that you can't give people health benefits like that. Hopefully our government takes the que.
i'm not anti-union, i've seen the good they could do for underskilled workers...
in different industries, i.e., service, telecom, plumbing, electrical, it can be a great system...i usually vote democrat, so i even usually give the party of unions my support...but when you take a business model that was built around the industrial age, and don't make any serious changes for the better at it, it becomes less compe ive...the burden on business/share holders gets passed on to the consumer(one of the few times i almost agree w/trickle down business, they'll pass on the cost, but never pass the profits) and so the consumer turns elsewhere...so if the govt took care of the basic human needs that they should, like healthcare, retirement, education, and disability then the unions and companies wouldn't need to...
so....
if other states like texas can use this to their benefit, i'm all for it, which would force the other states to follow suit or lose business' then population...which is why we grow and the housing/credit bust is having less of an affect on us...
Hmm, well I totally agree about your reasoning. With universal healthcare, a huge portion of the overhanging UAW benefit-based debt would be unnecessary.
That business model has become very successful for Hyudai...Shouldn't "well engineered and cheap" trump "ugly"?
I actually liked the look of their Sonatas.
Hyundai has actually been making cars of exceedingly good quality, and their Alabama plant is extremely efficient. It helps that their SUVs take less man-hours to assemble than most GM cars.
I drove one for 200K+ miles in college with very little problems...not too bad for a 'disposible car'....
because looks will keep them running forever
the have no plans now
do you think they can come up with one in 12 days when they have been failing for years
I'd bet they can come up with a plan in 12 days. It isn't that hard to see the myriad areas where they are inefficient.
The difficulty will be in implementing the drastic changes.
It's dealing with the complacency and short-sightedness of all the parties involved that have ignored these solutions. That's what boggles the mind.
When you factor all of the ancillary jobs that are dependent on the Big Three, you're talking roughly 10 million jobs.
Part of the solution will be the Union's willingness to renegotiate their contracts and that's going to be a tough sell. Negotiating a lower wage and benefit package beats the alternative of not having a job.
Does anyone know if their health care premiums covered in full after retirement? If so, that needs to change; I'm a union worker (AFSCME), and after retirement there is an escalating cost for Medical coverage. I'm not sure how much, but in talking with a recent retiree, it's around $50 a month the first year, and I was told it goes up to around $200 a month by the 4th year.
What the is a "Hyudai"?
What the do you know? People that spent 30 years working for one company are now "lazy, fat bas s"?
you, you ignorant prick.
It was just an observation, you walking, talking example of a failed public school system.
No, it isn't that hard for a competent businessman to see the myriad areas in which GM is inefficient, but GM isn't run by competent businessmen. It is run by accountants.
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