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If you did not save during the good times, you will after this .
He isn't president yet, dummy. (with all due affection to my favorite curmudgeon)
Kind of hard to issue executive orders and intiate policy proposals before you actually, say take the oath of office.
If you did not save during the good times, you will after this .
Tell us all about the big bad NAU, and the FEMA Death Camps.
here's a little perspective on this market. Go back to 2000 to 2002. The Dow reached a high of 12,000 and the Nasdaq hit 5000!!! Then the internet bubble burst, then 9/11, and then massive corporate fraud was discovered in 2002. There was zero confidence in the market. Then came all sorts of incentives to invest such as, capital gains tax reductions, income tax reductions, low..low... interest rates, incentives for capital expenditures. The market responded extremely well and we almost recovered fully except in the Nasdaq, but even it was starting to roll.
Then what?
try and explain yourself if you can. wait...let me guess, Iraq?
Massive amounts of cash was created for low-income housing/sub-prime loans. Then, because of deregulation (see glass steagall '33 & Gramm Leach Biley act of '99) , investment banks and insurers perverted those loans into credit default swaps and other derivatives. Now this is where we are today.
And how do we get out of this?
Or maybe that the recovery was founded on easy money and pyramid schemes with 30-1 cash-to-value leverage on mortgages that in some cases didn't exist and in others were certain to fail. The home equity loans that then came about and allowed people to put electronics and retailers in good positions, etc.... Until it was realized that it was a farce through and through.
You know, a bubble.
Oh, and also, yeah, Iraq hurt. Without Iraq, it would have been a of a lot less painful to "stimulate" the economy.
Either you are or you aren't
What exactly do you want Obama to do?
Doing nothing is pretty much want self-claimed libertarians want.
But that isn't Bush's fault. It's Obama's that it cost a smooth trillion out of pocket and a couple more on the back end where nobody will see it.
What'a a few trill between neocons?
moratorium on captial gains taxes for purchases over the next two years. Aggressive incentives for capital expenditures.
Foreclosure assistance, slash interest rates, more government spending.
you can't start making stuff up because it sounds good to you. Now if you're talking about investment banks and deregulation I'm with you.
so it's a home equity loan crises and not a sub-prime crises?The home equity loans that then came about and allowed people to put electronics and retailers in good positions, etc.... Until it was realized that it was a farce through and through.
I just blew a bubble, which one are you talking about.You know, a bubble.
really? some would argue wars are stimulative. I bet you made that one up too.Oh, and also, yeah, Iraq hurt. Without Iraq, it would have been a of a lot less painful to "stimulate" the economy.
First, my point was that the fractional reserve rate is 10-1. The credit default swaps were creating value at 30-1. In many cases, they were based on non-real mortgages that were projected to be created. Basically, my point was that sub-prime mortgages themselves would be easy to save or subsidize at some level and that deregulation is far, far, far, far more to blame.
My second point was that home equity went up across the board, even for people who weren't involved in some aspect of the sub-prime/house-flipping market. So this "false" equity was invested in various depreciable assets, propping up retailers (which we are a nation of). That is also pretty much quashed.
To say that the crisis is "just a mortgage crisis" or to over-compartmentalize the nature of the problems inherent in this market collapse is goofy. I wasn't saying it was one or the other, but that there are many factors (often intertwining). Maybe I rambled it all together a bit, but it wasn't totally incoherent as you seem to be making it out to be.
The bubble is multi-part, maybe like a Venn-diagram-bubble. Can't think of a great visual.
Lastly - the Iraq war may have profited some contractors, but there is no way that you can point to our massively increased National Debt, and then look at the war expenditures, and say "yeah that was stimulative"!
it damn sure is a stimulant to the economy, but you have to be in the loop of people that steal you blind.try and explain yourself if you can. wait...let me guess, Iraq?
all the powerful people were cut loose to run free by this administration, yet you imply that obama is the little whisper among speculators.
you know, carrying bush's water is going to be for the long haul.
If that's the case, how do you ever even post to Spurstalk?
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 11-20-2008 at 07:06 PM.
Just give everyone who's not a millionaire already, $1 million dollars. The idiots will blow it spurring the economy, the smart ones will pay off debts and invest, both of which having a positive effect on our economy. While also trickling up to the rich that being the business owners, bankers etc.
300,000,000 people multiplied by 1,000,000 is a lot lot lot of zeroes.
I just made my credit card payment to them, .56 cents. They charge me some bull 50 cents every month for some credit monitoring thing. I'd just rather pay the 50 cents plus tax than try to call and fight someone to cancel it. It was my first credit card so I don't want to cancel it, but I stopping using it after I read the book Maxed Out and they gave examples as to how shady of a company Citi is.
Well, 300 Trillion Zimbabwean Dollars would only be slightly less than 20 cents.
Edit: 2 cents.
The rate is 13 Quadrillion New Z$ for One American Dollar. In pre-July 2008 dollars, the rate would be 130 Sextillion Dollars per One American Dollar.
Last edited by kwhitegocubs; 11-20-2008 at 07:38 PM.
Stop doing and talking about bailouts, and make the markets fix themselves again.
And how does that happen?
"MAKE them fix themselves"? No one can make them fix THEMSELVES. That would have already happened right? If they were capable, willing, or comepetent to do so?
I assume, Domesticated Garter, that you simply want the "free market" to fix what the "free market" brought about.
WC sticks his out of his conservative ivory tower, and spews bull about free markets being self-policing and self-correcting.
It's been demonstrated over and over that greed driving individuals and organizations is NOT self-correcting, self-limiting. Unregulated greed does not benefit the common good.
eg: greedy fisherman stuffing their boats until fishing populations collapse. And the over-fished fish off New England and off Europe have not "corrected", are still unfishable, 10 years later.
Same with greed driving demand for oil, gas, water. The greed is not sustainable because the resources are not sustainable.
etc, etc, etc.
Unbridled, unregulated greed and self-interest got us into this financial crisis, but that's OK with WC, because if we just hang around long enough, do nothing, the economy will fix itself in x years.
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