Still @ .500 in Two Weeks?

[exstatic]

Kobe's Future is 5-7 years away, this is happening this week

Kobe is about 1 year younger than Manu and has more NBA miles than Duncan. Any discussions of their pending demise have to include him.

You're in complete denial because it's not fun to talk about, but Kobe's hops are going down the drain within the next two years. Book it. His lateral quickness will be next. It's not a 5-7 year window, it's 2-5.

[Allanon]

Kobe is about 1 year younger than Manu and has more NBA miles than Duncan. Any discussions of their pending dmise have to include him.

You're in complete denial because it's not fun to talk about, but Kobe's hops are going down the drain within the next two years. Book it. His lateral quickness will be next. It's not a 5-7 year window, it's 2-5.

I'm not in denial, I just don't know. I've talked at length about it with m33po but no conclusion and he and I arguing about it would take us nowhere.

There's really no precedent for it yet as far as I know. I think the only current example of the high-school to pro mileage is KG vs Duncan. They're both the same age with KG having 2 years more NBA mileage.

Right now, I would say KG and Duncan are pretty much right at the same rate. We'll know more in 3 years but I have a feeling KG will outlast Duncan in the NBA.

If anything, KG is proof that the NBA mileage doesn't mean much as KG so far has 2 years on Duncan but both are about the same in fitness.

[xellos88330]

The team is looking more like a team now. If everyone keeps contributing and playing well off of each other (and polishing the out of the glass), I do not believe it will be a stretch to see them go 6-3.

Besides if Enigma keeps making the blogs, the Spurs have a good chance of winning.

[sandman]

Yeah, the Spurs were down by 15 points and already on their way to a blow-out when Tony was injured. Even Pop said it in his post-game interview.

A 10-0 run between 4:15 and 2:00 on the game clock in the first quarter cons utes being on their way to a blow out? The game was a 15-point win. So outside of that 10-0 run over roughly two minutes in the FIRST quarter, this was a 5-6 point game. On top of that, Tim only played 28 total minutes in that game, meaning that he only played 18 minutes after Parker left the game in the first quarter and only one minute of the last 4:00 minutes of the 3rd quarter and all of the 4th.

DWade, Marion and Haslem all played 36+ minutes, most of which were against a team w/out Manu, Parker or Duncan. DWade was still in the game taking 20-foot jumpers in the final two minutes of a blowout, scoring 10 points after Duncan left the game for the last time. In fact, if you look at the play-by-play for that game, these three were still in the game when the Heat had a 10-12 point lead with less than two minutes and jacking up shots against scrubs with 12-15 seconds left on the shot clock.

Even with Timy not playing most of the second half and the Heat starters jacking up shots in the last two minutes, the Spurs were only outscored by a total of two points after the first quarter. If you honestly believe that a Spurs team with a healthy TP for the entire game would not have been able to overcome a 10-0 run over a few minutes in the game, then you don't understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game.

And considering that your root for a team coached by the King of Pop Psychology, you should know what it means when a coach makes that type of comment.

[Allanon]

A 10-0 run between 4:15 and 2:00 on the game clock in the first quarter cons utes being on their way to a blow out? The game was a 15-point win. So outside of that 10-0 run over roughly two minutes in the FIRST quarter, this was a 5-6 point game. On top of that, Tim only played 28 total minutes in that game, meaning that he only played 18 minutes after Parker left the game in the first quarter and only one minute of the last 4:00 minutes of the 3rd quarter and all of the 4th.

DWade, Marion and Haslem all played 36+ minutes, most of which were against a team w/out Manu, Parker or Duncan. DWade was still in the game taking 20-foot jumpers in the final two minutes of a blowout, scoring 10 points after Duncan left the game for the last time. In fact, if you look at the play-by-play for that game, these three were still in the game when the Heat had a 10-12 point lead with less than two minutes and jacking up shots against scrubs with 12-15 seconds left on the shot clock.

Even with Timy not playing most of the second half and the Heat starters jacking up shots in the last two minutes, the Spurs were only outscored by a total of two points after the first quarter. If you honestly believe that a Spurs team with a healthy TP for the entire game would not have been able to overcome a 10-0 run over a few minutes in the game, then you don't understand the ebb and flow of a basketball game.

And considering that your root for a team coached by the King of Pop Psychology, you should know what it means when a coach makes that type of comment.

The Spurs were playing VERY poorly to start the seaons (0-3) and the Spurs needed Overtime to win against the lowly TimberWolves. Duncan didn't get much burn because of the extended garbaage time.

I watched the game and it looked to be a loss a couple minutes in, there was absolutely no defense, no energy, guys were just off. And I don't believe the Spurs have rallied from a 15 point deficit this year yet.

[Tully365]

It's always hard to predict how a player will perform as he ages, but if you look at a guy like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, it's interesting to see how his stats probably fooled the experts at least a couple of times during the span of his career.

Kareem's age and scoring averages:

Age 27-- 30 ppg
28-- 27.7
29--26.2
30-- 25.8
31-- 23.8

I'm sure that at this point (the end of the '78-'79 season), many thought that Kareem was in a slow but steady state of decline. In a 5 year span, his scoring average had decreased every single year. Here are the next 5 years:

age 32-- 24.8
33-- 26.2
34-- 23.9
35-- 21.8
36-- 21.5

At age 33, Kareem matches his age 29 scoring production... and then sees 3 seasons of declining numbers.

age 37-- 22 ppg
age 38-- 23.4

Again, Kareem defies probability and has a better scoring average at age 38 than he did for ages 35-37.

Kareem, of course, is not a typical NBA player. But then, neither is Tim Duncan.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...abdulka01.html

[z0sa]

I'm not in denial, I just don't know. I've talked at length about it with m33po but no conclusion and he and I arguing about it would take us nowhere.

There's really no precedent for it yet as far as I know. I think the only current example of the high-school to pro mileage is KG vs Duncan. They're both the same age with KG having 2 years more NBA mileage.

Right now, I would say KG and Duncan are pretty much right at the same rate. We'll know more in 3 years but I have a feeling KG will outlast Duncan in the NBA.

If anything, KG is proof that the NBA mileage doesn't mean much as KG so far has 2 years on Duncan but both are about the same in fitness.

Tim has far more PO wear and tear on his body, which is much more strenuous than regular season "don't even have a chance to make the playoffs" basketball for KG. KG vs TD is no comparison in this regard.

[Allanon]

Tim has far more PO wear and tear on his body, which is much more strenuous than regular season "don't even have a chance to make the playoffs" basketball for KG. KG vs TD is no comparison in this regard.

That is a good point.

Tim has double the number of Playoff games than Garnett so let's add 1 more year of NBA wear and tear to Duncan. And since it's Playoffs, let's add another 40 games. This brings it down to about 40 more games that KG has played than Duncan.

[FromWayDowntown]

WTF memories did Michael Beasley have of the Alamodome? He never played a game there.

Chalmers did; but Beasley didn't.

[sandman]

The Spurs were playing VERY poorly to start the seaons (0-3) and the Spurs needed Overtime to win against the lowly TimberWolves. Duncan didn't get much burn because of the extended garbaage time.

I watched the game and it looked to be a loss a couple minutes in, there was absolutely no defense, no energy, guys were just off. And I don't believe the Spurs have rallied from a 15 point deficit this year yet.

So if the Spurs matched them point for point after the first quarter with no defense, no energy, no Manu/TP, Timmy sitting through all the garbage time and everyone being off, what does that say about the Heat who played their starters through the end of the game?

As far as rallying down from 15 points, do you even know how many times the Spurs have been down by 15 in the 12 games they have played this season?

[Allanon]

WTF memories did Michael Beasley have of the Alamodome? He never played a game there.

Chalmers did; but Beasley didn't.

In that ESPN special interview before the Miami/Spurs game, he was saying that NOT making it is what drives him. He felt like he left his cards on the table.

This is the same with Rose, he left un-finished business in San Antonio.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

KG relies a lot more on athleticism and speed than Timmy, that turnaround 15 foot fade away KG loves with his back to the basket is going to age a lot quicker than Duncan's bank shot and hook shot. Duncan does have more mileage but doesn't need as much youth, it's basically a wash between the two.

[Allanon]

So if the Spurs matched them point for point after the first quarter with no defense, no energy, no Manu/TP, Timmy sitting through all the garbage time and everyone being off, what does that say about the Heat who played their starters through the end of the game?

I don't know? That the Heat aren't a very good team?

As far as rallying down from 15 points, do you even know how many times the Spurs have been down by 15 in the 12 games they have played this season?

None as far as I've seen, I've only missed a couple of games (TWolves, part of the Jazz game and a couple others). Which game was it that they rallied from being down 15?

[z0sa]

That is a good point.

Tim has double the number of Playoff games than Garnett so let's add 1 more year of NBA wear and tear to Duncan. And since it's Playoffs, let's add another 40 games. This brings it down to about 40 more games that KG has played than Duncan.

In all reality, I would go as far to say the regular seasons were tougher on TD, despite having a better supporting cast, at least after the all-star break, with the Spurs were vying for top seed generally while Minny vied for the lottery. I'm not questioning KG's effort, just how much he really cared at the ends of games, etc.

[Allanon]

Again, Kareem defies probability and has a better scoring average at age 38 than he did for ages 35-37.

Kareem, of course, is not a typical NBA player. But then, neither is Tim Duncan.

That's a very good analysis. And as you mentioned, it's very hard to say because these aren't your average Joe Schmoe type of players. Kareem, Malone, Jordan played until they were about 40. The new crop Duncan, KG, Kobe, AI...who knows what age they will play until...very hard to say with extraordinary players.

So far, I haven't seen evidence to the NBA mileage...I agree with DuncanownsKobe thati it's pretty much a wash so far. Possibly because NBA players have better healthcare, better facilities and posher lives than college players. I read somewhere that Kobe has a team of people whose sole job is to watch his health...no college player can afford that.

We'll know better in a couple of years.

[z0sa]

Just got word Manu is coming back tonight. I think we can safely say there's going to be a lot more for HOU, DEN, and DET to worry about now than hanging all over Timmy the whole game.

[sandman]

None as far as I've seen, I've only missed a couple of games (TWolves, part of the Jazz game and a couple others). Which game was it that they rallied from being down 15?

None. They have been down by 15 twice, both in losses to DAL and MIA during that 1-4 start.

I was just checking to see if you had looked it up yourself, because your comment made it sound like they make a regular habit of losing ball games because they go down by 15. "Never" is technically correct since it has happened twice this season, but it exaggerates the point, especially considering the 'tale of two teams' that the Spurs have starred in this year between the first five games and the last seven games.

I don't think that Rose is going to be more of a factor than the 19ppg he has been putting up all season, because it makes no psychological sense that a professional athlete is going to be motivated to play better than normal because he is going to be in a city where he experienced bad times as a college player. It wasn't even against a college team from SA, the city just happened to be the venue.

[FromWayDowntown]

it makes no psychological sense that a professional athlete is going to be motivated to play better than normal because he is going to be in a city where he experienced bad times as a college player. It wasn't even against a college team from SA, the city just happened to be the venue.

Indeed.

It makes far more sense that Michael Beasley wanted to play well against Tim Duncan and the Spurs when the Heat visited in early November because both Duncan and his team have been the measuring sticks for NBA bigmen and their teams for the last decade or so.

That would have been true if the game had been in San Antonio or Corpus Christi.

[Allanon]

None. They have been down by 15 twice, both in losses to DAL and MIA during that 1-4 start.

I was just checking to see if you had looked it up yourself, because your comment made it sound like they make a regular habit of losing ball games because they go down by 15. "Never" is technically correct since it has happened twice this season, but it exaggerates the point, especially considering the 'tale of two teams' that the Spurs have starred in this year between the first five games and the last seven games.

Yes, I've watched most of the Spurs games, that's why I said I don't recall them coming back from 15 points. I did miss a couple of games due to being busy.

I don't think that Rose is going to be more of a factor than the 19ppg he has been putting up all season, because it makes no psychological sense that a professional athlete is going to be motivated to play better than normal because he is going to be in a city where he experienced bad times as a college player. It wasn't even against a college team from SA, the city just happened to be the venue.

Indeed.

It makes far more sense that Michael Beasley wanted to play well against Tim Duncan and the Spurs when the Heat visited in early November because both Duncan and his team have been the measuring sticks for NBA bigmen and their teams for the last decade or so.

That would have been true if the game had been in San Antonio or Corpus Christi.

Beasley said it himself in the ESPN interview, didn't you guys watch it? He was saying it when they showed him in the bus driving past the Alamodome. It was in the pre-game show.

I'll take his words on national TV rather than your opinion if you don't mind.

[sandman]

Yes, I've watched most of the Spurs games, that's why I said I don't recall them coming back from 15 points. I did miss a couple of games due to being busy.





Beasley said it himself in the ESPN interview, didn't you guys watch it? He was saying it when they showed him in the bus driving past the Alamodome. It was in the pre-game show.

I'll take his words on national TV rather than your opinion if you don't mind.

Hey, there have been many things come from the mouths of professional athletes that make you do a "WTF??"

If Beasley needed to drive by the Alamodome and remember his failings from college as a motivator to play against a team that has been the measuring stick of success in the NBA for the last decade, then the boy has a weaker mind than I thought.

That's like me stating that I want to play well in our next beer league softball game because my ex-girlfriend used to work for the company that sponsors the other team...

[m33p0]

Right now, I would say KG and Duncan are pretty much right at the same rate. We'll know more in 3 years but I have a feeling KG will outlast Duncan in the NBA.

Disagree. KD uses athleticism. Duncan uses skills. Skills lasts. Legs don't. The only thing KD would still have that is in better than Duncan's at the end of their respective careers will be his ability to run his mouth off.

[z0sa]

This is the particularly bad stretch in the schedule, this is what I think (assuming Tony/Manu aren't back for these)

@MEM - L ... W
CHI - L
MEM - W
@HOU - L
DET - L
@DEN - L
GSW - W
DAL - L
ATL - L

Already off on your predictions. Not a poke, just curious why you picked us to lose to Memphis first thing? Cmon.

[mystargtr34]

I'm not in denial, I just don't know. I've talked at length about it with m33po but no conclusion and he and I arguing about it would take us nowhere.

There's really no precedent for it yet as far as I know. I think the only current example of the high-school to pro mileage is KG vs Duncan. They're both the same age with KG having 2 years more NBA mileage.

Right now, I would say KG and Duncan are pretty much right at the same rate. We'll know more in 3 years but I have a feeling KG will outlast Duncan in the NBA.

If anything, KG is proof that the NBA mileage doesn't mean much as KG so far has 2 years on Duncan but both are about the same in fitness.

------------07-08-----------------

Garnett -------------- Duncan
18.8 PPG ------------- 19.3 PPG
9.2 RPG -------------- 11.3 RPG
1.3 BPG --------------- 1.9 BPG
4.7 FTA --------------- 5.9 FTA


-------------08-09--------------

Garnett---------------- Duncan
16.1 PPG -------------- 22.4 PPG
8.7 RPG --------------- 10 RPG
1.1 BPG --------------- 1.5 BPG
2.3 FTA --------------- 5.9 FTA

Garnett's minutes have stayed the same, Duncans have upped slightly. Per 40 numbers are also down alot for KG, Tims are nearly identical to his MVP seasons.

Id like to know what your basis is for saying Tim Duncan and Garnett are declining 'at the same rate'?

[sandman]

07-08

Garnett Duncan
18.8 PPG 19.3 PPG
9.2 RPG 11.3 RPG
1.3 BPG 1.9 BPG
4.7 FTA 5.9 FTA


08-09

Garnett Duncan
16.1 PPG 22.4 PPG
8.7 RPG 10 RPG
1.1 BPG 1.5 BPG
2.3 FTA 5.9 FTA

Garnett's minutes have stayed the same, Duncans have upped slightly. Per 40 numbers are also down alot for KG, Tims are nearly identical to his MVP seasons.

Id like to know what your basis is for saying Tim Duncan and Garnett are declining 'at the same rate'?

To keep the debate fair, Garnett for the first time last year in a Big Three environment and has readily admitted giving up some of his stats for Pierce and Allen...

[mystargtr34]

To keep the debate fair, Garnett for the first time last year in a Big Three environment and has readily admitted giving up some of his stats for Pierce and Allen...

Fair enough, Tim Duncan was pretty much a one man show in 2003, yet hes per 40 minute numbers are nearly identical now as they were then. The drop in numbers is more to do with a drop in minutes.