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Lebron has never deserved one. Kobe has deserved two considering he's the real star of his generation.The one thing Steve Nash and Kobe Bryant have in common is that they each have an MVP trophy that belongs to Lebron James.
+ Cavs won 50 games that year.
Lebron has never deserved one. Kobe has deserved two considering he's the real star of his generation.The one thing Steve Nash and Kobe Bryant have in common is that they each have an MVP trophy that belongs to Lebron James.
You're right. Lebron deserves two by this point, one of which was given to Kobe. Kobe deserves zero considering he's the real star of his generation that can't win unless he's surrounded by talent. KG did more with less talent than Kobe did, and deserved his MVP only slightly less than Kobe did his.
Lebron and Kobe are both all around players that should be an MVP. Although Lebron is not a great defender, he is capable enough. Kobe, when he wants to be, is one of the best defenders in the NBA. So were the other MVP's, unlike Nash, who is a BELOW AVERAGE defender for his position.
Also, Lebron and Kobe have both been the best players on teams that went to the Finals. Nash has never led a team to the Finals.
One of the things that cracks me up is that Duncan has never had the talent around him that Kobe and Nash have, but "experts" and fans often seem to suggest that his success is because of his team. In fact, Nash has always had more talent around him. In 2005 the Suns had a player (Amare) that the Spurs couldn't stp AT ALL. So if Nash is really a MVP type player, and you already have another player who is unstoppable, how can the Suns not win?
The fact is that Bowen always put the lid on Nash. MVP players don't get stopped by single coverage in the playoffs. Not even Dirk.
Lebron will be MVP, but so far he hasnt deserved one
Lebron hasnt done anything yet. The farthest he's gotten is achieving some of the personal achievements Kobe has had for awhile. Also, you're an idiot, everyone who's won multiple les has been surrounded by several HOFers. Shaq wasnt any different, and if youre going to continue your argument then Tim Duncan is much less deserving of his MVP trophy then Kobe considering he's needed two all-stars on his team to do anything as head hancho.
LeBron hasn't done anything yet? He's made it to the finals with half the talent than Kobe ever had when he reached the finals, so I don't get your argument.
Well, unless your argument is Ilgauskas + Boobie + Varejao = Shaq/Malone/Payton/Odom/Gasol
You mean in the leastern conference where his team proceeded to be swept? Maybe if it was the west it would be impressive, but then theyd have just been owned in the first or second round.
Also, Lebron was a wimp. He sat out games due to back spasms or some junk like that. Kobe is still playing with an injured finger.
"and if youre going to continue your argument then Tim Duncan is much less deserving of his MVP trophy then Kobe considering he's needed two all-stars on his team to do anything as head hancho."
WHo were the two allstars that Duncan had in 2003? Parker and Ginobili were not yet close to being allstars, and DRob was a shadow of himself. Duncan won the championship that year as the ONLY star caliber player on the team. Only Olajuwon has done that.
He's put up jaw-dropping statistics and has willed teams stocked with terrible teammates to good records and deep into the playoffs, including taking a horrible team to the finals. If he hasn't deserved one, then Kobe hasn't even deserved to be in the discussion.
Again, Lebron's done a dozen things things Kobe's never done, despite playing in less than half as many seasons, including taking a bad team further than one round into the playoffs.
And some guys who have been surrounded by hall of famers can't beat the Pistons. And, um, what do les have to do with the regular season MVP? Never actually entered the discussion before you brought it up. You really went to work on that strawman, though.
Duncan has two. Make your case for anyone other than Duncan in '01 or '02 and I'll make a better case for Lebron over Kobe.
I know you meant '02 and '03 on Duncan's MVP's.
'01-'02 and '02-'03, right? Oh yeah, I typed it wrong.I know you meant '02 and '03 on Duncan's MVP's.
What in the leastern conference?. As Kobe said put him in the leastern and see watch how well he can do. Two seasons ago lebron didnt even have a reliable jumpshot and was barely above average in defense, which was why his team was swept in the finals.
What does that matter? This isnt a job application, the fact is Kobe has been a better player then Lebron James. Lebron himself even admitted it, so really you're aiming into thin air. If you're going to list Lebrons accomplishments in the leastern conference, you're arguments will fall on deaf ears to anyone with a brain.Again, Lebron's done a dozen things things Kobe's never done, despite playing in less than half as many seasons, including taking a bad team further than one round into the playoffs.
I didnt say Kobe deserved it in 2004, but Lebron certainly didnt deserve it in '07. And you're the one who's brought up his deep playoff run and winning without other talent four times already. Take that away and you got nothing.And some guys who have been surrounded by hall of famers can't beat the Pistons. And, um, what do les have to do with the regular season MVP? Never actually entered the discussion before you brought it up. You really went to work on that strawman, though.
Hey, anyone can make a case for a Nash MVP. Sometimes youre just the best of people who suck.Duncan has two. Make your case for anyone other than Duncan in '01 or '02 and I'll make a better case for Lebron over Kobe.
Anyways, I was just pointing out the stupidity of arguing that you need to win without talent to deserve an MVP. Take away Timmy's other talent, and he has 0 MVP awards and 0 Championships. Case in point: Spurs 0-3 start even with all-star Tony Parker, including losses to Miami and Milwaukee. Even Kobe didnt have pathetic starts like that with much less talent.
Nash's second MVP was a joke. But the biggest crime against humaity was the MVP award Stern UPS'd to Dirk at home after he the bed in the first round. Against the 8 seed. 67 win team lol
Allen Iverson is the most overrated player. Nash is the best Canadian and a 1-time winner of the MVP. The 2005-06 trophy belongs to Kobe Bean Bryant.
"Leastern conference" arguments agianst LeBron are weak.
I guess since LeBron defeated the same team in the playoffs that curbstomped the Lakers in the '04 Finals, LeBron >>> Kobe (+Shaq).
The MVP is for the REGULAR SEASON, not for the playoffs. I agree that he did not play well in the playoffs, but he deserved the MVP-award for pacing the team to a 67-win season, which is still tied for 6th place all-time. Deal with it!
I feel like Kobe should have won it in 2005-2006, not 2006-2007, though. 2006-2007 was a really frustrating season after starting off like 11 over .500
You're arguing with a ing moronic troll. Everybody knows Dirk was hurt in that series and played anyway, and the 19 and 10 he put up on a hobbled foot isn't terrible. 21 s doesn't deserve to be answered. He'll go away if you don't take the bait.
Kobe's not better than LeBron. They're basically 1A and 1B when it comes to who is the best. They're just about equal at this point, and LeBron will pretty soon take over the mantle due to his much younger age and the fact that his career is still on the upswing. Kobe probably won't start declining for another 2-3 years, but he's peaked.
Probably you are right. I assume he belongs to the group of people which would vote their favourite player every year for MVP regardless his performance. I wouldn't wonder if he votes for Kobe even he dropped only 15ppg (okay, that's just an example; I know it's unlikely to happen). Those people are not able to respect the performance of other athletes who can play at the same level or even higher than their own favourite. There are also other players on the floor, not only Kobe in that case (although he is a very good player, no doubt about that)...
Last edited by Sportstudi; 11-25-2008 at 04:50 PM.
whats up with all this nash hate?
When you do something that only a couple of guys in the history of the NBA have done, and you do it more than once, it makes you great. Nice of you dumbasses to abandon the "Look at his ty teammates" defense and jump right into the "Kobe plays in a harder conference" crap.What in the leastern conference?
Lebron's team went to the finals. That same year Kobe's Lakers lost 4-1 to the Suns in the first round. In the elimination game Kobe scored 34 points on 33 shots, had one assist and six turnovers. That's against a team that can't play defense.
Yeah, it's not about the job you do; it's only an award that's supposed to go to the best player in the league. Apparently being a better player doesn't actually matter, since it was given to Kobe as soon as he had a team loaded with talent that started to actually win.
That's true. Kobe has been a better player than Lebron. Like when Lebron was in high school.
Considering who I'm aiming at, I have to say you're right about that.
They all play in the NBA. Again, someone with a brain would have a better retort than "leastern conference".
Let's hear your explanation of this.
Yep, you're right again. Take away the playoff runs and winning without talent and you've got Kobe. Lebron had far better numbers last year but Kobe got the award because his team's record was better.
Shaq and Lebron were great that year. Nash's numbers are artificially inflated and he doesn't play defense. He was the sentimental favorite early, and his name was repeated by mouth-breathers like you. It's the same way Kobe got the award last year.
Again, nobody's suggested that, but it doesn't help the case for Kobe when someone points out that he can't win without talent. , a lot of the time he can't even win with talent.
Yeah, Kobe definitely deserves the first three games of the season MVP. You finally convinced me.Case in point: Spurs 0-3 start even with all-star Tony Parker, including losses to Miami and Milwaukee
"Experts and fans" like who? No one (aside from idiot trolls) ever discredits Duncan and him winning due to his team. Even if that ever was an inkling of an argument, it ended with the Spurs 2002-03 le. I think sometimes fans put it in their head that there's a slight to their favorite team or favorite player when there isn't any at all. Duncan is widely recognized as the greatest power forward in the history of the game by "experts" and analysts and peer players and fans of all teams. What should crack you up more is that you even think that anyone has insinuated that Duncan has had success because of his team. He's had very good and even great teammates, but no one (again except for idiot trolls) questions Duncan or his ability to lead a team to success.
Good Point. I guess I take the trolls too seriously.
Dont worry, both arguments work. No need to be picky.
What arent you getting about this leastern conference concept?Lebron's team went to the finals. That same year Kobe's Lakers lost 4-1 to the Suns in the first round. In the elimination game Kobe scored 34 points on 33 shots, had one assist and six turnovers. That's against a team that can't play defense.
I agree, because otherwise kobe would have won it much earlier. He's been the best player for awhile.Yeah, it's not about the job you do; it's only an award that's supposed to go to the best player in the league. Apparently being a better player doesn't actually matter, since it was given to Kobe as soon as he had a team loaded with talent that started to actually win.
Glad you agree that wasnt past tense.That's true. Kobe has been a better player than Lebron. Like when Lebron was in high school.
Well it looks like were finding a lot to agree on, your criticisms have been aimed into thin air. Good to hear.Considering who I'm aiming at, I have to say you're right about that.
Im not sure why you're disagreeing with facts.They all play in the NBA. Again, someone with a brain would have a better retort than "leastern conference".
Again, this isnt a job application. Lots of people can put up good numbers, MVP's should be all around players.Yep, you're right again. Take away the playoff runs and winning without talent and you've got Kobe. Lebron had far better numbers last year but Kobe got the award because his team's record was better.
Shaq and Lebron were great that year. Nash's numbers are artificially inflated and he doesn't play defense. He was the sentimental favorite early, and his name was repeated by mouth-breathers like you. It's the same way Kobe got the award last year.
Again, nobody's suggested that, but it doesn't help the case for Kobe when someone points out that he can't win without talent. , a lot of the time he can't even win with talent.
Duncan's been in the running for MVP every year of his career that he's been healthy. He's also been, unlike Kobe, the best player on ANY championship team he's been on.And he's also, unlike Kobe, never been considered one of the best players of all time. I think its pretty obvious Timmy was the best player on any championship team, because they could never string a true dynasty together. If there had been someone better maybe the Spurs could have actually had a real dynasty.
As is often stated, Kobe is the best player in the game and will rank among the top 3 or 5 players to ever play basketball. And yes, I know some people are saying Lebron is already better. But Tim Duncan has never and will never be in that discussion. Kobe has just been a better basketball player.
Hey, you were the one talking about talent. Take away Timmy's talent, and he fails.Yeah, Kobe definitely deserves the first three games of the season MVP. You finally convinced me.
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