Why are we using Tony Parker?

[timaios]

LOL you keep posting those +/- numbers in every single post you make... that stat is ing useless... seriously, it's bull .

When Tony was not on the court
6:26 min of George Hill doing nothing -> -8
5:57 min of Vaughn doing nothing -> -6

So you think it's bull ???

[Blackjack]

Plain and simple the problems of this team right now rests on the inability of Pop to get Manu and Tony to play team ball and adjust to Mason and Hill. Pop needs to make some choices and build a standard rotation. Hill and Mason have lost their aggressiveness since the return of the superstars. Tony and Manu are both playing different songs while the rest of the team is playing yet a third song. This team is mediocre unless they can get back to passing the ball. Even then its 4 on 5 as we play with only one big man with any ability.

I don't think it's that Manu and Tony don't want to play team ball, but they're definitely not on the same page when it comes to timing and chemistry. Tony's decision making in crucial stretches since he's been back has been borderline terrible and Manu is clearly not Manu at the moment.

Pop's decision to bench Hill was a mistake IMO, and if he doesn't learn from it, it's the kind of mistake that could cost the team down the line. Sure, Hill picked up a couple fouls and had to play a little tenative defensively, but there's no excuse for him not to play in the second half when he's got 4 fouls to give. Vaughn should be nothing more than insurance for blow-outs, injury, or come playoff time when you're out of options. It's nothing against Vaughn, but him being on the court means Hill's losing much-needed reps that a rookie needs if you expect them to contibute down the stretch.

The veterans (Parker,Mason,and Ginobili) also need to defer to Hill a little, instead of looking to take the ball from him as soon as he gets across half-court. You'd love for Hill to wave them off and just play aggressively, but he's a rookie. Pop and the vets know what he's capable of, so they need to give him legit opportunities to fail or succeed now, so that they have a much needed weapon when playoff time comes around.

Duncan playing soft did not help matters but the ball doesn't just magically appear in duncan's hands, it starts with the guards. BBall 101.

To use one of Duncan's terms... That's re ed.

He was pretty much the only guy out there doing anything, and the team just looked content to have Tim bail there ass out.

The team as a whole played tenative, lacked intensity, lacked focus, and I'm sure Pop would say soft, (especially after going up 10) but I can't say that about Tim individually.

[kace]

LOL you keep posting those +/- numbers in every single post you make... that stat is ing useless... seriously, it's bull .

yes, it's bull when it isn't brought for manu or tim like it has been done millions of times.

let me explain this stat: when tp was on the court, we've won. when he was out we've lost. you've got it or it's still too hard.

this stats, like others, doesn't explain the whole thing anyway, that's for sure.

[tlongII]

Spurs' fans just need to realize that you no longer have an elite team. No shame in that. You had a nice run!

[Blackjack]

Spurs' fans just need to realize that you no longer have an elite team. No shame in that. You had a nice run!

The Spurs aren't elite???

You mind telling us Spur fans what that's like? (You are a Blazer fan afterall)

[mVp]

this stats, like others, doesn't explain the whole thing anyway, that's for sure.

That's kinda my point, the stat might be useful but y'all people use it the wrong way... think about it.

And chill the out, y'all Tony homers, I'm not hating on your boy LOL

[The Truth #6]

We've definitely lost urgency. A lot of players don't know what their role is anymore.

[1usamotorsports.com]

All I know is when parker and manu were out , mason and hill were holdin it down . These guys were sick . Manu is a star player and he has been sucking big time .
GIVE HILL AND MASON MORE PLAYING TIME~!~~!!!~~~!!!~~!!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Because
With TP 35:37min Spurs are +2
Without TP 12:23min Spurs are -14

3 shots in garbage time.

[Slinkyman]

Pop should have let Manu gel with the team before bringing tony back, now we have two guys who haven't been around for the past month and they've thrown off the chemistry we had, we get past this but it won't be pretty. It's almost like preseason V1.2

[Blackjack]

3 shots in garbage time.

I actually cheered Tony blowing that lay-up at the end.

I can't stand seeing players (whether they're on my team or not) all of a sudden finding their aggressiveness to put points on the board when the games out of reach.

[T Park]

Parker made some bad plays tonight and played bad defense, but I don't think he "looked hurt"

I think not playing George Hill hardly at all was a problem, and I think the offense festering like a stagnant puddle in the middle of august in SA was a problem as well.

I think guys like Mason and and Ginobili played wreckless and horrible with the ball tonight.

I think the rotation defense out to Wallace, Prince, and Stuckey was pathetic and slow.


No reasons to panic or whatever, but I'm sure the armchair quarterbacks here will do that anyways and freak out for no reason....

[Kori Ellis]

You should start one of these threads for every guy on the team outside Duncan

The Spurs were HORRIBLE tonight. Give some credit to Detroit for outworking them but everything about the Spurs was bad. Manu and Tony were really lazy with their passing/hanging on to the ball, plus they were weak (I won't say soft) with their drives. George Hill was bad enough in his short stint that Pop turned to Vaughn. And don't get me started about Ime Udoka. I know that he has a good game every 1 out of 15 and everybody rallies around him and starts saying he's Bowen Jr. But he's just not that good. Next time he has a good game, trade him the next morning for a big body - young, old - doesn't matter.

The only person who was worth anything to the Spurs tonight was TD. And when Detroit turned up the heat in the 4th, he was pretty useless too.

[kace]

I actually cheered Tony blowing that lay-up at the end.

I can't stand seeing players (whether they're on my team or not) all of a sudden finding their aggressiveness to put points on the board when the games out of reach.

Tony was less aggressive to the hole because he was obviously trying to get the ball in everyone's hands.
he shot only 14 times, made 5 assists, made 5 or 6 more great pass for open men who ed up

it's a typical thing with tony: people ask him to give the ball (especially to manu) but at the same way, they reproach him not to be aggressive

at the end, the game was lost and he tried a last rush after manu three: it worked with two j's. unfortunately, Detroit was scoring too and stayed out of reach.

if you see arguments to bash tony even in that, i guess there's anything we can do about it.

[Blackjack]

Tony was less aggressive to the hole because he was obviously trying to get the ball in everyone's hands.
he shot only 14 times, made 5 assists, made 5 or 6 more great pass for open men who ed up

it's a typical thing with tony: people ask him to give the ball (especially to manu) but at the same way, they reproach him not to be aggressive

at the end, the game was lost and he tried a last rush after manu three: it worked with two j's. unfortunately, Detroit was scoring too and stayed out of reach.

if you see arguments to bash tony even in that, i guess there's anything we can do about it.

I don't know why you're coming at me with that defensive garbage. Tony's floor game has left a lot to be desired since he's been back, and he didn't help the cause much tonight, but I'm not one of these people looking to bash Tony.

The fact that he had a single-minded focus to bring the ball up the court and score when the game was out of reach, rubs me the wrong way. It' not that Tony rubs me the wrong way, but any player (on the Spurs or not) that looks to pad stats in some kind of effort to lessen the blow of a loss, has always pissed me off. Especially when that player plays for the team I root for. It's insult to injury imo.

Maybe if I was into the whole fantasy thing it wouldn't bother me so much.

I just noticed the french flag, so I'll forgive you if your a little sensitive to the hometown kid.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know why you're coming at me with that defensive garbage. Tony's floor game has left a lot to be desired since he's been back, and he didn't help the cause much tonight, but I'm not one of these people looking to bash Tony.

The fact that he had a single-minded focus to bring the ball up the court and score when the game was out of reach, rubs me the wrong way. It' not that Tony rubs me the wrong way, but any player (on the Spurs or not) that looks to pad stats in some kind of effort to lessen the blow of a loss, has always pissed me off. Especially when that player plays for the team I root for. It's insult to injury imo.

Maybe if I was into the whole fantasy thing it wouldn't bother me so much.

I don't think he was looking to pad his stats. I think he thought the Spurs still had a chance. If they would have gotten stops after those two made baskets, they would have still been in the game. The game wasn't out of reach. The Spurs were down 9 and there was about 1:45 left.

[kace]

I don't know why you're coming at me with that defensive garbage. Tony's floor game has left a lot to be desired since he's been back, and he didn't help the cause much tonight, but I'm not one of these people looking to bash Tony.

The fact that he had a single-minded focus to bring the ball up the court and score when the game was out of reach, rubs me the wrong way. It' not that Tony rubs me the wrong way, but any player (on the Spurs or not) that looks to pad stats in some kind of effort to lessen the blow of a loss, has always pissed me off. Especially when that player plays for the team I root for. It's insult to injury imo.

Maybe if I was into the whole fantasy thing it wouldn't bother me so much.

i got your point. no problem.

but i don't agree: manu made, a three, tony made two j's: it was 7 points. with some stops, we could maybe have made a game of it at the end. you can tell tony wasn't enough agressive for you even and i can agree with you. but he's not the kinda player who try to score at the end: he was trying to make his team back. that's all.

[Blackjack]

I don't think he was looking to pad his stats. I think he thought the Spurs still had a chance. If they would have gotten stops after those two made baskets, they would have still been in the game. The game wasn't out of reach. The Spurs were down 9 and there was about 1:45 left.

I can't read the kids mind, but having watched him and the Spurs as much as I have, that's what it looked like to me.

There's a pressure built up throughout the game that really affects the way people play, but when the game is peceived by the player to be out of reach? It's amazing how the demeanor/aggressiveness changes, and how easily the shots start going down.

[Kori Ellis]

I can't read the kids mind, but having watched him and the Spurs as much as I have, that's what it looked like to me.

There's a pressure built up throughout the game that really affects the way people play, but when the game is peceived by the player to be out of reach? It's amazing how the demeanor/aggressiveness changes, and how easily the shots start going down.

Those two shots went down because the Detroit defense had let up. He took advantage of it. But the game wasn't out of reach. If he made them both and the Spurs got stops, the Spurs would have been down by only 5 or 7 with a minute left. He's not the kind of player that cares about padding his stats. No one on the Spurs roster is.

Tony sucked at various points throughout the game today, but he's not a stat padder.

The Spurs main problem today wasn't Parker or Manu individually.

It was that the team played lazy, uninspired basketball. They were lazy on D and non-chalant on offense. They deserved to get beat. They were lackadaisical and careless. Shooting 6-24 from 3 didn't help either. I'm sure watching film with Pop will be a joy for the players.

[Blackjack]

Those two shots went down because the Detroit defense had let up. He took advantage of it. But the game wasn't out of reach. If he made them both and the Spurs got stops, the Spurs would have been down by only 5 or 7 with a minute left. He's not the kind of player that cares about padding his stats. No one on the Spurs roster is.

Tony sucked at various points throughout the game today, but he's not a stat padder.


The Spurs main problem today wasn't Parker or Manu individually.

It was that the team played lazy, uninspired basketball. They were lazy on D and non-chalant on offense. They deserved to get beat. They were lackadaisical and careless. I'm sure watching film with Pop will be a joy for the players.

I'm not trying to call the kid Ricky Davis now...

[Blackjack]

I agree with you for the most part Kori about what the problems are.

Here's what I had to say in response to a couple of posts after the game, and a couple of other things that bothered me.

Originally Posted by dbestpro

Plain and simple the problems of this team right now rests on the inability of Pop to get Manu and Tony to play team ball and adjust to Mason and Hill. Pop needs to make some choices and build a standard rotation. Hill and Mason have lost their aggressiveness since the return of the superstars. Tony and Manu are both playing different songs while the rest of the team is playing yet a third song. This team is mediocre unless they can get back to passing the ball. Even then its 4 on 5 as we play with only one big man with any ability.

I don't think it's that Manu and Tony don't want to play team ball, but they're definitely not on the same page when it comes to timing and chemistry. Tony's decision making in crucial stretches since he's been back has been borderline terrible and Manu is clearly not Manu at the moment.

Pop's decision to bench Hill was a mistake IMO, and if he doesn't learn from it, it's the kind of mistake that could cost the team down the line. Sure, Hill picked up a couple fouls and had to play a little tenative defensively, but there's no excuse for him not to play in the second half when he's got 4 fouls to give. Vaughn should be nothing more than insurance for blow-outs, injury, or come playoff time when you're out of options. It's nothing against Vaughn, but him being on the court means Hill's losing much-needed reps that a rookie needs if you expect them to contibute down the stretch.

The veterans (Parker,Mason,and Ginobili) also need to defer to Hill a little, instead of looking to take the ball from him as soon as he gets across half-court. You'd love for Hill to wave them off and just play aggressively, but he's a rookie. Pop and the vets know what he's capable of, so they need to give him legit opportunities to fail or succeed now, so that they have a much needed weapon when playoff time comes around.

Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

Duncan playing soft did not help matters but the ball doesn't just magically appear in duncan's hands, it starts with the guards. BBall 101.

To use one of Duncan's terms... That's re ed.

He was pretty much the only guy out there doing anything, and the team just looked content to have Tim bail there ass out.

The team as a whole played tenative, lacked intensity, lacked focus, and I'm sure Pop would say soft, (especially after going up 10) but I can't say that about Tim individually.

[Kori Ellis]

Well I think the starting lineup should be TP/Mason/Bowen/Duncan/Body and then have Hill come off the bench with Manu and Finley. (Even though Manu said in the paper that he wants more court time with Tony.) I think those units should be able to adapt and work well together. But Pop has to decide on something. Shuffling the starting lineup every game and having helter skelter subs ution patterns doesn't help any player get in the flow and kills the chemistry before it starts.

[Anti.Hero]

Spurs' fans just need to realize that you no longer have an elite team. No shame in that. You had a nice run!

We beat the Hornets last year with offense. Anything can happen with this team haha

[TDMVPDPOY]

we got a backup PG who can start on most teams,

when he had starters minutes, his production was effective, and the offense was smooth involving everyone down to the bench.

in the past we were so use to the parker iso play every possession down court, now we need to change the system, cause HILL is a bona-fide player in the makn.

[timaios]

Manu Ginobili had ankle surgery, and it is his 5th game.
Tony Parker was out for 3 weeks.

They are not supposed to be great right now.
Manu needs weeks to be the Manu we all know.
And Tony is trying to get his rhythm back.