What really happened...

[Rob123]

Let me start with an opinion. The 08-09 spurs just arent that great of a team. They were never going to be anything amazing.

What I see being argued about the most is Tp and Manu hurting the team. A couple of you out there are saying that they arent playing well, and should be benched, while the majority of you are pointing out stats calling the others morons.

The truth is, the Spurs were a BETTER team without Tony and Manu. Of course not talent wise, tony and manu are probably both top 5 in their positions. What the team had without tony and manu was emotion. The deck was stacked against them, a long shot rookie, an unproven guard, and two grizzeld vets still trying to prove they had a place in this league. For 7 or so games it was their team, and they all answered the call with intensity and emotion. If one guy was having a bad night the others stepped up, and they fed off each others emotion.

With Tony and Manu back the emotion has been killed. They're great players, and are playing at a level we would expect, but they've killed the emotion and inadvertantly alienated the others who thrived while they were out, leaving us with essentially the same team we had last year, tp, manu, bruce and tim. Trading tp or manu is not the answer, because there's no saying if that level of emotion can be recreated. What we're left with is the team we essentially started the season with. No better, no worse. We were just treated to something really exciting during that 7 game span.

what am I thinking, im drunk, dont listen to me.

[m33p0]

this is true chemistry-wise. bringing in tony too early while the team was still getting acclimatized with manu was a misjudgment IMO. Spurs are all of a sudden forced to play with 2 starters who are still out of game-shape and 2 role players who are still learning their new roles. It's like being forced to wear a new pair of boots while the old 'new' one was just starting to get comfortable. It's gonna hurt again.

fortunately, this is a team full of character guys. they'll suck it up and learn how to play together... again.

[Kori Ellis]

I think everything will be fine if Pop sets a starting lineup and gets a relatively consistent rotation going. It will probably take 3-4 games to gel, but there has to be some consistency to let them work through it.

[angelbelow]

just sit tight, theres an adjustment to be made and its being made but it'll take time.

[zhougc]

just sit tight, theres an adjustment to be made and its being made but it'll take time.

agree, it's too early to conclude the team now, it will give us a result in April.

[Charles Sappa]

agree, it's too early to conclude the team now, it will give us a result in April.

exactly the Team need some time, whe have new players. No more Big Shot Horry or Barry 3 point, some of the Spurs players are getting older: Bowen, Thomas ...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

this is true chemistry-wise. bringing in tony too early while the team was still getting acclimatized with manu was a misjudgment IMO. Spurs are all of a sudden forced to play with 2 starters who are still out of game-shape and 2 role players who are still learning their new roles. It's like being forced to wear a new pair of boots while the old 'new' one was just starting to get comfortable. It's gonna hurt again.

fortunately, this is a team full of character guys. they'll suck it up and learn how to play together... again.

Totally agree.

I watched the game and got frustrated at Pop's rotation pattern, which IMO cost us the game, but then thinking about it, he's trying to find a way for a brand new rotation now with Tony and Manu back, he's trying all kinds of match-ups and we'll probably see this for a few more games, for example I expect Mason to start the next game ( in place of Manu ) and Kurt Thomas to get some decent minutes.We'll probably struggle too until we adjust and get everyone's role set.

These early games can be sacrificed in order to get the best out of the team by the time the playoffs start, and that's something Pop's done a lot over the years.

There is one thing, though, that still bugs me from this game. When the opposition defense clogs the lane and stops us from penetrating we take far too many 3-pointers and we can't expect to win a playoffs series depending on this only. That's exactly how the Lakers or Celtics would play against us so Pop has to figure out a way to overcome this problem. Now, I'm aware they know better than me, but I don't see the 4-down working, I'd like to still see us penetrating aggressively and maybe get some calls, go to the lane, get people in foul trouble... I could be wrong, but we cannot depend as much on the 3 point as we did last night, and for that matter as we did against the Lakers in the WCF last playoffs.

[jbspurs]

this is true chemistry-wise. bringing in tony too early while the team was still getting acclimatized with manu was a misjudgment IMO. Spurs are all of a sudden forced to play with 2 starters who are still out of game-shape and 2 role players who are still learning their new roles. It's like being forced to wear a new pair of boots while the old 'new' one was just starting to get comfortable. It's gonna hurt again.

fortunately, this is a team full of character guys. they'll suck it up and learn how to play together... again.

I agree with you, they'll suck it up and learn how to play together. However, I think it's a wise decision to bring in Tony now than wait till later. I rather see them drop few games now while they adjust on playing together, then lose later when it matters most. We added two very good players, adjustment will take few games.

[tlongII]

The Spurs should get better and have a shot at making the playoffs. However they're no threat to win the championship without more help in the frontcourt.

[Dex]

The Spurs should get better and have a shot at making the playoffs. However they're no threat to win the championship without more help in the frontcourt.

We'll trade you Bonner for Oden, straight up.

Okay okay, we'll throw in Vaughn too.

[SenorSpur]

It's a great thing to have 3-pt shooters and shot-takers, but we all know those long-range shots are of the lower-perecentage variety. A team cannot totally rely on those shots, game-after-game. While Duncan is usually responsible for getting a good portion of points in the paint, Parker has been one of the perennial league-leaders in that category. His forays to the basket are crucial to the Spurs offensive execution and generating open looks on the perimeter.

All that being said, the Spurs must find a way to get easier shots when the 3-ball isn't falling and Duncan is getting routinely double-teamed and struggling. That would mean an array of midrange shots, aggressive drives to the hoop and pushing the ball on controlled breaks following stops. They cannot continue to live and die by just the 3-ball and Duncan "down-low" prowess.

[Yuixafun]

First 2 posts nailed it.

But things are unfolding the way they should.

The next wave of Spurs balling will be at a higher level when it clicks.

[Anti.Hero]

The ty part is we all know Manu is a beast. He is Rocky. Few players in the NBA can bring raw emotion and turn it into complete OWNAGE like Manu can.

Lately though, the Manu has been caged.

[spursfan09]

If its game 7 on the WCF, you only rely on players who have been under pressure like that before.

[Biernutz]

This rotation thing of Pop will last till late January of till the all-star game. This should not surprise anyone as Pop does this every year. So just hang on and enjoy the ride.

[Hillcrest]

Let me start with an opinion. The 08-09 spurs just arent that great of a team. They were never going to be anything amazing.

What I see being argued about the most is Tp and Manu hurting the team. A couple of you out there are saying that they arent playing well, and should be benched, while the majority of you are pointing out stats calling the others morons.

The truth is, the Spurs were a BETTER team without Tony and Manu. Of course not talent wise, tony and manu are probably both top 5 in their positions. What the team had without tony and manu was emotion. The deck was stacked against them, a long shot rookie, an unproven guard, and two grizzeld vets still trying to prove they had a place in this league. For 7 or so games it was their team, and they all answered the call with intensity and emotion. If one guy was having a bad night the others stepped up, and they fed off each others emotion.

With Tony and Manu back the emotion has been killed. They're great players, and are playing at a level we would expect, but they've killed the emotion and inadvertantly alienated the others who thrived while they were out, leaving us with essentially the same team we had last year, tp, manu, bruce and tim. Trading tp or manu is not the answer, because there's no saying if that level of emotion can be recreated. What we're left with is the team we essentially started the season with. No better, no worse. We were just treated to something really exciting during that 7 game span.

what am I thinking, im drunk, dont listen to me.

good post.

for what it's worth, i tend to agree...although we weren't playing against the greatest teams during the resurgence either.

[mrspurs]

Your right, your drunk and I wont listen to ya.

[superbigtime]

just sit tight, theres an adjustment to be made and its being made but it'll take time.

Yeah, it's cool. In the meantime, we'll just lose games to weak or cold teams. This Pistons team just got a 28 point beat down at home last week by a 3 win team. Yep, just ironing out the kinks. Thanks Pop!

[superbigtime]

That was one of THE WORST coached games I have ever seen.
* Mason has been playing so well as a starter so...he gets benched. Out of rhythm the whole game.
* Manu coming back from injury with no pressure or real reason for him to start. What does Pop do? Starts the guy. Out of rhythm. Then of course Pop sticks him with the scrub crew of JV, Bruce, Oberto, and Bonner. Manu is the only offense out there and either has to take bad threes because JV can't get the ball to him, and has to rush bad shots with defense swarming all over him...OR Manu has to get a beating to get to the foul line. Looked like last year's playoffs! Isn't this what we got Mason for, Pop???
* At least by starting Manu you'd expect Fab to stay in the starting lineup so that the chemistry between Manu and Fab gets utilized right? Nope! Bench Fab. Great move Pop.
* Bonner has been playing his most consistent basketball as a Spur from the bench. So Pop starts him to "reward" him. Takes him out of his comfort zone and put a little more pressure on him. Bonner has NO ROLE with TP, Tim and Manu. Stupid move. Struggled the whole game.
* Hill averages over 20 ppg over 4 game stretch before Spurs lost to the Rockets. Playing pretty good, right? , even ESPN noticed. Well, let's trash this rookie's confidence and take him out of his offensive rhythm by barely playing him DESPITE playing great defense on Iverson 1st half. Iverson even was noticeably bothered by the kid. So, Put in JV instead. Hopefully TP can boost this kid's shaken confidence now. What a stupid move.
* He plays JV when Spurs have 60-50 lead and STICKS WITH IT like the stubborn idiot he is 2 and a half minutes into the 4th QUARTER!!! JV does not belong in this league. Did you notice how Iverson didn't even bother to guard him and began stealing the ball at will in the 3rd quarter. This idiotic move is basically what lost the game. Spurs never recovered after losing the lead they had earned DESPITE Pop's moronic starting lineup and helter skelter subs utions.
* So then he finally gets Tony in the game and puts Tim in even later after that! How bout that random Ime subs ution with the team completely unravelled at that point in the 4th. And then griping to the media about your team playing soft and SAD???????? Are you kidding me??? Out-freaking-rageous!!!!!! They may be seasoned veterans for the most part, but this is the year Pop loses this team. He has lost his one main talent of being a great motivator. Think twice if you're hoping Tony doesn't leave when he becomes a free agent. He will be so out of here and I won't blame him!

I AM SO SICK OF THIS TOWN AND THE MEEK SA PRESS AND BLIND, IGNORANT SPURS FANS GIVING POP WAAAAY TOO MUCH CREDIT! ARE YOU WATCHING THESE GAMES??? FAITH IN POP??? YOU CAN FOLLOW HIM RIGHT OFF THE CLIFF DUDE. SPURS WON FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS DESPITE THE COACH NOT BECAUSE OF HIM. THE MORON COST US IN 2006 WITH HIS STUPID LINEUPS IN THE WCFs. MIAMI EXPOSED DALLAS FOR THE LOSERS THEY ARE.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That was one of THE WORST coached games I have ever seen.
* Mason has been playing so well as a starter so...he gets benched. Out of rhythm the whole game.
* Manu coming back from injury with no pressure or real reason for him to start. What does Pop do? Starts the guy. Out of rhythm. Then of course Pop sticks him with the scrub crew of JV, Bruce, Oberto, and Bonner. Manu is the only offense out there and either has to take bad threes because JV can't get the ball to him, and has to rush bad shots with defense swarming all over him...OR Manu has to get a beating to get to the foul line. Looked like last year's playoffs! Isn't this what we got Mason for, Pop???
* At least by starting Manu you'd expect Fab to stay in the starting lineup so that the chemistry between Manu and Fab gets utilized right? Nope! Bench Fab. Great move Pop.
* Bonner has been playing his most consistent basketball as a Spur from the bench. So Pop starts him to "reward" him. Takes him out of his comfort zone and put a little more pressure on him. Bonner has NO ROLE with TP, Tim and Manu. Stupid move. Struggled the whole game.
* Hill averages over 20 ppg over 4 game stretch before Spurs lost to the Rockets. Playing pretty good, right? , even ESPN noticed. Well, let's trash this rookie's confidence and take him out of his offensive rhythm by barely playing him DESPITE playing great defense on Iverson 1st half. Iverson even was noticeably bothered by the kid. So, Put in JV instead. Hopefully TP can boost this kid's shaken confidence now. What a stupid move.
* He plays JV when Spurs have 60-50 lead and STICKS WITH IT like the stubborn idiot he is 2 and a half minutes into the 4th QUARTER!!! JV does not belong in this league. Did you notice how Iverson didn't even bother to guard him and began stealing the ball at will in the 3rd quarter. This idiotic move is basically what lost the game. Spurs never recovered after losing the lead they had earned DESPITE Pop's moronic starting lineup and helter skelter subs utions.
* So then he finally gets Tony in the game and puts Tim in even later after that! How bout that random Ime subs ution with the team completely unravelled at that point in the 4th. And then griping to the media about your team playing soft and SAD???????? Are you kidding me??? Out-freaking-rageous!!!!!! They may be seasoned veterans for the most part, but this is the year Pop loses this team. He has lost his one main talent of being a great motivator. Think twice if you're hoping Tony doesn't leave when he becomes a free agent. He will be so out of here and I won't blame him!

I AM SO SICK OF THIS TOWN AND THE MEEK SA PRESS AND BLIND, IGNORANT SPURS FANS GIVING POP WAAAAY TOO MUCH CREDIT! ARE YOU WATCHING THESE GAMES??? FAITH IN POP??? YOU CAN FOLLOW HIM RIGHT OFF THE CLIFF DUDE. SPURS WON FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS DESPITE THE COACH NOT BECAUSE OF HIM. THE MORON COST US IN 2006 WITH HIS STUPID LINEUPS IN THE WCFs. MIAMI EXPOSED DALLAS FOR THE LOSERS THEY ARE.

Is this your first year as a Spurs fan? Way to overreact to a december loss in which Pop is ing with rotation patterns, as always during this time of the year.

[rascal]

The spurs will struggle against the better playoff bound teams and will win most of the games against the weaker non playoff teams. Thats what we are seeing.

They are a bottom seed playoff team that won't go far in the playoffs as the roster is now.

[mrspurs]

That was one of THE WORST coached games I have ever seen.
* Mason has been playing so well as a starter so...he gets benched. Out of rhythm the whole game.
* Manu coming back from injury with no pressure or real reason for him to start. What does Pop do? Starts the guy. Out of rhythm. Then of course Pop sticks him with the scrub crew of JV, Bruce, Oberto, and Bonner. Manu is the only offense out there and either has to take bad threes because JV can't get the ball to him, and has to rush bad shots with defense swarming all over him...OR Manu has to get a beating to get to the foul line. Looked like last year's playoffs! Isn't this what we got Mason for, Pop???
* At least by starting Manu you'd expect Fab to stay in the starting lineup so that the chemistry between Manu and Fab gets utilized right? Nope! Bench Fab. Great move Pop.
* Bonner has been playing his most consistent basketball as a Spur from the bench. So Pop starts him to "reward" him. Takes him out of his comfort zone and put a little more pressure on him. Bonner has NO ROLE with TP, Tim and Manu. Stupid move. Struggled the whole game.
* Hill averages over 20 ppg over 4 game stretch before Spurs lost to the Rockets. Playing pretty good, right? , even ESPN noticed. Well, let's trash this rookie's confidence and take him out of his offensive rhythm by barely playing him DESPITE playing great defense on Iverson 1st half. Iverson even was noticeably bothered by the kid. So, Put in JV instead. Hopefully TP can boost this kid's shaken confidence now. What a stupid move.
* He plays JV when Spurs have 60-50 lead and STICKS WITH IT like the stubborn idiot he is 2 and a half minutes into the 4th QUARTER!!! JV does not belong in this league. Did you notice how Iverson didn't even bother to guard him and began stealing the ball at will in the 3rd quarter. This idiotic move is basically what lost the game. Spurs never recovered after losing the lead they had earned DESPITE Pop's moronic starting lineup and helter skelter subs utions.
* So then he finally gets Tony in the game and puts Tim in even later after that! How bout that random Ime subs ution with the team completely unravelled at that point in the 4th. And then griping to the media about your team playing soft and SAD???????? Are you kidding me??? Out-freaking-rageous!!!!!! They may be seasoned veterans for the most part, but this is the year Pop loses this team. He has lost his one main talent of being a great motivator. Think twice if you're hoping Tony doesn't leave when he becomes a free agent. He will be so out of here and I won't blame him!

I AM SO SICK OF THIS TOWN AND THE MEEK SA PRESS AND BLIND, IGNORANT SPURS FANS GIVING POP WAAAAY TOO MUCH CREDIT! ARE YOU WATCHING THESE GAMES??? FAITH IN POP??? YOU CAN FOLLOW HIM RIGHT OFF THE CLIFF DUDE. SPURS WON FOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS DESPITE THE COACH NOT BECAUSE OF HIM. THE MORON COST US IN 2006 WITH HIS STUPID LINEUPS IN THE WCFs. MIAMI EXPOSED DALLAS FOR THE LOSERS THEY ARE.

100% agreed. Pop lost that game. And he gave his players no chance. When I first saw Bonner starting, I knew this was as stupid a move as ever. With Hill never getting off the bench, I wondered he must be hurt. And with JV on the court in the end, it simply tells everyone. We dont want to win this game.

[Yogurt210]

man the spurs role players were doing sooo well without tp and manu.. even FINLEY was starting to step up, which made me happy...now hes back to normal ol finley with tp and manu back...nonetheless it will take a few games for our rotation to werk...hopefully we can get the emotion and play from HILL MASON and FINLEY that they had when tp and manu were out...blah

anyone notice tp got a lil chunky?