Ginobili: Where Does He Rank Among SG's?

[InK]

That's like Kill Bill Pana talking about some great Greek guard who won't ever see the NBA. Nobody can prove or disprove that assertion. Same goes for T-Mac - he's almost never there when it matters.

On that note:
1.)Spanoulis ( styupid american fans only care about about jumping, passing, shooting, dunking, running, defense, offense, and know nothing about what basketball is really about. Me and V-span know, but u wouldnt understand, so i wont tell )
2.) Kobe
3.) Wade
4.) Roy
5.)Manu ( casue he might know as well)

[mystargtr34]

Again, what I am asking is with these advantages, how do they use them on the court to differ or elavate their game by doing what Manu can't. If they are more athletic, etc ,etc what are they doing that Manu ccan't or doesn't?

Finishing better at the rim, with contact.

Bein able to post up opposing guards.

[tav1]

So explain to me what this mean though: this is just a stupid, unnecessary distinction.

that it was a stupid (meaning not intelligent) and unnecessary (meaning not needed) distinction.

When you immediately protest with "I'm not a racist" when you haven't been accused of racism is a little like responding to a police officer's " o" by saying "the bodies are not buried in the backyard."

You can have the last word.

[galvatron3000]

Finishing better at the rim, with contact.

Bein able to post up opposing guards.

Finally, now you getting to the meat. That's a clear advantage but I think Ginobili finishes at the rim strong when he attacks or atleast get the and 1 but he doesn't post up. Does Wade post up?

[InK]

that was racist and stupid, and an unnecessary distinction.
see the diference now?
You're actually offending ppl when you say that, I wasn't.
And that's my last word on this subjet.

Leave me out of you getting nailed minithread.

[galvatron3000]

can We Stick To The Topic

[m33p0]

There were certain nights last season when Manu was the best player on the planet.

[Deimosfobos]

There were certain nights last season when Manu was the best player on the planet.

Hope those nights return for the tle run...

[galvatron3000]

Well in the final minutes of any game but especially an important one, I would take Ginobili or Kobe over most anyone to have the ball in their hands to create or shoot

[BlackBellamy]

Wdf do u think he can be reffering to? When they jump their feet are higher from the ground then Manu's, when they run their feet move faster then Manu's. Something like that.

No one is doubting you with your jumping statement. Running, however, I think you're a bit off base. The slashing and weaving in traffic on Manu's part is extremely fast and his sprints to contest open drives are at a young point guard's speed when he needs to be. Admittedly, he had lost a step while injured last year and somewhat in his early sea-legs play, but I mean, it's not like Kobe's running on a 20 year old's legs either. Let's give Manu his due. Still the list stands...
Kobe
Wade
Manu
Roy
T-Mac

[JamStone]

First of all, i would say a prime T-Mac was better than Kobe AND Wade, he was right there with them. But that T-Mac is long gone, and his body is so broken i think its impossible, based on evidence since then from a 'healthy' T-Mac.

T-Mac's injuries are completely different to Manu. Manu had a one off injury, T-mac has had constant injuries for the past 4 seasons.

Mcgrady last 3 seasons

Games Played
47
71
66

FG %
.406
.431
.419



Manu last 3 seasons

Games played
65
74
76

FG%
.462
.464
.461

Your games played for Manu demonstrate the opposite of your argument. Manu hasn't had the extent of injuries T-Mac has had, but he's had his share, missing his share of games over three years. It's not like he's playing 80 games a season. And, that's even with Pop monitoring and regulating his minutes to avoid injury. I would agree that T-Mac is "more" injury prone than Manu, but that doesn't mean Manu is durable. He hasn't been either. And, it hasn't been just "one" off injury.

I'm a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. But, you just can't make the injury argument against T-Mac and not do the same for Manu.

[galvatron3000]

Your games played for Manu demonstrate the opposite of your argument. Manu hasn't had the extent of injuries T-Mac has had, but he's had his share, missing his share of games over three years. It's not like he's playing 80 games a season. And, that's even with Pop monitoring and regulating his minutes to avoid injury. I would agree that T-Mac is "more" injury prone than Manu, but that doesn't mean Manu is durable. He hasn't been either. And, it hasn't been just "one" off injury.

I'm a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. But, you just can't make the injury argument against T-Mac and not do the same for Manu.

74 and 76 are pretty good for an 82 game season. He's pretty durable not the most durable but better than T MAc. T MAc's body is damaged goods and you can make that assessment against Manu. Manu is there when it counts. Some of those games are probably Spurs taking pecautions too. The guy was on a run with playoffs and international play. Lot of games.

[mystargtr34]

Your games played for Manu demonstrate the opposite of your argument. Manu hasn't had the extent of injuries T-Mac has had, but he's had his share, missing his share of games over three years. It's not like he's playing 80 games a season. And, that's even with Pop monitoring and regulating his minutes to avoid injury. I would agree that T-Mac is "more" injury prone than Manu, but that doesn't mean Manu is durable. He hasn't been either. And, it hasn't been just "one" off injury.

I'm a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. But, you just can't make the injury argument against T-Mac and not do the same for Manu.

That Manu has played about 75 more games including playoffs over the last 3 years? Thats quite a telling number if you ask me.

[Solid D]

Manu is one of the best all-around basketball players, compe ors, and winners of all time. He doesn't rank as high as Jordan but he does rank in the same circle with John Havlicek, one of my all-time favorite players.

In today's basketball class, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade rank higher but after them, there aren't any players who have the over-all game as a playmaker guard (than Manu).

His flare, creativity and passing are in the Cousy, Maravich, Bird and Magic class. He's not just a modern-day great player. He's an all-time great player in the world.

[BlackBellamy]

That Manu has played about 75 more games including playoffs over the last 3 years? Thats quite a telling number if you ask me.

Seems hardly fair if you're including playoffs. Hey-Hey-Hey!

[InK]

The point Jam seemingly tried to make; If you got 2 players, both of them injured to some degree, deeming one healthy and the other not is unreasonable. Kinda seems like a no brainer.

I would take healthy manu over healthy tmac however, and an injured manu over injured tmac. , id take injured manu over healthy tmac probably.

In "clutchfans" atm: "Is the 2008-09 season a make-or-break season for Tracy McGrady in Houston?" 85% of the fans there answering- yes.

[InK]

And durability questions are beeing asked more due to the limited minutes Manu plays then the few games per year that he misses, right?

[JamStone]

Interesting stat that reflex who stays healthier throw the season
Last three seasons
Manu: 214 reg season's games played
Kobe: 239 reg.season's games played
Wade: 177 reg.season's games played
T-mac: 184 reg.season's games played.

even though the media keeps saying how fragile Manu is, He's among the players in his possition(SG) with more reg.season's games played in the last 3 seasons.

Good call Mark Jackson and Co.

Is Man really among the players at his position with more regular season games played in the last 3 seasons.

2-guards that have played more regular season games than Ginobili in the combined three previous seasons:

DeShawn Stevenson, Mike Dunleavy, Jason Terry, Andre Iguodala, Vince Carter (yes, Vince Carter), Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Stephen Jackson, Rip Hamilton, Joe Johnson, Allen Iverson.

Those are regular starting 2-guards or like Manu, 2-guards that play starter minutes (Ben Gordon). And, those are just the ones I looked up.

[JamStone]

I would take healthy manu over healthy tmac however, and an injured manu over injured tmac. , id take injured manu over healthy tmac probably.

I would too, based on heart, selflessness, and will to win. But, not based on talent.

[BlackBellamy]

Is Man really among the players at his position with more regular season games played in the last 3 seasons.

2-guards that have played more regular season games than Ginobili in the combined three previous seasons:

DeShawn Stevenson, Mike Dunleavy, Jason Terry, Andre Iguodala, Vince Carter (yes, Vince Carter), Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Stephen Jackson, Rip Hamilton, Joe Johnson, Allen Iverson.

Those are regular starting 2-guards or like Manu, 2-guards that play starter minutes (Ben Gordon). And, those are just the ones I looked up.

This is a little off point, but the beauty in Manu's game comes from alot of places. Really in taking into account his over-all relevancy one cannot look to his mpg or scoring average, it's his points per minute and shooting percentage (not to mention the defensive end). Of which he has all over T-mac. In fact, in playing less minutes I'd say it's a wash-out against all the players listed above, save maybe Rip. And that IS based on talent. One fan's opinion.

[Manufan909]

Manu is one of the best all-around basketball players, compe ors, and winners of all time. He doesn't rank as high as Jordan but he does rank in the same circle with John Havlicek, one of my all-time favorite players.

In today's basketball class, Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade rank higher but after them, there aren't any players who have the over-all game as a playmaker guard (than Manu).

His flare, creativity and passing are in the Cousy, Maravich, Bird and Magic class. He's not just a modern-day great player. He's an all-time great player in the world.

That was so... beautiful."sniff sniff"

[peskypesky]

Kobe
Wade
Roy
Manu
Johnson
Allen

[HarlemHeat37]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Dwyane Wade


3. Brandon Roy..leader of his team, has emerged as one of the more clutch players in the NBA, better defensively IMO..

4. Vince Carter..leader of a good team this season, even more durable than Manu(which is a key factor here), more consistent and has never had the chance to play with a coach of Pop's caliber or a player of Tim/Tony's caliber..

5. Joe Johnson..leader of a good team this season, young with significant upside, solid defensively..

6. Manu Ginobili

McGrady might be ahead of him when he's healthy, I'd have to see what he looks like later on in the season..

[m33p0]

Vince Carter way ahead of Manu? You do realize he's a quitter.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu does more with his talent than almost anyone I've ever seen. If health is not the question, I'd take him over anybody else for his will to win and his clutchness. Guys that sacrifice their bodies like Wade and Manu don't stay healthy or have long careers, but they're the guys you want on your team when it really matters.