Is Dwight Howard a skillful player?

[DPG21920]

I was having this argument with many people today. I said Dwight is a beast but he does not have great skill. He cannot shoot, his low post moves are not that developed or diverse and his defense is only good.

I said he relies only on athleticism, but he is still a force because his athleticism is off the charts. They said I was crazy and kind of mis-construed what I was saying, taking it as bashing him. What does everyone think?

[TDMVPDPOY]

hey 2pts is 2pts...doesnt matter how you gett hem whether its from dunks or putbacks....

howard is like shaq, relying on body physique and raw athleticism....needs hookshot/low post moves and extend range to maybe baseline

i still prefer guys like al jefferson who has L33T low post offense...but defense (which can be taught)

amare...his game has change alot since he added the jumper from 18ft

and then you got guys like bogut/omeka who are really good but not given the touches on offense to show what they can do, they are fukn under utilize on their teams IMO.

you slot either one of these guys next duncan? SPURS ARE FKN BACK biatches

[balli]

I'd agree that he's raw. Probably will be for a while. Obviously, his game isn't predicated on a developed, fundamental skill set. I wouldn't say that's the same as being unskilled. Athleticism is a skill. And his defense is better than "only good". He's the single most disruptive defensive force in the league. Help and post defense alike. His last five games he's averaging 23, 17, 4 blocks and less than 2 fouls in 40 minutes/night.

So I don't think it really matters what he's relying on, dude's straight up the best big in the game as of right now. Scary to think what'll happen if he develops a shot and maybe two solid post moves.

[DPG21920]

hey 2pts is 2pts...doesnt matter how you gett hem whether its from dunks or putbacks....

howard is like shaq, relying on body physique and raw athleticism....needs hookshot/low post moves and extend range to maybe baseline

i still prefer guys like al jefferson who has L33T low post offense...but defense (which can be taught)

amare...his game has change alot since he added the jumper from 18ft

and then you got guys like bogut/omeka who are really good but not given the touches on offense to show what they can do, they are fukn under utilize on their teams IMO.

you slot either one of these guys next duncan? SPURS ARE FKN BACK biatches

See the Shaq argument was brought up as well. I said that Shaq had more skill than Dwight, and just as good of athleticism. Shaq at least had hooks and some low post moves.

Dwight is disruptive on defense, but I do not think he is better than KG or Duncan as an overall defensive player.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I'd agree that he's raw. Probably will be for a while. Obviously, his game isn't predicated on a developed, fundamental skill set. I wouldn't say that's the same as being unskilled. Athleticism is a skill. And his defense is better than "only good". He's the single most disruptive defensive force in the league. Help and post defense alike. His last five games he's averaging 23, 17, 4 blocks and less than 2 fouls in 40 minutes/night.

So I don't think it really matters what he's relying on, dude's straight up the best big in the game as of right now. Scary to think what'll happen if he develops a shot and maybe two solid post moves.

blocks are overrated depending on how you got them....fkn if your camping in the lane and waiting thats fukn not defense...thats being an opportunists to statpadd.....you can have monster games but doesnt mean when the other player puts up above avgs and ur team doesnt win........camby for example.

[Bob Lanier]

Athleticism is a skill.

Athleticism is just about the opposite of a skill.

[Allanon]

Absolutely, DHo lacks alot of fundamental skills like shooting, dribbling, etc. He relies on power and athleticism to get his points.

But that's only fair, he'd be unstoppable if he were to develop a shot, some handles, some moves.

[DPG21920]

I'd agree that he's raw. Probably will be for a while. Obviously, his game isn't predicated on a developed, fundamental skill set. I wouldn't say that's the same as being unskilled. Athleticism is a skill. And his defense is better than "only good". He's the single most disruptive defensive force in the league. Help and post defense alike. His last five games he's averaging 23, 17, 4 blocks and less than 2 fouls in 40 minutes/night.

So I don't think it really matters what he's relying on, dude's straight up the best big in the game as of right now. Scary to think what'll happen if he develops a shot and maybe two solid post moves.

I do not think athleticism is a skill. If he had the same athleticism as Duncan, he would be no where near how good he is. He did not learn to be athletic, he worked hard to maximize what he was born with. If you put that kind of athleticism into Tim Duncan's body, Tim would be the best player ever. Once that athleticism goes, Dwight is done. Tim can seemingly play longer because he relies on skill.

Once again, Dwight is a beast and I am not knocking the guy, just trying to describe him with regards to other bigs.

[Bob Lanier]

As to the original question, yes. He has good hands, good footwork within 8 feet of the basket, a nice jumphook, is a decent passer, has good rebounding recognition and anticipation (which he has developed, as he has his shotblocking).

Now he definitely still lacks a lot: he's intimidating in the paint but not an outstanding team defender; he can't reliably score in the halfcourt offense if he can't overpower his man; and he's not a leader. But all but the last can be changed. It doesn't seem that he's lacking in work ethic.

He could really stand to bulk up his lower body, too.

[A Bomb]

I was having this argument with many people today. I said Dwight is a beast but he does not have great skill. He cannot shoot, his low post moves are not that developed or diverse and his defense is only good.

I said he relies only on athleticism, but he is still a force because his athleticism is off the charts. They said I was crazy and kind of mis-construed what I was saying, taking it as bashing him. What does everyone think?

Thankyou for saying this, he's just too powerful of a player to develop a finese game, if he tries to he'll hurt his game now. He has almost reach his potential. I feel Oden will be a Dwight type player because of his strength also.


Don't want to hijack your tread, but on the other hand, Bynum has the same explosiveness, with more length and also has a finesse game, since he hasn't developed dwightness strength yet. So wuold you agree Bynum will pass Dwight as teh top center by the end of the year??

[TDMVPDPOY]

I do not think athleticism is a skill. If he had the same athleticism as Duncan, he would be no where near how good he is. He did not learn to be athletic, he worked hard to maximize what he was born with. If you put that kind of athleticism into Tim Duncan's body, Tim would be the best player ever. Once that athleticism goes, Dwight is done. Tim can seemingly play longer because he relies on skill.

Once again, Dwight is a beast and I am not knocking the guy, just trying to describe him with regards to other bigs.

i dont wish he had an injury on him....

but if you look at guys like duncan/amare who had knee injuries early in there careers....loss their athleticism, but developed other areas in their game...either extending range or concentrate on defense. dwight should learn a lesson or two just in case some happens down the road.

problem with amare? i dont think it has to do with porters system, more to the fact that they got another big in the key taking up space to roam inside. cause the suns still run the PNR inside with nash and amare.....but i must admit amare has a very consistent 18ft jumper.....he knows where his good shooting spots are....

[DPG21920]

I do not know about the end of the year, but for my money, Bynum right now looks like he will be the better player long-term. We will see if that translates to winning. Sometimes power like Dwight's is good enough to win.

[DPG21920]

As to the original question, yes. He has good hands, good footwork within 8 feet of the basket, a nice jumphook, is a decent passer, has good rebounding recognition and anticipation (which he has developed, as he has his shotblocking).

Now he definitely still lacks a lot: he's intimidating in the paint but not an outstanding team defender; he can't reliably score in the halfcourt offense if he can't overpower his man; and he's not a leader. But all but the last can be changed. It doesn't seem that he's lacking in work ethic.

He could really stand to bulk up his lower body, too.

I do not think he has shown consistent jumphook at all. He has decent foot work and is not that good of a passer, although I think that is the one area where he can improve his game and become much more effective. He is good at both rebound anticipation and he uses his body well. I just wonder how much more he can develop. I think if anything, it will be his basketball IQ growing that can help him the most.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I feel Oden will be a Dwight type player because of his strength also.

So wuold you agree Bynum will pass Dwight as teh top center by the end of the year??

comparing bynum to howard is like comparing sabonis to shaq, do you prefer skillful player going to work to get his stats or do you prefer a guy who uses body and athleticism to abuse their opponents...

is ODEN shooting with his right hand or did he stay with the left hand? dunno wtf is wrong with him but his not living up to the no.1 pick

[DPG21920]

It is too early to tell on both Bynum and Oden, but Bynum has vastly outplayed Oden up until this point.

[Allanon]

The flipside of Dwight Howard would be Yao Ming. Yao has all the skills and fundamentals but he lacks power and athleticism. And not to hijack but I think Bynum's the middle ground between Yao and DHo. He has Yao's skills in a raw form and DHo's athleticism without the power.

Bynum's the best defender of the three. Howard's the best rebounder. Yao is probably the best scorer as he has the most options.

Right now I think DHo has surpassed Yao and Bynum is in waiting.

[Allanon]

comparing bynum to howard is like comparing sabonis to shaq, do you prefer skillful player going to work to get his stats or do you prefer a guy who uses body and athleticism to abuse their opponents...

is ODEN shooting with his right hand or did he stay with the left hand? dunno wtf is wrong with him but his not living up to the no.1 pick

That's a pretty good comparison. Saboner was a bad-ass in a finesse kind of way in his prime.

[DPG21920]

That's a pretty good comparison. Saboner was a bad-ass in a finesse kind of way in his prime.

Ya, but people kept bringing up Shaq as an example of Dwight, but when Shaq came into league he was muchhhhhhhhh more skilled in almost every area of the game.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I do not think he has shown consistent jumphook at all. He has decent foot work and is not that good of a passer, although I think that is the one area where he can improve his game and become much more effective. He is good at both rebound anticipation and he uses his body well. I just wonder how much more he can develop. I think if anything, it will be his basketball IQ growing that can help him the most.

guys who rely on athleticism will be exploited by skillful players in the long term, what happens when you put a skillful player who can shut you down on defense and then toy around with you on offense when ur offensive skillset is so limited relying on dunks only....

if you look back at the duncan v amare games....look at the scoresheet everyone will think amare dominates duncan makn him look stupid, but if you watch the games, its mainly from dunks, while you look at duncans game, he throws the whole book of offensive skills in his arsenal taking you to school....

d12 has the right mind set atm, all he needs to do is add to his offensive game, at leasts he didnt put the jump fade-away aka ewing hahahhaha

[TDMVPDPOY]

It is too early to tell on both Bynum and Oden, but Bynum has vastly outplayed Oden up until this point.

i still take 2-3yr nba experience over 2-3yr college experience.....cause theres a huge difference in learning curve imo....college you have time to learn, while nba if you dont improve dramatically, you will not survive in the nba....

[Allanon]

Ya, but people kept bringing up Shaq as an example of Dwight, but when Shaq came into league he was muchhhhhhhhh more skilled in almost every area of the game.

I agree. You don't really think of Shaq as being skilled but he really was. He had a whole range of drop-step moves, jump hooks, spin moves, 1 hand banks, etc. He was also a great passer, great court-vision, knew how to pass out of double-triple teams, etc.

[DPG21920]

Well it was just an debate I was having with some friends, and I wanted yalls take.

[A Bomb]

comparing bynum to howard is like comparing sabonis to shaq, do you prefer skillful player going to work to get his stats or do you prefer a guy who uses body and athleticism to abuse their opponents...

is ODEN shooting with his right hand or did he stay with the left hand? dunno wtf is wrong with him but his not living up to the no.1 pick

Sabonis in his prime could be argued that he was the greatest center of all time. He was suppose to be a 7-3 Larry bird with strength.

I think you're underestimating Bynums athleticism, because he's so long and the type of game he plays. Bynum had a 33' verticle coming out of college at 300lbs of babyfat, and his agility is not that far away from Dwights, as evidenced by his matchup against bosh, he completely shut him down. Bynum didn't even get into foul trouble either which is what's truly amazing at his size and age.

Oden is fine even if his only baskets come from dunks, defensively no one will come close to him and his defense alone should be well worth that number 1 pick.

[Bob Lanier]

I do not think he has shown consistent jumphook at all.

I didn't phrase that the way I should've. He has a very reliable jumphook from about 10 feet on the right block, which he usually sets up with a fake drop step.

But , Melvin Ely can score 80% of the time from his spot on the floor too. Obviously Howard has more to his game than Ely, but he doesn't have a diverse bag of tricks yet.

I do not know about the end of the year, but for my money, Bynum right now looks like he will be the better player long-term.

I agree with that.

[Allanon]

Great topic, probably one of the better debates I've seen here.

I'm off to bed, g'nite.