Ginobili: Where Does He Rank Among SG's?

[timvp]

First of all, I think AI is better than Billups, based on individual talent. Billups has played great for the Nuggets, and I'm still a fan of his. But, for me, I thought he was on his steep decline. Apparently, I was wrong at least so far a dozen or so games after the trade. So more power to him, and because I've always thought he was a great character guy and a good person and leader, I'm happy for Chauncey. That doesn't mean I change my mind and think Billups is all of a sudden a better player than Iverson. He has made the transition to the Nuggets much better than Iverson to the Pistons, I'll grant you that. The true testament will come playoffs anyway. You and I both know that.

Billups > Iverson. I think that is pretty clear.

Iverson might be able to beat Billups in a game of one-on-one but in a team setting, there's no contest.

As for Manu and Kobe, if you were specifically talking about who fits better on the Spurs (which was not made clear) and as someone mentioned how it applies to the team financially, I "could" agree that Manu is the better fit for the Spurs.

Then you agree with me.

And, I will submit that when Kobe is in a good situation and is surrounded by talent, he is the player you want to be on that team. He proved as much on Team USA over the summer at the Olympics, when he all but volunteered to take a backseat to LeBron and Wade and Carmelo offensively and to be the defensive stopper. Emo indeed. bag of course. And, when that superstar cast was collectively ting their pants that Spain was actually in the game towards the end, once again, Kobe was the one called to bail out the team. Emo bag though he is.

Ah yes because Manu doesn't have any Olympic success

He took a backseat to Shaq for 5 years despite being the better closer and harder worker.

He took a back seat because Shaq was by far the better player.

He's already proven last year and this year how he's changed from that.

Sample size. We'll see how long it lasts. If the Lakers win the championship this year, which could definitely happen, all should be good in Kobe land. If they don't, I wouldn't example count on Kobe continuing to be this version of Kobe.

See, I don't even ing like Kobe Bryant the person. I agree he has been and probably still is frequently a bag and an egotistical emo. But, I'm not going to cloud my judgment on his talent. I take Kobe on my team over any other perimeter player in the game except for LeBron James. Come on. Manu? I ing love how Manu plays the game and leaves it all on the court. The same reason why I love Allen Iverson, the basketball player. But, come on. I won't dare say a bad thing about Manu or his game. I'm a huge fan. But, I'm not going to say I'd take him over Kobe all things equal, both healthy and playing their best. That's just stupid.

Kobe is a damn good player. I've seen him curbstomp the Spurs enough to know this extremely well.

But as for a fit on the Spurs, I'd take Ginobili at his best. If I am looking for a player to put on a mediocre team, I'd go with Ginobili. See Argentina's National Team to see what Ginobili can do with mediocre talent. See the 2005-2007 Lakers to see what Kobe does with mediocre talent - on and off the court.

Now if I have a random good team and I get to pick either Kobe or Manu to add to the equation, more often than not I'd go with Kobe. Probably 80%+ of the time. It'd take a unique situation for me to pick Manu over Kobe. For example, I'd say Kobe is a better fit on teams like the Jazz, Pistons, Nuggets, Hawks, Magic, Blazers, Rockets and Dallas. But I'd say Manu is a better fit on teams like the Spurs, Hornets and Suns. Depends on the makeup of the team but I do agree that usually it'd be Kobe.

[timvp]

Him "playing when asked not to" and missing time on the court does affect that. It is off the court "drama" (to some) and it has effected his contract situation, so you would be silly to laugh at it.

That wouldn't even register as a drop in the bucket compared to someone like Kobe ... who coincidentally also played injured in the Olympics.

[yagozev]

Just in time, for a Yahoo analysis on the topic, putting the salary in the ecuation. And the winner is...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

[DPG21920]

Just in time, for a Yahoo analysis on the topic, putting the salary in the ecuation. And the winner is...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

I already posted this.

[DPG21920]

That wouldn't even register as a drop in the bucket compared to someone like Kobe ... who coincidentally also played injured in the Olympics.

Notice how I put things in quotes? But you cannot say Manu is drama free, even if he is not on Kobe's level in that department. Kobe did not miss anytime and his team has the best record in the league.

[Deimosfobos]

persons who dont believe in god...

Yes... most of the world doesn't belive in your god or even a god at all, deal with it re .

You seam to belive in a god, and that doesn't stop you from being a waste of a human life. If there is heaven and , I have news for you, you won't get on the first one...

[timvp]

Notice how I put things in quotes? But you cannot say Manu is drama free, even if he is not on Kobe's level in that department.

Playing for your NT when ultimately being given permission doesn't really qualify as drama.

Kobe did not miss anytime and his team has the best record in the league.

Check again

[DPG21920]

Yes... most of the world doesn't belive in your god or even a god at all, deal with it re .

You seam to belive in a god, and that doesn't stop you from being a waste of a human life. If there is heaven and , I have news for you, you won't get on the first one...

Quit defending everything. Is Manu a great player, yes. Is Manu unselfish, yes. Is he a great teammate/compe or, yes. Is he perfect, no. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. He created his own mini drama this year which lead to him missing games, losing out on a contract that could of already been finalized and many fans becoming pissed.

It is not just SpursTalk. He has spoken about it, Pop has spoken about it, fans have spoken about it, sports radio has spoken about it, journalist have wrote about its and television analyst have discussed it.

He has had no where near Kobe level drama, but he is not perfect. Great teammate and player though.

[mookie2001]

You seam to belive in a god, and that doesn't stop you from being a waste of a human life. If there is heaven and , I have news for you, you won't get on the first one...

im only going to the english as a first language heaven

[DPG21920]

Playing for your NT when ultimately being given permission doesn't really qualify as drama.

Check again

Quit defending everything. Is Manu a great player, yes. Is Manu unselfish, yes. Is he a great teammate/compe or, yes. Is he perfect, no. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. He created his own mini drama this year which lead to him missing games, losing out on a contract that could of already been finalized and many fans becoming pissed.

It is not just SpursTalk. He has spoken about it, Pop has spoken about it, fans have spoken about it, sports radio has spoken about it, journalist have wrote about its and television analyst have discussed it.

He has had no where near Kobe level drama, but he is not perfect. Great teammate and player though.

I did not say it was a catastrophe Timvp, but to act like no one (spurs fans and professionals) noticed or did not create some drama (Harvey said to trade him) is being dishonest.

Lakers record this year: 16-2. Kobe's games played: 18

[timvp]

I did not say it was a catastrophe Timvp, but to act like no one (spurs fans and professionals) noticed or did not create some drama (Harvey said to trade him) is being dishonest.

Right now, there's no drama between Manu and his teammates or the coaches. That's the point.

Lakers record this year: 16-2. Kobe's games played: 18

What's the Celtics record?

[JamStone]

timvp, what does Manu's Olympic success have to do with Kobe showing he's matured and was able to play a role in a team concept? In my entire post, I never put down Manu to prop up Kobe. I am a Manu Ginobili fan. To say Manu is better than Kobe is wrong. To want him on your team because he comes with less emotional and ego baggage is fine. Kobe has changed as a player. He'll never be as selfless as Manu. But, then again, Manu will never be as great as Kobe. Part of being one of the greatest players in the game involves wanting the moment, being selfish to a certain degree, wanting to be the guy. Manu doesn't have to do that all the time, nor does he want to. That's why he's not quite at the same level as Kobe. Manu is just as content being the third wheel as he is being the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of the game. Kobe doesn't have that mentality, and neither did other greats in the game.

You talk about small sample size with the examples of Kobe being a changed player, and then you say it's pretty clear that Billups > Iverson after 14 or 15 regular season games after the trade. Good one.

Now if I have a random good team and I get to pick either Kobe or Manu to add to the equation, more often than not I'd go with Kobe. Probably 80%+ of the time. It'd take a unique situation for me to pick Manu over Kobe. For example, I'd say Kobe is a better fit on teams like the Jazz, Pistons, Nuggets, Hawks, Magic, Blazers, Rockets and Dallas. But I'd say Manu is a better fit on teams like the Spurs, Hornets and Suns. Depends on the makeup of the team but I do agree that usually it'd be Kobe.

So, actually you more or less agreed with me. Good. 80% is still too low though. Probably 96.67% of the time, you choose Kobe over Manu.

[tomtom]

persons who dont believe in god...

You say that if being religious is synonymous with being a good person

[DPG21920]

Right now, there's no drama between Manu and his teammates or the coaches. That's the point.

What's the Celtics record?

Right now there is no drama between Kobe and his teammates. We are talking about moments in time, not lingering problems.

What does the Celtics record have to do with you being wrong about Kobe missing time this year because of his drama? If you want to nitpick about me saying they have the best record in the league (they are tied in the loss column) then please go ahead and ignore the fact of my main point. Kobe's drama did not cause him to miss time this year, Manu's did.

[DPG21920]

There is no comparing Manu drama vs. Kobe drama with regards to scale, but he has had some drama. Still, he is a great teammate and compe or. At least his "drama" was done out of good will and intentions. Kobe, not so much.

[SmellyFeet]

Kobe
Wade
.
.
.
Manu.

[urunobili]

in 2005 Ginobili was the best 2 and arguably the best player in the world...

Nowadays three is VERY good rated... let's talk in March...

[HarlemHeat37]

Manu was never arguably the best SG or player in the world, come on now..I'm assuming you're talking about International play, which you could argue for, but from an NBA standpoint, he's never been anywhere near that..don't be a homer..

[TMTTRIO]

Manu hasn't caused any drama. If he wanted to he would whine and cry about having to come off the bench after all these years for Hedo, Brent, and Finley. Instead he just accepted it and continued to play without saying anything.

[sook]

As a rockets fan and my dislike for tmac's stupid injuries i can't take it in myself to say Ginobili is better...or that i would rather have him if you DISREGARD salary...

T-Mac can make a huge difference even when not shooting well...Ex:22 game win streak.

I love Ginobili but i can't say he's better than Johnson, Roy, or T-Mac. He is a

player that flourishes as a 6th man, and does good sometimes as a starter.

Most of the time he played off the Bench, not big minutes and not at the

leadership role. You can play the FG% game but its kind of hard to do when youdon't take into consideration outside factors, like if someone is the total

focal point of the opposing team's defense which I'm sure Manu has never sniffed.

Btw, don't take opinions from Clutchfans, they are all moody 12 yr olds, after a win they consider a player to be god, and after a loss they consider them

to be garbage.

[Deimosfobos]

im only going to the english as a first language heaven

You wish you could speak/write more than 1 language re ... o wait, you don't. You are happy leaving in your trailer park, and you don't plan to go anywhere.
And believing in a god doesn't make you any better, just proves that people are what they do, not what they believe.

[Deimosfobos]

As a rockets fan and my dislike for tmac's stupid injuries i can't take it in myself to say Ginobili is better...or that i would rather have him if you DISREGARD salary...

T-Mac can make a huge difference even when not shooting well...Ex:22 game win streak.

I love Ginobili but i can't say he's better than Johnson, Roy, or T-Mac. He is a

player that flourishes as a 6th man, and does good sometimes as a starter.

Most of the time he played off the Bench, not big minutes and not at the

leadership role. You can play the FG% game but its kind of hard to do when youdon't take into consideration outside factors, like if someone is the total

focal point of the opposing team's defense which I'm sure Manu has never sniffed.

Btw, don't take opinions from Clutchfans, they are all moody 12 yr olds, after a win they consider a player to be god, and after a loss they consider them

to be garbage.

Houston has a great team, yet they will fail yet again, like past years. I honestly believe is because you have T-Mac, who is a drain for that team in every way possible.
This will never happen, but I would bet my left nut that Manu would make Houston a better team, not because he is more naturally skillled, but because he always make his teams better by doing what ever it takes to win.

At the end of the day, we have no way of proving what we think may happen. So all we can do is argue.

[DPG21920]

Manu is better than T-Mac in almost every area of the game, especially mentally.

[mookie2001]

You wish you could speak/write more than 1 language re ... o wait, you don't. You are happy leaving in your trailer park, and you don't plan to go anywhere

ROFL
posting in english isnt very impressive when someone can read one of your posts and tell you cant speak or write english worth

que lastima

[galvatron3000]

Billups > Iverson. I think that is pretty clear.

Iverson might be able to beat Billups in a game of one-on-one but in a team setting, there's no contest.

Then you agree with me.

Ah yes because Manu doesn't have any Olympic success

He took a back seat because Shaq was by far the better player.

Sample size. We'll see how long it lasts. If the Lakers win the championship this year, which could definitely happen, all should be good in Kobe land. If they don't, I wouldn't example count on Kobe continuing to be this version of Kobe.

Kobe is a damn good player. I've seen him curbstomp the Spurs enough to know this extremely well.

But as for a fit on the Spurs, I'd take Ginobili at his best. If I am looking for a player to put on a mediocre team, I'd go with Ginobili. See Argentina's National Team to see what Ginobili can do with mediocre talent. See the 2005-2007 Lakers to see what Kobe does with mediocre talent - on and off the court.

Now if I have a random good team and I get to pick either Kobe or Manu to add to the equation, more often than not I'd go with Kobe. Probably 80%+ of the time. It'd take a unique situation for me to pick Manu over Kobe. For example, I'd say Kobe is a better fit on teams like the Jazz, Pistons, Nuggets, Hawks, Magic, Blazers, Rockets and Dallas. But I'd say Manu is a better fit on teams like the Spurs, Hornets and Suns. Depends on the makeup of the team but I do agree that usually it'd be Kobe.

Revisit the Spurs versus Lakers regular season game 2003-2004 season when Tim and Tony were both injured, no David Robinson and you see what Manu can do with a medicore team, the LAkers had Shaq, Karl, Gary and Kobe and he crushed them all.