Ginobili: Where Does He Rank Among SG's?

[diego]

... Part of being one of the greatest players in the game involves wanting the moment, being selfish to a certain degree, wanting to be the guy. Manu doesn't have to do that all the time, nor does he want to. That's why he's not quite at the same level as Kobe. Manu is just as content being the third wheel as he is being the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of the game. Kobe doesn't have that mentality, and neither did other greats in the game.
...

I dont really care for the kobe v manu argument, i think kobe's advantages outweigh manu's. and its true that manu doesnt have to carry the same load for the spurs as kobe does for the lakers. but to say that manu is content to let others play and doesnt want the ball in his hands when he has been the spurs closer for the past 4 years is just BS. statistics and hardware show it. just because manu is coachable doesnt mean he isnt every bit as compe ive.

[jemanuel]

Sorry, But He's No 1 For Me. Well, Just Imagine This, Spurs Didn't Win Against The Lakers Because Manu's Not 100% Healthy And Suffering An Ankle Injury Whereas Kobe (most No 1 Pick) Is. Case Closed!!!

Manu4life

[Man In Black]

I think the principal argument here is that Manu's skills, knowledge and game flow positive whether he is a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd option. See that's the difference here. Those other great 2's would NEVER let their games be subjugated. They like to be the man and will complain if they aren't. Manu likes to be the man too, but recognizes that his best attribute is that he does that when it's needed or asked. Not because he feels he's en led too. For me, Manu is simply the best 2 in the world on this team. Kobe has better skills, Wade has better athleticism but neither one of those guys could ever accept a bench role except in case of coming after an injury.

[m33p0]

manu ranks third amongst shooting guards behind kobe and wade and numero uno in crunch time which means he is the guy you want to make plays for you to win games.




end of discussion.

[Darkwaters]

Wade drives me nuts. Hes a great player, but he is the recepient of so many preferential calls. It's just unreal. Just ask Mavs fans.

[ILoveOranges]

Wade drives me nuts. Hes a great player, but he is the recepient of so many preferential calls. It's just unreal. Just ask Mavs fans.

I'll second that.

[peskypesky]

Even though I am a big Manu fan, I really hate that fans use Manu's per min stats make him one of the best 2guards in the league. Manu CANNOT play 40 minutes a game for 75+ games a year. He simply cannot do what Kobe has done or doing.

Per min stats are nice to look at, but that doesn't mean he is on par with Kobe and Wade.

Maybe it's just me...

You're right. You can't just look at per min stats to compare two players. As much as we Spurs fans would like to do that, it's not valid, because the total production on the court is what determines a player's true value.

If player A averages 1pt per minute and plays 40 minutes, he's more valuable than a player who averages 2 pts per minute but plays only 12 minute per game. It's simple math.
1x40=40
2x12=24

40>24

As good as Manu is, he's not close to Kobe. He may be equal to TMac now, or at least close.

[peskypesky]

For me, Manu is simply the best 2 in the world on this team. Kobe has better skills, Wade has better athleticism but neither one of those guys could ever accept a bench role except in case of coming after an injury.

You're out of your mind. If Spurs had Wade at the 2, they would absolutely slay the rest of the league.

[mystargtr34]

You're right. You can't just look at per min stats to compare two players. As much as we Spurs fans would like to do that, it's not valid, because the total production on the court is what determines a player's true value.

If player A averages 1pt per minute and plays 40 minutes, he's more valuable than a player who averages 2 pts per minute but plays only 12 minute per game. It's simple math.
1x40=40
2x12=24

40>24

As good as Manu is, he's not close to Kobe. He may be equal to TMac now, or at least close.

Keep it in perspective. Extrapolating for a guy playing 1 minute is not the same as extrapolating for a guy playing 31 MPG like Manu did last season. Manu played 31 and Kobe played what, 36? Is that too much of a difference to compare their per 40 minute numbers.

Manu doesnt play 40 minutes because the coaching staff chooses to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Its not like he comes out of games asking for a breather because hes spent after 8 minutes a quarter, or because he will automatically break down after 60 games if he plays 40 MPG. Whether Manu could play 75 games a season playing 40 MPG can be argued all day long, what i do know is he can play near that level when the playoffs role around, and that he doesnt need to play 40 minutes a night for the Spurs to be compe ve.

Look at Kobe now, playing less than 34 minutes a night. Thats the way it is when a team has other weapons, a player isnt required to do as much when his team mates are just as capable as they are. Again, whether Manu could be a number 1 option for an entire season playin 40 a night can be argued forever, we dont know.

[jemanuel]

Keep it in perspective. Extrapolating for a guy playing 1 minute is not the same as extrapolating for a guy playing 31 MPG like Manu did last season. Manu played 31 and Kobe played what, 36? Is that too much of a difference to compare their per 40 minute numbers.

Manu doesnt play 40 minutes because the coaching staff chooses to keep him fresh for the playoffs. Its not like he comes out of games asking for a breather because hes spent after 8 minutes a quarter, or because he will automatically break down after 60 games if he plays 40 MPG. Whether Manu could play 75 games a season playing 40 MPG can be argued all day long, what i do know is he can play near that level when the playoffs role around, and that he doesnt need to play 40 minutes a night for the Spurs to be compe ve.

Look at Kobe now, playing less than 34 minutes a night. Thats the way it is when a team has other weapons, a player isnt required to do as much when his team mates are just as capable as they are. Again, whether Manu could be a number 1 option for an entire season playin 40 a night can be argued forever, we dont know.

i'm riding with you

[L.I.T]

I thought the idea that Manu would be just as effective playing 40 minutes as he is playing 30 minutes was put to rest last year. The consensus seemed to be that he was worn out by the playoffs after Pop had to play him heavy minutes in January and February.

But, at least the argument that he could put up outstanding numbers @ 36 minutes per game was answered in February 08: 24.3 points, 5.7 rebounds and 6.5 assists over 11 games is pretty good.

[kaji157]

I thought the idea that Manu would be just as effective playing 40 minutes as he is playing 30 minutes was put to rest last year. The consensus seemed to be that he was worn out by the playoffs after Pop had to play him heavy minutes in January and February.

But, at least the argument that he could put up outstanding numbers @ 36 minutes per game was answered in February 08: 24.3 points, 5.7 rebounds and 6.5 assists over 11 games is pretty good.

During that time last year when duncan was out and Parker was playing awfull he carried the team for a while scoring multiple 30+ points without TD.

I think one of those games was the dallas maverics, who tried everything and could not defend manu.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

wow... Manu love in this thread running rampant...

[Ginobilirules]

too many things to mention as to why Manu is 2nd best only behind kobe, but very close behind kobe too. let's just say that Manu does things that wade could never do, and manu is much tougher physically, true story. also: Manu is a major reason why the spurs have 3 of the 4 rings they have. manu doesn't get the degree of already earned credit simply because he's from a latin american co. no really"' it's fact. but the facts don't lie all you gotta do is watch when Manu dominates without warning" on any given night. many black fans are in denial to give manu the credit and admit the he's second best and also does the exact things that kobe does, with the same results and domination, except score 50 points in a game, but he's had nights where he's had 48, vs pho 46 last yr when he smoked" lebroom"" james in our win at cle 112-105 among others. Manu has is a made superstar"" and is the most unstoppable guard in the league hands down.

[byrdman31]

GIIIIIIIINOOOOOOOOBIIILIIIIIIi, this guy is great player, great to watch. i wouldnt put him at the top, but hes in there.. still think kobe, wade, are better, but thats because the system they are in. MANU is a beast with us and plays his role perfect here

[HarlemHeat37]

are some of you really biased enough to see Manu is anywhere near Kobe and Wade?..

so if we had a combination of Duncan-Kobe-Parker..we wouldn't be repeating every year?..

[Brazil]

Kobe>Wade>Manu>T-Mac

[kaji157]

T-Mac is out of the ecuation, if he played in any other team without yao he won´t even be mentioned.

[Dex]

T-Mac is out of the ecuation, if he played in any other team without yao he won´t even be mentioned.

TMac was arguably more impressive when he played for the Magic and commanded all the shots. He's had to defer ever since going to Houston, and it's gone downhill since.

I still rate Ginobili Top 3.

Kobe
Wade
Ginobili
T-Mac
Johnson

Wade hasn't necessarily been an example of good health, so I think the same argument goes for him, Manu, and Tracy.

To me, McGrady and Johnson both lose points for wasting talent. McGrady has to be the most talented player in the league to never see the second round, and for all of his ability, JJ hasn't been able to doing anything that matters since he left Phoenix.

Ginobili doesn't put up the same numbers as Johnson, and is probably not as talented as McGrady, but he's a proven winner. He's fearless, he's clutch, and he's made it happen on the big stage before. Wade and Kobe are the only other two who can say that AND put up better numbers.

I'd rather go somebody who is gonna win games than somebody who is gonna fill stats any day.

[rascal]

Manu is clearly number 3 here and there is more of an argument to be made for him to be Number 2 than there is for him to be 4th or lower. His postseason resume and overall career accomplishments trump all other NBA SGs except Kobe and Wade. Guys like Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy and T-Mac have no postseason accomplishments. In fact, I'm surprised nobody brought up AI. I'd probably rank him 4th right now.

Thats the problem when evaluating which players are better. Team success or lack of should not come into play. The players should be compared solely on their individual stats and play and not on what their teams did.

The comparisons get clouded when team success is taken into account because then it introduces the players teammates into the analysis.

[DaBears]

MANU ranks in top 5 in current active players, and among league history top 25.
His worth is not statistics but in heart & passion! That my friends is hard to come by.

[Ginobilirules]

hey" harlemheat"" you need your head examined, get real dude"" serious MANU OWNS WADE FOR SURE, GET OUT OF YOUR DENIAL:"" wade is turnover prone, ballhog, and has to score to help the heat win and even when he gtes 25 or more they often lose, where as Manu can get 25, or 30 and doesn't have to go off each night for the spurs to win, also; manu is smarter than wade"' and is two notches higher in talent, As well as manu dominates wade "' when head to head, it's the overall player of manu NOT JUST OVER RATED STATS"" SERIOUS SO GET OPEN YOUR EYES"". you must be a fake uneducated spurs fan, not real fan and not knowledgeable about b-ball either.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not gonna actually waste my time arguing with facts and logic in regards to your horrible post..

[rascal]

hey" harlemheat"" you need your head examined, get real dude"" serious MANU OWNS WADE FOR SURE, GET OUT OF YOUR DENIAL:"" wade is turnover prone, ballhog, and has to score to help the heat win and even when he gtes 25 or more they often lose, where as Manu can get 25, or 30 and doesn't have to go off each night for the spurs to win, also; manu is smarter than wade"' and is two notches higher in talent, As well as manu dominates wade "' when head to head, it's the overall player of manu NOT JUST OVER RATED STATS"" SERIOUS SO GET OPEN YOUR EYES"". you must be a fake uneducated spurs fan, not real fan and not knowledgeable about b-ball either.

You either not very smart or not yet out of grammer school.

[smeagol]

You are either not very smart or are not yet out of grammer school.

Oh . . . the irony . . .