Here's some background on my beliefs:
I was raised Catholic--I went to Catholic schools for seven years. Around 16 I stopped attending church. I had a good sample of potential denominations when I was younger; I got to make the choice to stay Catholic. My father was an agnostic (we lost him in March of 2006) and my brother is an athiest.
My father--through direct and indirect actions--changed me on this subject. We are what we inherit. I punished him being gone, and used religion and the Bible to condemn him. That left me hollow, guilty, and crying. After we lost him I saw the damage religion and a lack of understanding did for the relationship and I vowed to look at the world with an open mind after that, as he did. I found that organized religion wasn't for me, especially Christianity. I played at being agnostic for awhile, however, that didn't fit.
The story of Christ, while it's proven that Jesus walked the earth and he was wise, I don't think he was any more the 'son of man' than you or me. I think that religion highlights the worst of human nature--seperation, condemnation, mystical unscientific beliefs, mass hysteria, fear of disapproval, and abusive power to name a few.
The universe is breath-takingly beautiful and mysterious. The complexity of life is awesome. It fills me with humility. My problems are less intimidating and smaller. There's never boredom; too much to consider. We need real people to solve real problems and relying on God to fill in the blanks, as politicians and clerics ask us to do, just stunts our growth. I know it stunted mine. I'm not a great mind by any means but my potential was wasted, in some measure, on too much energy towards God, and not helping my fellow man.
What are your beliefs?
What's your story?
Last edited by Darrin; 12-12-2008 at 02:09 PM.
Sounds like a cop-out. I was raised in the church all my life. I still believe, and although I rely on God, I look for knowledge as well. Your stunted growth is not an indictment on religion or faith as much as it is an indictment on your own ambition towards filling in those blanks and helping your fellow man.
I believe in God, hate religion myself.
I believe the Bible is a good book with some good values that some evil men have taken and misused and abused to further their own selfish goals. They have preyed upon the fears of the masses and not only have sucked harmless, good people dry of their free will (and money) but they have pushed people such as yourself to the opposite end of the spectrum.
I grew up Southern Baptist until I got to the point where I was asking, "hey, how is it that only this small sector of believers in this corner of the world has it right and everyone else has it wrong?"......to which I realized that organized religion in and of itself is crap.
I agree that the universe is breath takingly beautiful, mysterious and complex.
The same skeptical side of me that looks at the Bible and it's inconsistencies and thinks "how can this book be 100% the one right book in the history of mankind" also sees what man has accomplished and created and I can't help but think that the universe was created by intelligent design.
What does that intelligent design mean? Right now, I don't really know. I guess until we can find the starting point and the answer as to why it was started, we'll never know.
I believe in the story of Christ, but I can't seem to wrap my head around the idea that simply "believing in Him, you won't perish but have everlasting life". There are so many problems I have with this and other facets of the Bible that it would be a thread on to it's own.
In the end, I don't really know what I am. I just know I'm still looking.
[/rambling]
Atheism is a belief system, just like religion. Belief in the non-existence of God is unsupported by any evidence. After all, how do you prove a negative?
Rational skeptics, or Agnostics, whatever they're called--that is, those who believe only that which has been proven by science--do not believe in either the existence or non-existence of God.
For the record, I'm a Catholic, slighly observant. I choose to believe in the existence of God. Just as an atheist chooses to not believe in the existence of God. Neither proposition can be proven. Well, not quite. I suppose God could strike down those atheists who say, "strike me down if you exist."
I'd describe myself as a spiritual person(or at least I try to be) but not a religious one...at least not when it comes to organized religion.
I consider there to be major differences between spirituality and organized religion...the main one being that religion is often used for manipulation and control. More often than not religion involves telling you what you should believe.
As for my beliefs...I was raised a Baptist. I went through the same crap as most people do becoming disillusioned with organized religion and the Baptist vision of god...I didn't like the fire and brimstone burn and stuff...saw all the pain and suffering in the world and asked what sort of god would allow this etc...
The thing that always ed me up...what about someone who has never heard of Christ or the Baptist vision of god, or that died before they heard of it...would they then go to or something of that nature?
That's pretty stupid if you think about it...
So basially I always rejected that sort of, "do this or go to " premise.
I wouldn't say I was ever totally atheistic...but definitely agnostic at certain points...but I never considered science and spirituality or religion to be competing concepts, never...I remain amazed that so many people do.
Anyway, the more I study the history of man, the rise of civlizations, the more I study science and many theories about physics and the building blocks of life and the Universe...the more spiritual I have become. I don't think it works that way for many people...but it defeinitely works that way for me.
The fact that some sort of spiritual belief system goes hand in hand with human culture...often with similar themes arising completely independent of one another(or so it seems)....the fact that even the greatest scientific mind of our time said that energy cannnot be destroyed it only changes forms...
I definitely thing there are higher planes of existence than our own, higher forms of life than our own...
As for which religion people should believe or is the "true" one...I dont' know, I don't pretend to know....I think most of them are obviously now in a form designed for control, power, manipulation...pretty obviously.
See, I get what you are saying, but it doesn't fly. Is it a belief system that I don't believe that Bigfoot exists?
You are right that you can't, by practical means, prove a negative. This means that it's on the claimer to prove that something exists. It's not on the disclaimer to prove that it doesn't.
To not believe in God, you have to believe that life came from non-life, order came from chaos, natural law came from randomness...etc. There are a lot of scientifically unproven things you have to put faith into when you reject the existence of God.
That's a belief system.
The burden is equal on whoever is asserting a belief.
A true skeptic doesn't believe that Bigfoot doesn't exist. In other words, a true skeptic doesn't believe anything; he knows that which is proven to him. So, yes, if you believe Bigfoot doesn't exist, then you are believing in something without proof. I, for one, believe that Bigfoot doesn't exist; it's so inconsequential, though, that I wouldn't waste any time or energy trying to prove Bigfoot's non-existence. I'm comfortable with my belief.
But the question of God is a much bigger question. It's a fundamental question about life, about the universe. To believe in the existence of God is no more irrational than believing in the non-existence of God. Keep in mind I'm only talking about the narrow issue of existence. Religion is another matter.
No matter how far we progress in our scientific understanding of the unvierse, there will always be room for belief in the existence of God. That issue will be with us forever.
I'm an agnostic atheist.
My story? *shrug* I have just never felt any belief. Not too much to the story, I guess.
Agnosticism is a lack of KNOWLEDGE if you want to get technical. Atheism is a lack of BELIEF.
Also, 'choosing to believe' is false. You can't 'choose to believe' anymore than you can choose to enjoy the flavor of something. You either do believe or you don't. Outside forces may influence your belief, but it's not a conscious decision on the same level as "Will I wear a red shirt today or a blue one?"
Finally, atheism is not a 'belief system'. Now, some gnostic atheists may have a 'belief system' but it is not some universal, overarching plan as most religions have.
i personally believe that ALL religions are evil, and all propagators of said churches should be rounded up and put on an island where they could do what they have really wanted to do for all time....fight to the death....
and i'll make THAT my new religion, just so i can join the battle royale.......
but seriously i think that all religions are wrong, and whatever may be in your heart (even if it is a religion that is already in existance) is right for you and you alone...
-my path to "heaven" is different than your path because we didn't start on the same road, smell me?
-sin is dead, or at least objective.
-jesus was right, he was the son of god, as am i, and you, and everything we see. we are all part of something so much bigger, and are needed to perform the role that we are here for. a cog in a machine so to speak, with the purpose being to live as full as we know/can.
-this world is your heaven and your . the "afterlife" isn't your judgement for this life, what you do next time will determine that...but in this world, those who do wrong will be punished accordingly (either by peers or by life), and those who do right will be rewarded, even if doing wrong WAS your right (maybe you were put here to teach someone a lifelesson?)
and if we all carried this belief that the right faith for me isn't the same as the right faith for you , religion would be more of a matter of personal faith, and wouldn't be an issue in the public sector.....
i came to this belief system after years of studying.........
lets just hope i don't crap out and find out that bahai' was the correct path...
It doesn't matter how big the question is; it's the exact same logic. You're making the argument that whether Bigfoot exists is a 50/50 proposition because we cannot prove it doesn't exist. In your system of logic there is nothing that doesn't exist. It either does, or it's 50/50 that it doesn't.
From where did matter come?
Religion teaches some great values/morals/etc.
From what I have heard, there is lots of wisdom in the bible.
Other than that though, I don't really have an opinion on religion.
I believe good people are rewarded; otherwise what reason would there be to be good.
This describes me 100%
It's likely that we're hard-wired to be good to each other on average because natural selection favored that trait in our evolution. Someone who is out trying to kill others is a lot more likely to be killed before he can breed as much as one who cooperates with others and gives members of the opposite sex reason to be attracted to him.
From where did the place that matter came from come?
There's really no such thing as a 'true skeptic'. It's like the person who believes there is 'no truth' or no' knowledge' or something inane and re ed like that.For the most part, the accepted definition of skepticism is not believing something with proof/veracity. The default position towards phenomena such as Bigfoot is to NOT believe, as that would be a 'default' position by being the more likely.
Well, I wouldn't put it that way. 50/50 is kind of a stupid way to put it, actually. In the case of Bigfoot, the lack of fossil record and the lack of any verifiable, do ented sightings is strongly suggestive of the fact that it does not exist. You can get pretty darn close to disproving its existence; I would say it's 99/1. I believe Bigfoot doesn't exist, and so do most people, and for good reason. Bigfoot is allegedly an animal--a large animal--that lives near several populated areas in the Pacific Northwest. We would have probably seen one of them at some point.
God is another matter. And you know it. God is unseen. There is no reasonable expectation of seeing evidence of God's existence, like there is with Bigfoot. Again, in the case of Bigfoot--if Bigfoot existed, there would be a fossil record and do ented sightings. Bigfoot's existence is theoretically provable. But what about God? To use your numbering scheme, the issue of God's existence is 50/50. Regardless, in both cases, belief plays a role.
which god is it?
I'm not claiming to be a true skeptic. I'm not even saying true skeptics exist, or that true skepticism is a good thing.
NOT believing is different from believing in non-existence.
Strike one against God.God is another matter. And you know it. God is unseen.
Sure there is; miracles. God could make one of those crying Mary statues come to life and walk off, and it'd be impossible to explain through rational laws.There is no reasonable expectation of seeing evidence of God's existence, like there is with Bigfoot.
The odds against God are pretty long too. For God, we have to completely invent some notion of the supernatural completely apart from the real world; something we cannot objectively measure but must just have faith that it's there. We have to invent something irreducibly complex that came from nothing. We'd have to believe that you could build the pyramids in one stroke instead of one brick at a time.Again, in the case of Bigfoot--if Bigfoot existed, there would be a fossil record and do ented sightings. Bigfoot's existence is theoretically provable. But what about God? To use your numbering scheme, the issue of God's existence is 50/50. Regardless, in both cases, belief plays a role.
if there's only one god, why would he say "thou shalt worship no other god"?
Exactly.
Because humans have a nasty habit of worshipping earthly idols.
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