Cleveland's 20-4 start is not impressive

[tp2021]

Nice sig pic.

[JoeTait75]

i am proven right once again.

Although i think the cavs have a legit shot at the finals, just not a championship

I'm impressed you got that much out of last night's game, in which we were shorthanded, on the second half of a back-to-back, a fourth game in five nights, against a pretty damned talented Atlanta team. Not trying to make excuses- it was a tough game, the Cavaliers showed stones by climbing back into it late, but the Hawks made the plays to win, and deserved to win. Simple as that.

Last night's game only confirmed what I've been saying all along- the Cavaliers need another reliable veteran big man. They just aren't deep enough up front as of now, and they'll have to get deeper, especially since Z and Ben aren't getting any younger.

[TheMadHatter]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

[Spur-Addict]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

I guess you didn't notice the three guys around him at all times, it's ok they are hard to see sometimes.

[JamStone]

The Cavs' record is somewhat inflated because of their schedule, but they're still really, really good this season. They haven't just been beating the teams they're supposed to beat. They're crushing those teams. And, basically all of their losses to the good teams were close games the Cavs had a chance to win.

The Cavs might not be one of the top 3 teams in the league, but they could be. We'll know more when they play more of the better teams in the league. They still need to work on getting quality wins on the road against the better teams in the league. But, they still are a really good team. How good is still up for debate.

[TheMadHatter]

I guess you didn't notice the three guys around him at all times, it's ok they are hard to see sometimes.

You and I both know Lebron can get to the rim whenever he wants. He simply didn't want to have to make those foul shots and have the game's fate decided by his own hands.

[Spur-Addict]

You and I both know Lebron can get to the rim whenever he wants. He simply didn't want to have to make those foul shots and have the game's fate decided by his own hands.

He can drive with stressing navigation, and attempt a highly contested shot from multiple defenders. Or he can drive and hit the open man. It is not an automatic that a foul is called. He could just pull up and take a jumper, no excuse there. Although, he'll probably still be hounded the same way. It happens alot during the game so it would be a given down the stretch. It isn't like he hasn't taken game winners, or went to the line in such a situation, or made and missed in either of those scenarios.

[Allanon]

Lakers Strength of Schedule -- .483

Cavs Strength of Schedule -- .484

The Lakers have played more short handed teams aswell. How much of the Lakers record is due to their weak schedule?

There is a big difference. The Cavs play better against bad teams while the Lakers play better against good teams.

The Lakers pumped up their record with wins against good teams.

The Cavs pumped up their record with wins against bad teams.

The Lakers are like 10-1 against good teams while the Cavs are 4-5 against good teams or something like that.

[JamStone]

There is a big difference. The Cavs play better against bad teams while the Lakers play better against good teams.

The Lakers pumped up their record with wins against good teams.

The Cavs pumped up their record with wins against bad teams.

The Lakers are like 10-1 against good teams while the Cavs are 4-5 against good teams or something like that.

How can the Cavs be 4-5 against good teams when they only have 4 losses total? Plus, the Cavs losses were against good teams on the road. It's arguable that the Lakers have only played one tough road game so far, against New Orleans. Dallas was in shambles when the Lakers played them there and the Denver road game was before the Iverson-Billups trade.

And, the Lakers haven't really played any of the really good teams yet though. The Lakers have decent wins against New Orleans and Dallas (the second time after their rough start) and a Houston blowout. The Laker win against Denver was again before the trade.

Lakers haven't played many really good teams, and even fewer good teams on the road.

[Allanon]

I'm sorry it's 5-4 for the Cavs, not 4-5. That is not impressive either.

Right now, the only really good team in my mind is Boston.

Everybody else is just "a good team".

I don't think it will make a difference whether the Lakers play Dallas, Hornets, Phoenix, Nuggets on the road. These teams do not match up well with the Lakers.

I think the Nugz are the 2nd best West team right now but with the Billups trade, they're even more mismatched against the Lakers. FishFarm can't handle Iverson but they can handle Billups. Billups helps the Nugz against every other team.

But I'm willing to wait for those road games to see if it does make a difference.

The Lakers are missing games from the Spurs/Jazz out West and games against the Cavs and Hawks out East. I don't think the Magic stand a chance so I don't include them.

I don't think the Jazz or Spurs can put up a fight against the Lakers right now. And of course we have the Celtics Christmas day game which I've repeatedly said will leave the Celtics looking forward to a February rematch.

And there aren't many good teams left that the Lakers haven't played, aside from the scrub teams (Thundah, Kings, Bobcats, Grizz), I can't think of any team that is a favorite to beat the Lakers. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves beat the Lakers tonight.

I can't wait for the for schedule to get harder again so that the Lakers can starting blowing out teams once more.

Lakers will continue losing to bad teams as they have for the past decade. But they will continue beating good teams.

At least in the regular season.

For the Cavs, I think they will continue their trend of ~.550 ball against good teams as the schedule toughens up.

[JamStone]

Doesn't matter if teams don't match-up great against the Lakers when the Lakers play on the road. Do you want to argue that the Pacers match up well against the Lakers? Or the Kings or for that matter Washington who lost to the Lakers by 2 points?

Playing on the road is a different animal no matter how teams match up with each other. And, until the Lakers play a few more tough road games against really good teams, you can't make the argument that simply because teams don't necessarily match up well against the Lakers that the Lakers wouldn't have a problem playing those teams on the road. They lost to the Pacers and Kings on the road, and again only beat the Wizards by 2 points on the road. They have yet to play a really good team other than New Orleans on the road. They played Dallas on the road when that team had a lot of problems still and weren't playing well.

Denver actually matches up fine with the Lakers. And, sorry, but Fisher and Farmar don't match up well against Billups either.

[JamStone]

Lakers will continue losing to bad teams as they have for the past decade. But they will continue beating good teams.

That has yet to be proven so far this season for the Lakers. Again, they don't have many wins against good teams. So you're guessing as much as a Cavs fan would about how good the Cavs are.

[Allanon]

Doesn't matter if teams don't match-up great against the Lakers when the Lakers play on the road. Do you want to argue that the Pacers match up well against the Lakers? Or the Kings or for that matter Washington who lost to the Lakers by 2 points?

Playing on the road is a different animal no matter how teams match up with each other. And, until the Lakers play a few more tough road games against really good teams, you can't make the argument that simply because teams don't necessarily match up well against the Lakers that the Lakers wouldn't have a problem playing those teams on the road. They lost to the Pacers and Kings on the road, and again only beat the Wizards by 2 points on the road. They have yet to play a really good team other than New Orleans on the road. They played Dallas on the road when that team had a lot of problems still and weren't playing well.

Denver actually matches up fine with the Lakers. And, sorry, but Fisher and Farmar don't match up well against Billups either.

FishFarm did just fine against Billups, thankyou, he only got 15 points. As long as Billups doesn't go for 30 points, the Lakers have no problems with the Nuggz. AI & the Nuggz put up a better fight in the 1st game of the season.

Lakers don't have problems with pass-first point guards, it's the score-first point guards like AI that give them problems.

It's not about the road with the Lakers, it's the compe ion. The Lakers have been an excellent road team.

Give 'em the Pacers/Wiz/Kings, and it's anybody's game. Give 'em the Suns/Mavs/Nugz/Rockets/Jazz/etc on the road or at home and they'll deliver a win.

[Allanon]

That has yet to be proven so far this season for the Lakers. Again, they don't have many wins against good teams. So you're guessing as much as a Cavs fan would about how good the Cavs are.

The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams.

Cavs are 5-4.

Almost half of the Laker games have been against good teams. No other team in the NBA has as good a record against good teams as the Lakers have.

[Ghazi]

shut up

[Allanon]

shut up

Who are you talking to?

[kcplayboi_26]

Cavs are nice regardless, hi haters

[MarHill]

I have to disagree with the thread starter...even though I'm a Spurs fan.

You can only play who is on your schedule and the good teams are supposed to beat the bad or mediocre teams.

So it's a nice start for Cleveland!! There is a lot of season left and their schedule will get tougher and also there will be some adversity.

How they respond to that adversity...will show me how good they are!!

[JamStone]

FishFarm did just fine against Billups, thankyou, he only got 15 points. As long as Billups doesn't go for 30 points, the Lakers have no problems with the Nuggz. AI & the Nuggz put up a better fight in the 1st game of the season.

Billups shot 50% from the field (6-for-12), had 9 assists and 0 turnovers. Fisher and Farmar combined for 14 points, 5 assists and 2 turnovers. I wouldn't say that's doing just fine against Billups. If Carmelo actually came to play that game and scored the way the Nuggets need him to, the Nuggets have a better chance in that game.

Lakers don't have problems with pass-first point guards, it's the score-first point guards like AI that give them problems.

Chris Paul dropped 30 pts and 13 asts on the Lakers. Derrick Rose dropped 25 pts and 9 asts on the Lakers. Both pass first point guards.

It's not about the road with the Lakers, it's the compe ion. The Lakers have been an excellent road team.

Give 'em the Pacers/Wiz/Kings, and it's anybody's game. Give 'em the Suns/Mavs/Nugz/Rockets/Jazz/etc on the road or at home and they'll deliver a win.

The Lakers haven't played many tough teams on the road yet. You can't make the claim they are an excellent road team until they start playing good teams on the road.

The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams.

Cavs are 5-4.

Almost half of the Laker games have been against good teams. No other team in the NBA has as good a record against good teams as the Lakers have.

"Good" teams is subjective. They haven't played Boston or Cleveland yet. They haven't played San Antonio yet. They haven't played Orlando or Atlanta yet. The Lakers' only quality win on the road so far has been against the Hornets. They've had some good wins at home against Houston and Dallas. If people are going to criticize Cleveland for having a relatively soft schedule that has inflated their record, it's completely justifiable to do the same to the Lakers. What has been their most impressive win? The Hornets win on the road? The Nuggets win at home? That's about it.

[JoeTait75]

This is precisely why I don't believe the Cavs can beat the Celtics.

When you have to rely on Delonte West and Mo Williams to win games for you it's not a good sign. Lebron needs to nut up and close games out by himself. Everytime he penetrates it's a guaranteed trip to the line, he's just afraid of having to take those F/Ts.

LeBron will give it up to the open man not because he's "afraid" but because to him it's the proper basketball play, and in many cases it is. Especially on the road where you aren't guaranteed to get those calls on drives to the hoop. Mo and Delonte are good players and good shooters, especially Mo. The shots weren't dropping last night. We weren't getting the whistles either- Atlanta shot twice as many free throws as the Cavaliers.

BTW, LeBron is around 80 percent from the stripe this year. So he's been doing a nice job in that area too.

[Allanon]

Billups shot 50% from the field (6-for-12), had 9 assists and 0 turnovers. Fisher and Farmar combined for 14 points, 5 assists and 2 turnovers. I wouldn't say that's doing just fine against Billups. If Carmelo actually came to play that game and scored the way the Nuggets need him to, the Nuggets have a better chance in that game.

Billups will have to do alot more than 15 points for him to cause the Lakers any problems.

Chris Paul dropped 30 pts and 13 asts on the Lakers. Derrick Rose dropped 25 pts and 9 asts on the Lakers. Both pass first point guards.

And they still lost. That's the problem with pass-first point guards...it doesn't break down the Lakers D.

The Lakers haven't played many tough teams on the road yet. You can't make the claim they are an excellent road team until they start playing good teams on the road.

"Good" teams is subjective. They haven't played Boston or Cleveland yet. They haven't played San Antonio yet. They haven't played Orlando or Atlanta yet. The Lakers' only quality win on the road so far has been against the Hornets. They've had some good wins at home against Houston and Dallas. If people are going to criticize Cleveland for having a relatively soft schedule that has inflated their record, it's completely justifiable to do the same to the Lakers. What has been their most impressive win? The Hornets win on the road? The Nuggets win at home? That's about it.

The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams. Lakers already beat Denver, Dallas, New Orleans, and Suns on the road. Another good team won't make a difference.

The Lakers play well against good teams, they just play bad against bad teams.

But we can wait until the Lakers play some good teams on the road before I say I told you so. Lakers go see Miami, Orlando, Memphis and Hornets next week. If they lose any of those games, it will be to Memphis.

[JamStone]

Billups will have to do alot more than 15 points for him to cause the Lakers any problems.

You act like he's not capable. Please. Fisher and Farmar are not "Billups stoppers." You want to make your conclusion based on one regular season game, fine. Then you better hope the Sacramento Kings don't squeak into the playoffs as a #8 seed and the Indiana Pacers don't make it out of the East.

And they still lost. That's the problem with pass-first point guards...it doesn't break down the Lakers D.

Lakers can't stop athletic, scoring small forwards. Look at what Danny Granger and John Salmons and Tayshaun Prince did to the Lakers.

See what I did there with a small sample as my evidence?

The Lakers are 10-1 against good teams. Lakers already beat Denver, Dallas, New Orleans, and Suns on the road. Another good team won't make a difference.

They beat a different Denver team "on the road". Phoenix has proven to be about as inconsistent as they come. Not a really good team even at home considering they've lost to teams like Miami and New Jersey at home. You can't count that as a quality road win at this point in the season. The Dallas Mavericks were 2-4 and an obvious mess when the Lakers beat them in Dallas. You're really going to claim that as a quality road win at that point in the Mavericks' season? Keep drinking it.

The Lakers play well against good teams, they just play bad against bad teams.

But we can wait until the Lakers play some good teams on the road before I say I told you so. Lakers go see Miami, Orlando, Memphis and Hornets next week. If they lose any of those games, it will be to Memphis.

One solid road win against New Orleans. Yes, you should wait until you say anything about the Lakers being an excellent road team. As it's been obvious, they haven't had many quality road wins yet.

Keep drinking it.

[DrHouse]

The Lakers proved last season that they are capable of winning on the road. They don't have to re-prove this fact anymore than the Celtics do.

What they need to prove is that they have actually gotten better defensively. Anyone watching the last 5-10 games would have a hard time believing so.

[Allanon]

You act like he's not capable. Please. Fisher and Farmar are not "Billups stoppers." You want to make your conclusion based on one regular season game, fine. Then you better hope the Sacramento Kings don't squeak into the playoffs as a #8 seed and the Indiana Pacers don't make it out of the East.

Billups is a great player, but the Lakers don't have problems with pass-first point guards such as Billups. Guys like AI tear up the Lakers defense. Kings and Pacers would be "good teams" if they made it into the Playoffs and then the Lakers would beat them. As long as these bad teams stay bad, the Lakers will have problems with them.

Lakers can't stop athletic, scoring small forwards. Look at what Danny Granger and John Salmons and Tayshaun Prince did to the Lakers.

See what I did there with a small sample as my evidence?

This is why Philip removed Radman from the starting lineup.

They beat a different Denver team "on the road". Phoenix has proven to be about as inconsistent as they come. Not a really good team even at home considering they've lost to teams like Miami and New Jersey at home. You can't count that as a quality road win at this point in the season. The Dallas Mavericks were 2-4 and an obvious mess when the Lakers beat them in Dallas. You're really going to claim that as a quality road win at that point in the Mavericks' season? Keep drinking it.

Let's not start making excuses for teams.

One solid road win against New Orleans. Yes, you should wait until you say anything about the Lakers being an excellent road team. As it's been obvious, they haven't had many quality road wins yet.

Keep drinking it.

Nope, I don't go for excuses. You win or you lose. Who's to say the Lakers were playing their best ball back then? It could just have easily been the Lakers not playing well but still beat them. If they lost those games instead, would it be because they were integrating Bynum/Ariza? No excuses.

Let's quit with the excuses for why a good team loses, that's for sissies. I can go for your no Celtics/Spurs/Cavs yet. But the Lakers play what is given them. They are 10-1 and have been great against good teams until proven otherwise.

[JamStone]

Yes, let's quit with the excuses. If the Lakers lose to bad teams, they are a bad team.

Let's quit with the excuses.