Smoking ban extended to bars and pool halls in Corpus Christi

[BacktoBasics]

just when i don't really care about something. i quit smoking a few years ago, they give me headaches.

Right we are talking about fundamental rights here. You should care.

Surely you've cared in the past or now about certain rights being stripped from us.

[ChumpDumper]

There is a fundamental right to allow smoking in bars?

[BacktoBasics]

There is a fundamental right to allow smoking in bars?

Yes. The right of the business owner to do what he wants with his personal property so long as its within the law. Don't tell me its public property because he purchased it personally and its open to the public if they so desire to enter. Smoking is legal. Tobacco is legal. He has the right to allow smoking at his establishment. He's not willing it on anyone when its their adult choice to enter or not.

I'm willing to understand rights of ownership being stripped in certain public cir stances like restaurants, malls etc even though its still way out of line. I see the good in it.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes. The right of the business owner to do what he wants with his personal property so long as its within the law.

Well there you go. They just changed the law. You can change it back you can get enough people to agree with you and act on it.

[CuckingFunt]

As an asthmatic, I appreciate the ability to go into a bar and not have an attack within five minutes.

That being said, many of my friends and family are/have been smokers and I can understand their frustration at not being able to smoke in a bar.

[BacktoBasics]

Well there you go. They just changed the law. You can change it back you can get enough people to agree with you and act on it.

No wise ass. Thats the point of the entire thread. Its wrong. Its fundamentally wrong for the ban to have been passed.

No it doesn't boil down to getting enough people to act on it if you have a few who have the power on your side.

The people who enacted the bar and pool hall ban in Corpus numbered less than 12. There has been a pe ion with well over 15k signatures on it requesting that there be no ban period well before the bar ban. A select few have been pushing their own personal agenda.

[T Park]

No wise ass. Thats the point of the entire thread. Its wrong. Its fundamentally wrong for the ban to have been passed.

No it doesn't boil down to getting enough people to act on it if you have a few who have the power on your side.

The people who enacted the bar and pool hall ban in Corpus numbered less than 12. There has been a pe ion with well over 15k signatures on it requesting that there be no ban period well before the bar ban. A select few have been pushing their own personal agenda.

Sounds like the beginning of the Global warming agenda as well.

[ChumpDumper]

No wise ass. Thats the point of the entire thread. Its wrong. Its fundamentally wrong for the ban to have been passed.

Not at all.There are myriad laws limiting and proscribing the actions of business owners. This is just another one of them.

No it doesn't boil down to getting enough people to act on it if you have a few who have the power on your side.

Then get some people who agree with you in power.

The people who enacted the bar and pool hall ban in Corpus numbered less than 12. There has been a pe ion with well over 15k signatures on it requesting that there be no ban period well before the bar ban. A select few have been pushing their own personal agenda.

Then work to get those people out of office.

[ChumpDumper]

I know this is an editorial, but I'd like to find out some more about the study cited here.

The citizens of Helena voted in June 2002 to ban smoking in all public buildings -- including restaurants, bars and casinos. Soon after, doctors at the local hospital noticed that heart-attack admissions were dropping. So they, in conjunction with the University of California, San Francisco, did a study to measure the potential short-term effects of a smoking ban.

Helena is a perfect place for such a study: relatively isolated, with enough people in the region (66,000) for a meaningful population sample, and only one cardiac-care hospital within a 60-mile radius. So it was easy to control the study sample and methodology: if you get a heart attack in Helena, there's only one place to go for treatment.

The study showed two trends. First, there was no change in heart attack rates for patients who lived outside city limits. But for city residents, the rates plummeted by 58 percent in only six months.

''We know from longer-term studies that the effects of secondhand smoke occur within minutes, and that long-term exposure to secondhand smoke is associated with a 30 percent increased risk in heart attack rates,'' says Stanton Glantz, a professor of medicine who conducted the study's statistical analysis. ''But it was quite stunning to do ent this large an effect so quickly.''

It was also stunning to witness what happened next. The Montana State Legislature, under pressure from the Montana Tavern Association and tobacco lobbyists, rescinded the ban in December. The result: heart-attack rates bounced back up almost as quickly as they dropped.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A9659C8B63

Now when you start considering all the health costs involved, it becomes a pocketbook issue to me -- more akin to a seat belt or helmet law.

Sorry I'm not as principled as you guys about this. I just can't bring myself to care all that much for smokers' enablers' rights, especially when the smokers can just stand outside for a couple of minutes.

[leemajors]

Yes. The right of the business owner to do what he wants with his personal property so long as its within the law. Don't tell me its public property because he purchased it personally and its open to the public if they so desire to enter. Smoking is legal. Tobacco is legal. He has the right to allow smoking at his establishment. He's not willing it on anyone when its their adult choice to enter or not.

I'm willing to understand rights of ownership being stripped in certain public cir stances like restaurants, malls etc even though its still way out of line. I see the good in it.

i really don't understand the uproar. this has happened in many places, and hasn't affected the bottom lines for bars in those places, despite what those owners thought.

[BacktoBasics]

Then work to get those people out of office.

You're right. Instead of expecting the people in office to hold our basic rights up for us we'll have to grin and bear it until time permits myself and others to fight each and every cause on our own. This has worked. Look how easily we got Bush and Clinton impeached. We managed to free ourselves from the uncons utional taxing of our labor and wages too. I've freed up just enough time last month to rally support against the Patriot Act and all this illegal wiretapping business. Not long ago we put a stop to this illegal search and seizure of drawing blood if we lawfully refused a breath test.

it lets do it all in reverse. Take it all away and we'll spend the rest of our lives fighting for each new right. Its just a god damn piece of paper. I know I for one would find that game full of fun. Never in my life have I seen so many of our cons utional rights manipulated to benefit the opinion of a few.

[BacktoBasics]

i really don't understand the uproar. this has happened in many places, and hasn't affected the bottom lines for bars in those places, despite what those owners thought.

I'd like you to back that up. I and many others disagree.

When did we start giving people the right to choose for us? Thats the real argument behind all of this. I understand doing things to protect the public but in the case of bars it simply doesn't fit. The choice is there. I don't want them deciding for me. Its Un-American.

[BacktoBasics]

One thing is very clear. Many of you seem to prefer that the government and small interest groups make your decisions for you.

I for one still prefer my choice and prefer others to be afforded the same ability whether I agree with it or not.

I'm a non-smoker. I wouldn't mind a smoke free invironment but its not for me to decide its the person who owns the properties choice. Not mine not the government not the anti-smoking fanatics.

I respect his choice and I respect my ability to decide not to enter if I don't want to. We are slowly losing our ability to choose for ourselves. I despise it. It makes me hate the current state of this country.

[Blake]

Wanna ban porn from HEB fine makes sense. Wanna ban porn from a porn shop. Doesn't add up does it.

Because you can choose to not enter.

Since when is a pool hall a smoke shop? Their primary business is selling booze and renting out tables. The cigarette machine is usually way in the back.

it sucks that smokers narrow my choices of where I can go. Thanks to those pricks, I have to hear people like you say "if you don't like it, then don't go"

It's finally a relief that I'm able to go to a bowling alley without coming out feeling like my lungs are going to collapse.

Can't wait for the bars and pool halls to be next.

I do agree with your logic though that a smoke shop/humidor should be allowed to have smokers in it. That's about it.

[ChumpDumper]

You're right. Instead of expecting the people in office to hold our basic rights up for us we'll have to grin and bear it until time permits myself and others to fight each and every cause on our own. This has worked. Look how easily we got Bush and Clinton impeached. We managed to free ourselves from the uncons utional taxing of our labor and wages too. I've freed up just enough time last month to rally support against the Patriot Act and all this illegal wiretapping business. Not long ago we put a stop to this illegal search and seizure of drawing blood if we lawfully refused a breath test.

it lets do it all in reverse. Take it all away and we'll spend the rest of our lives fighting for each new right. Its just a god damn piece of paper. I know I for one would find that game full of fun. Never in my life have I seen so many of our cons utional rights manipulated to benefit the opinion of a few.

Smoking bans have been rescinded in the past.

This is pretty much the only way you are going to do it, but it sounds like you are content just to whine about it on the internets.

[BacktoBasics]

Since when is a pool hall a smoke shop? Their primary business is selling booze and renting out tables. The cigarette machine is usually way in the back.

it sucks that smokers narrow my choices of where I can go. Thanks to those pricks, I have to hear people like you say "if you don't like it, then don't go"

It's finally a relief that I'm able to go to a bowling alley without coming out feeling like my lungs are going to collapse.

Can't wait for the bars and pool halls to be next.

I do agree with your logic though that a smoke shop/humidor should be allowed to have smokers in it. That's about it.

Most not all pool halls are extensions of bars.

Shouldn't you be more pissed that no one bothered to open a smoke free establishment for you hang out in? Why strip the rights of others who are operating their business as they see fit to accomodate your preference? Why should the person who owns the business be forced to work around your opinion? It is his business isn't it? Smoking is legal isn't it? Can you not make your rules within the law within your own home?

[BacktoBasics]

Smoking bans have been rescinded in the past.

This is pretty much the only way you are going to do it, but it sounds like you are content just to whine about it on the internets.

I sent angry letters. I'm going to attend the public meetings and I'm going to organize a non-smoking march in support of eleminating the smoking ban.

I could staple our rights on their foreheads and it wouldn't matter.

Where have smoking bans been rescinded. I've never heard of such a thing. I'd like to know where and how?

[ChumpDumper]

One thing is very clear. Many of you seem to prefer that the government and small interest groups make your decisions for you.

Did you just move here?

I for one still prefer my choice and prefer others to be afforded the same ability whether I agree with it or not.

I'm a non-smoker. I wouldn't mind a smoke free invironment but its not for me to decide its the person who owns the properties choice. Not mine not the government not the anti-smoking fanatics.

I respect his choice and I respect my ability to decide not to enter if I don't want to. We are slowly losing our ability to choose for ourselves. I despise it. It makes me hate the current state of this country.

The non-smoking part I like.

[ChumpDumper]

I sent angry letters. I'm going to attend the public meetings and I'm going to organize a non-smoking march in support of eleminating the smoking ban.

I could staple our rights on their foreheads and it wouldn't matter.

Where have smoking bans been rescinded. I've never heard of such a thing. I'd like to know where and how?

They just did it in Atlantic city.

They did it in Montana in the editorial I posted.

[leemajors]

I'd like you to back that up. I and many others disagree.

When did we start giving people the right to choose for us? Thats the real argument behind all of this. I understand doing things to protect the public but in the case of bars it simply doesn't fit. The choice is there. I don't want them deciding for me. Its Un-American.

the red river bar scene here in austin backs it up. they're doing fine, booking more acts than ever.

[BacktoBasics]

They just did it in Atlantic city.

They did it in Montana in the editorial I posted.

only in casinos I think. Probably realized that it wasn't a good idea to expect your prospective customer to actually leave your establishment in the middle of spending money.

[ChumpDumper]

only in casinos I think. Probably realized that it wasn't a good idea to expect your prospective customer to actually leave your establishment in the middle of spending money.

In both cases, the economic argument was used. It got parts of the ban up here rescinded or altered for a time up here before it all turned out to be bull .

[leemajors]

In both cases, the economic argument was used. It got parts of the ban up here rescinded or altered for a time up here before it all turned out to be bull .

yeah the owner of beerland threw a gigantic hissy fit about it, stating he would lose all his business. nothing happened, and nobody complains about it anymore at all. it's nice to have all the outdoor patios and decks now though at the different bars.

[BacktoBasics]

the red river bar scene here in austin backs it up. they're doing fine, booking more acts than ever.

You're missing my point. Obviously people would choose to go out over staying home. They would also choose a smoking establishment over a non-smoking one. Corpus has at least proved that here with the partial ban.

The ultimate point is that I don't think its right for someone else to make the choice for me. This is a blatant stripping of my right to choose and the rights of the business owners to choose too.

I'm tired of them inforcing what they think I should do. I want my right to choice back. I want the business owners rights back and I want you to exercise your right to not walk in the place.

Now again for the millionth time I can see where its applicable and beneficial in a lot of places publically even though its still a clear violation of the business owners right to choose.

Austin is a strange town but if they lifted the ban tomorrow do you think all these bars and pool halls would still enforce non-smoking? I don't think you can honestly say yes. Even if some did over time people would migrate to the smoking venues because they "choose" to do so.

Do you not see the freedoms people are losing.

[BacktoBasics]

For a minute can we please move this discussion to actual personal property rights instead of fiscal ramifications?

I think some of you guys are making fine arguments I do but I'd like to see more points agruing against the business owners rights to run their business as they see fit.

Fiscally well or not I think nearly all of those business would go back to allowing smokers if they could.

So I'd like you guys to drop your .02 on why its ok to strip us of our ability to exercise free will and the ability of the business owner to operate his personal property how he sees fit. Most of you guys aren't Pro bailouts why is ok for the government to meddle with this?

I think its tough to take the health angle because drinking, smoking, pill popping, fast food and so forth are all perfectly legal and you still have a choice there. So my argument would be centered on bars not restaurants, grocery stores, malls and like public places. Would you not be outraged if they banned fast food? Booze?