U.S. Interrogator: Torture doesn't work

[LnGrrrR]

Not on the battlefield we don't. Decisions are situational.


Then join the NSA, CIA, or some branch of the military and get in their intelligence service and have at it.

How would you define this battlefield? Are there any limitations to it? Could you think of ANY citizen who would not be subject to extradition, torture, etc if the government said it was necessary?

And I tried getting into intel, but they threw me in communications. Go figure. But I can still be active duty USAF and have a healthy distrust of the government.

[Yonivore]

How would you define this battlefield? Are there any limitations to it? Could you think of ANY citizen who would not be subject to extradition, torture, etc if the government said it was necessary?

Sorry, I'm not going to take the time to detail, for you, all the various cir stances when I would or would not countenance harsh interrogation techniques. Suffice it to say, from what I know, to date, I'm okay with what's happened.

And I tried getting into intel, but they threw me in communications. Go figure. But I can still be active duty USAF and have a healthy distrust of the government.

Yeah, go figure...I can't imagine why you wouldn't fit in intelligence.

[DarkReign]

Winehole, I like your style. Reason without bias. Thats uncommon.

[Yonivore]

you've made clear what approach you'd use as an only option.

Actually, I haven't. But, if that's all your simple mind can grasp; who am I to try and educate a ' over the internets.

[clambake]

Actually, I haven't. But, if that's all your simple mind can grasp; who am I to try and educate a ' over the internets.

who did you steal that from?

[Yonivore]

who did you steal that from?

Rodney Dangerfield.

[clambake]

oh, and did you notice that fear didn't work this time?

or are you just in too deep?

[Yonivore]

oh, and did you notice that fear didn't work this time?

or are you just in too deep?

I guess I didn't notice. What are you on about now?

[Winehole23]

Sorry, I'm not going to take the time to detail, for you, all the various cir stances when I would or would not countenance harsh interrogation techniques. Suffice it to say, from what I know, to date, I'm okay with what's happened.

Thanks for driving us to BFE and back to make the same point. Over and over again. It was worth the price of admission.

[Yonivore]

Thanks for driving us to BFE and back to make the same point. Over and over again. It was worth the price of admission.

Well, even if it wasn't; there's no refunds. Y'all come back now, here?

[clambake]

it's clear that they have you so scared you can't compose a thought of your own.

[Yonivore]

it's clear that they have you so scared you can't compose a thought of your own.

Ah, I see...

[LnGrrrR]

Sorry, I'm not going to take the time to detail, for you, all the various cir stances when I would or would not countenance harsh interrogation techniques. Suffice it to say, from what I know, to date, I'm okay with what's happened.


Yeah, go figure...I can't imagine why you wouldn't fit in intelligence.

How hard is it to detail where this battlefield ends? You were the one who brought this up, so it should be easy for you to tell me where the limits are on the battlefield.

Oh, and I had the scores for intel... 99 ASVAB overall. But you don't always get to choose your job in the military, especially when you fail out of your first choice, EOD.

[LnGrrrR]

Another person wo obviously has no idea what he's talking about when he says torture is not effective and just puts our soldiers at risk...

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/12/hbc-90004036

[RandomGuy]

I asked you what reason we have for keeping the cons utional protections around.

What is that reason?

To protect the citizens of the United States of America.

From whom/what?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, go figure...I can't imagine why you wouldn't fit in intelligence.

...says the chicken who has never been in the military.

I did fit in rather well in intelligence. I got some rather good praise from my company commanders because I managed to put 2 and 2 together on more than one occasion in large brigade+ level exercises and deliver some pretty timely and accurate warnings.

I think you are full of , and are so intellectually hobbled by the blinders of your own making that you would be virtually worthless as an intel analyst.

[LnGrrrR]

So that's two military guys on the board against it... why do all the troops hate America? lol

Honestly, I don't think I've seen many military in public vouching for these programs either. Most seem to be against it.

[8ft.tall.tejano]

How hard is it to detail where this battlefield ends? You were the one who brought this up, so it should be easy for you to tell me where the limits are on the battlefield.

Oh, and I had the scores for intel... 99 ASVAB overall. But you don't always get to choose your job in the military, especially when you fail out of your first choice, EOD.

dude EOD! thats some real ninja ....was my original mos, but i couldn't get a security clearance, apparently ex-potheads can't play w/bombs....

but to add to the board...torture is not only anti-american, it doesn't accomplish .......you just get bad info from someone who already thinks you're going to kill him...

[LnGrrrR]

At least I got past the part the demolition phase... we did a 1,000 lb shot that day. It was awesome.

[Yonivore]

dude EOD! thats some real ninja ....was my original mos, but i couldn't get a security clearance, apparently ex-potheads can't play w/bombs....

Actually, it was probably the "ninja " talk.

but to add to the board...torture is not only anti-american, it doesn't accomplish .......you just get bad info from someone who already thinks you're going to kill him...

You're not adding, this has been said at least a dozen times in this thread alone.



Aside from the assertion (both, by Duncan Hunter in the above video and Vice President Cheney in a video posted earlier) that waterboarding one al Qaedan led us to Khalid Shaihk Mohammed and that waterboarding Khalid Shaihk Mohammed garnered -- at the time -- most of what we knew about al Qaeda and revealed al Qaeda operations in the implementation stages; aside from all that -- if it wasn't enough; let's see what torture did for the Sri Lankans...

A Nasty Business

I cannot use his real name, so I will call him Thomas. However, I had been told before our meeting, by the mutual friend ”a former Sri Lankan intelligence officer who had also long fought the LTTE” who introduced us (and was present at our meeting), that Thomas had another name, one better known to his friends and enemies alike: Terminator. My friend explained how Thomas had acquired his sobriquet; it actually owed less to Arnold Schwarzenegger than to the merciless way in which he discharged his duties as an intelligence officer. This became clear to me during our conversation.

"By going through the process of laws," Thomas patiently explained, as a parent or a teacher might speak to a bright yet uncomprehending child, "you cannot fight terrorism."

Terrorism, he believed, could be fought only by thoroughly "terrorizing" the terrorists” that is, inflicting on them the same pain that they inflict on the innocent.

Thomas had little confidence that I understood what he was saying. I was an academic, he said, with no actual experience of the life-and-death choices and the immense responsibility borne by those charged with protecting society from attack.

Accordingly, he would give me an example of the split-second decisions he was called on to make. At the time, Colombo was on "code red" emergency status, because of intelligence that the LTTE was planning to embark on a campaign of bombing public gathering places and other civilian targets. Thomas's unit had apprehended three terrorists who, it suspected, had recently planted somewhere in the city a bomb that was then ticking away, the minutes counting down to catastrophe.

The three men were brought before Thomas. He asked them where the bomb was. The terrorists”highly dedicated and steeled to resist interrogation”remained silent. Thomas asked the question again, advising them that if they did not tell him what he wanted to know, he would kill them. They were unmoved.

So Thomas took his pistol from his gun belt, pointed it at the forehead of one of them, and shot him dead. The other two, he said, talked immediately; the bomb, which had been placed in a crowded railway station and set to explode during the evening rush hour, was found and defused, and countless lives were saved.

On other occasions, Thomas said, similarly recalcitrant terrorists were brought before him. It was not surprising, he said, that they initially refused to talk; they were schooled to withstand harsh questioning and coercive pressure. No matter: a few drops of gasoline flicked into a plastic bag that is then placed over a terrorist's head and cinched tight around his neck with a web belt very quickly prompts a full explanation of the details of any planned attack.

Waterboarding - by comparison - is safe, effective, and less damaging than a bullet in the brain.

I don't see this as a difficult choice. I understand that we are doing bad. But I also understand we are doing bad in order to do good. That happens sometimes.

Thomas, you'll note, didn't just torture a terrorist; he actually "murdered" one in cold blood. (I don't know that I would really call this "murder," but I've no doubt as to what the statutes would say about it.)

Did he do wrong?

Should he have just allowed the bomb to detonate?

Would that have been the more moral choice? By what calculus?

Those who say "torture never works" have to address this expert's eyewitness testimony to the contrary. Or else they're just being disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

[8ft.tall.tejano]

Actually, it was probably the "ninja " talk.

what does saying "ninja " have to do w/not being able to get a security clearance?........................probably the most foul mouthed person i met in the service was one of my first sgt's who was a former long hair, so its not like language ever became a problem for him..........


but i was adding something because it was MY first appearance on the thread...

[LnGrrrR]

Yoni, your credibility is ruined. You already said you'd go past waterboarding if you thought you had to, so what's your point about waterboarding not being as bad as the Sri Lankans?

[Yonivore]

Yoni, your credibility is ruined. You already said you'd go past waterboarding if you thought you had to, so what's your point about waterboarding not being as bad as the Sri Lankans?

Whatever will I do? OMG! I'm ruined! Ruined, I tell ya!

I wasn't comparing waterboarding to a bullet in the brain. The Sri Lankan technique worked and it was torture...thus, torture works.

Waterboarding isn't as bad and, yes Virginia, it works too.

Now, I'm going to take my ruined ass and get drunk.

Ruined. ... Ruined in an internet forum.

[Yonivore]

Yoni, your credibility is ruined. You already said you'd go past waterboarding if you thought you had to, so what's your point about waterboarding not being as bad as the Sri Lankans?

So, tell me LnGrrrR, when was my credibility ruined?

[LnGrrrR]

Whatever will I do? OMG! I'm ruined! Ruined, I tell ya!

I wasn't comparing waterboarding to a bullet in the brain. The Sri Lankan technique worked and it was torture...thus, torture works.

Waterboarding isn't as bad and, yes Virginia, it works too.

Now, I'm going to take my ruined ass and get drunk.

Ruined. ... Ruined in an internet forum.

I didn'y say ruined. I just stated the fact that you have no credibility. If that makes you feel uproariously giggly, then more power to you. Cheers!