Hey K-State...

[florige]

Moving off into a tangent.

Starting to hear rumors that the Yankees are in some trouble. The economic situation is a bit dim all over - but NY has gotten hit the hardest. Companies simply cannot afford the luxury boxes that the Yankees need to sell. They assume that they will sell them by March just because they always have - but that may not prove to be the case.

You're hearing some people predict that they might have to drop down to ONLY a $120 million payroll in a few years.

The one thing that O's/Nats have going for them in this economy is the abundance of government jobs located in that area - which will be some of the last to collapse (god forbid).

Thats a good point, I never thought of that. I wish ths dude would hurry up and make up his freakin mind so I can stop holding my breath everytime I go to ESPN.

[K-State Spur]

The roller coaster continues - with things looking much more bleak today.

For the record - if they don't sign Tex*, I'm done with them until Angelos sells the team. If he won't make a legit offer for the hometown guy who would be the new face of the franchise, then there is absolutely no reason to believe that he will ever re-invest in this club again. He did spend from '95-98. Then, during the losing seasons, he found out he could make almost as much money with much smaller payrolls (expenses). And that's how you end up here.

*Unless the O's made a compe ive offer and he ends up signing for something ridiculous like $26+ million/year. I'll admit that there is a number that they just shouldn't exceed.

[florige]

The roller coaster continues - with things looking much more bleak today.

For the record - if they don't sign Tex*, I'm done with them until Angelos sells the team. If he won't make a legit offer for the hometown guy who would be the new face of the franchise, then there is absolutely no reason to believe that he will ever re-invest in this club again. He did spend from '95-98. Then, during the losing seasons, he found out he could make almost as much money with much smaller payrolls (expenses). And that's how you end up here.

*Unless the O's made a compe ive offer and he ends up signing for something ridiculous like $26+ million/year. I'll admit that there is a number that they just shouldn't exceed.

But I was listening to the radio today and they were saying that Boras is notorious for playing these type of back and forth games with the media in order to get the most money for his clients. If Boston sighs him for something that stupid then they can have him. They said dealing with that asshole is almost impossible. I just read on CBS that Boston officials are in Texas. Thats why I take much joy when NY and Boston both crash and burn in the playoffs. With Angelos it seems after he got screwed over with Joey Belle he pretty much just said screw it. But do you remember actually when it was we actually started sucking perenially though? Yep as soon as Pat Gillick left and Angelos brought in the "yes men" who couldn't negotiate a contract if it killed them. Those years when we were in the playoffs, those were Gillick assembled rosters. But you know, if we lose Tex and it comes out that Angelos had NOTHING to do with it, like you said McPhail pretty much bails out because the offer has become ridiculous, then I won't be so pissed. I do have a feeling that Boston is going to grossly over pay for this guy. I'm still hoping though.

[K-State Spur]

But I was listening to the radio today and they were saying that Boras is notorious for playing these type of back and forth games with the media in order to get the most money for his clients. If Boston sighs him for something that stupid then they can have him. They said dealing with that asshole is almost impossible. I just read on CBS that Boston officials are in Texas. Thats why I take much joy when NY and Boston both crash and burn in the playoffs. With Angelos it seems after he got screwed over with Joey Belle he pretty much just said screw it. But do you remember actually when it was we actually started sucking perenially though? Yep as soon as Pat Gillick left and Angelos brought in the "yes men" who couldn't negotiate a contract if it killed them. Those years when we were in the playoffs, those were Gillick assembled rosters. But you know, if we lose Tex and it comes out that Angelos had NOTHING to do with it, like you said McPhail pretty much bails out because the offer has become ridiculous, then I won't be so pissed. I do have a feeling that Boston is going to grossly over pay for this guy. I'm still hoping though.

The problem with baseball's economic system is that it would be very difficult for Boston to sign him to a "stupid" deal by their standards. Even if they only get $10 million/year production at a $25 million/year cost, they can afford to eat that difference.

Bryan Cashman and Theo Epstein get credit for being these great GMs, but both have made numerous moves that would have crippled any other franchises. The difference is that they have the budget that they can afford to eat their mistakes and move along to the next product.

I think the beginning of the end for the O's was the firing of Davey Johnson. Then, that offseason, Angelos nixed a Frank Wren trade of Alomar/Palmeiro in exchange for Baerga/Olerud to the Mets. He was right to nix it, but it also led to him thinking that he was smarter than anybody else in the room on baseball matters.

I do think he felt burned on the Belle deal - but he got 70% of that contract back in insurance, so it he shouldn't have let it affect future decisions.

[florige]

The problem with baseball's economic system is that it would be very difficult for Boston to sign him to a "stupid" deal by their standards. Even if they only get $10 million/year production at a $25 million/year cost, they can afford to eat that difference.

Bryan Cashman and Theo Epstein get credit for being these great GMs, but both have made numerous moves that would have crippled any other franchises. The difference is that they have the budget that they can afford to eat their mistakes and move along to the next product.

I think the beginning of the end for the O's was the firing of Davey Johnson. Then, that offseason, Angelos nixed a Frank Wren trade of Alomar/Palmeiro in exchange for Baerga/Olerud to the Mets. He was right to nix it, but it also led to him thinking that he was smarter than anybody else in the room on baseball matters.

I do think he felt burned on the Belle deal - but he got 70% of that contract back in insurance, so it he shouldn't have let it affect future decisions.

What do you think of this story?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...,7021656.story

[K-State Spur]

What do you think of this story?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...,7021656.story

Haha. That makes my panic look stupid. I had done a pretty good job of keeping myself emotionally removed from this situation - but I've been riding the roller coaster of late.

The Red Sox fans (knowledgeable ones at least, not the Pink Hats) have said that Theo won't play Boras' game. They'd make a take-it-or-leave-it offer. I just kinda assumed that when they went to Tejas, they wouldn't take no for an answer.

If there is any accuracy to that story (and there is so much misinformation out there, who the knows) - that just leaves the O's & Gnats w/possibly the Yanks as a dark horse (although the Bombers usually wear their intentions on their sleeves, so it would be a rare occurrence for them to come out of nowhere and swipe a guy).

So, I guess what I'm saying is...I need a beer.

[K-State Spur]

The fear with the Nats is that they are such a wild card. If there was any team in these negotiations that would make a completely unbelievably irresponsible offer - where he could perform to his career averages and they'd still want to unload his deal within 3 years - it would be Washington.

[florige]

Haha. That makes my panic look stupid. I had done a pretty good job of keeping myself emotionally removed from this situation - but I've been riding the roller coaster of late.

The Red Sox fans (knowledgeable ones at least, not the Pink Hats) have said that Theo won't play Boras' game. They'd make a take-it-or-leave-it offer. I just kinda assumed that when they went to Tejas, they wouldn't take no for an answer.

If there is any accuracy to that story (and there is so much misinformation out there, who the knows) - that just leaves the O's & Gnats w/possibly the Yanks as a dark horse (although the Bombers usually wear their intentions on their sleeves, so it would be a rare occurrence for them to come out of nowhere and swipe a guy).

So, I guess what I'm saying is...I need a beer.

I keep hearing that the Yankees are a possible dark horse in the situation. But like I said before when that Boston deal was "imminent", when I didn't hear nothing about a signing after a couple of days after that story, I knew that was good news for the O's. I don't know K, I have a good feeling about this one. I have a good feeling..... I seriously doubt he will pick Washington over us. I am starting to feel giddy!!

[florige]

The fear with the Nats is that they are such a wild card. If there was any team in these negotiations that would make a completely unbelievably irresponsible offer - where he could perform to his career averages and they'd still want to unload his deal within 3 years - it would be Washington.

Oh my goodness, that would be such a slap in the face if he signs with Washington over us....

[K-State Spur]

I keep hearing that the Yankees are a possible dark horse in the situation. But like I said before when that Boston deal was "imminent", when I didn't hear nothing about a signing after a couple of days after that story, I knew that was good news for the O's. I don't know K, I have a good feeling about this one. I have a good feeling..... I seriously doubt he will pick Washington over us. I am starting to feel giddy!!

The media keeps reporting it like the Yanks are in on it - but when have they EVER been a dark horse for a premium free agent?

They've always resorted the shock & awe tactics - this is who we want, we'll offer them well above market value, and we'll do it publicly so that the players association will make it impossible for them to take less to go elsewhere (not that many of the guys would choose to do that anyways).

I guess new ownership could be changing the strategy. But there is really no reason to be covert when you're the biggest dog on the block.

[K-State Spur]

Oh my goodness, that would be such a slap in the face if he signs with Washington over us....

Plus Bowden is an idiot to the levels of being completely unpredictable.

Millions of Americans unemployed, yet he still has a job - some might see that as a sign that there is no god.

[florige]

The media keeps reporting it like the Yanks are in on it - but when have they EVER been a dark horse for a premium free agent?

They've always resorted the shock & awe tactics - this is who we want, we'll offer them well above market value, and we'll do it publicly so that the players association will make it impossible for them to take less to go elsewhere (not that many of the guys would choose to do that anyways).

I guess new ownership could be changing the strategy. But there is really no reason to be covert when you're the biggest dog on the block.

Exactly! The Yankees have never been shy about being out there about who they are after. I'm not doubting they haven't maybe made him an offer, but I think their name is there so much when it comes to free agents of this calliber, the media just puts them in the running out of habit/courtesy...
Like you said, if they REALLY wanted him, they would had been overpaid for him already.

Plus Bowden is an idiot to the levels of being completely unpredictable.

Millions of Americans unemployed, yet he still has a job - some might see that as a sign that there is no god.

[florige]

Man this dude is really starting to piss me off. Sign somewhere already! These back and forth games with Boras is getting annoying.

[K-State Spur]

Maybe overstated saying "done with this team."

But I've dropped my extra innings package. I won't be going up to catch the team for their weekend series in KC like I do every year. I will be completely apathetic in every sense of the word.

[florige]

Maybe overstated saying "done with this team."

But I've dropped my extra innings package. I won't be going up to catch the team for their weekend series in KC like I do every year. I will be completely apathetic in every sense of the word.

What about Manny Ramirez here? Man I am really reaching now....

[K-State Spur]

Yeah - that's a reach.

Even if they did sign Manny, the only good thing of that would be an indication that PGA does care about his fans and re-investing in the team. But, Manny would be a s of himself by the time the young pitching is ready to produce. Tex is young enough that he should still be very productive in 2010-2011 when the rotation looks like Matusz/Guthrie/Arrieta/Tillman/Olson

[florige]

Yeah - that's a reach.

Even if they did sign Manny, the only good thing of that would be an indication that PGA does care about his fans and re-investing in the team. But, Manny would be a s of himself by the time the young pitching is ready to produce. Tex is young enough that he should still be very productive in 2010-2011 when the rotation looks like Matusz/Guthrie/Arrieta/Tillman/Olson

This sucks! But you know what, I'm not too worried about it. It will just make it that much sweeter to see the Yankees lose again next year and Yanks fans wondering wtf!? lol

[K-State Spur]

It's official, we're a small market team.

Give the Lerners (who want to invest money into their club) a few years in DC and they'll make the Orioles the 'other' team in that region.

[florige]

It's official, we're a small market team.

Give the Lerners (who want to invest money into their club) a few years in DC and they'll make the Orioles the 'other' team in that region.

You know K-State I am sitting here thinking wondering did he ever have any intentions of coming here at all. I mean Washington from what I heard was offering the same amount the Yankees were. I mean I wanted the guy no doubt, (and maybe this is just me talking in denial here) but I didn't want to overpay for this guy with some outrageous amount. I'm pretty sure that McPhail was told that for the cost of my client not winning for 2-3 seasons, we feel that the offer should be in the 200's, in which case if I were McPhail I would tell him and client to go to . We aren't that far off, if it takes that much for you to play for the team you grew up idolizing then don't let the doorknob hit you schumuck. It just sucks that of ALL the teams that could have signed this , it had to be the Yankees. I mean if Boston would have signed him, it would had been bad, but at least we wouldn't all be standing here scratching our heads wondering wtf just happened here. Boston was supposedly the front runners from day one. So it wouldn't had been THAT much of a surprise than this crap.
I'll tell you what though, he had better invest in some damn fine earplugs when he makes it to Camden Yards this year. That is one thing he had better do!

[K-State Spur]

When you offer 7/150 - that's a PR offer. You know he's not going accept it, but it looks good to your fan base on paper.

8/180 is overpaying for his actual production. That's more than Pujols makes for goodness sakes - and Tex is not Pujols' class. But he was worth more to the Orioles because of all that it would have symbolized - local guy returning home, the owner IS willing to spend on his team, we're tired of seeing every top player go to NYY/BOS, etc.

I don't think he has to worry about the boos. The 70% Yankee fans in attendance will drown it out with their cheers.

[florige]

When you offer 7/150 - that's a PR offer. You know he's not going accept it, but it looks good to your fan base on paper.

8/180 is overpaying for his actual production. That's more than Pujols makes for goodness sakes - and Tex is not Pujols' class. But he was worth more to the Orioles because of all that it would have symbolized - local guy returning home, the owner IS willing to spend on his team, we're tired of seeing every top player go to NYY/BOS, etc.

I don't think he has to worry about the boos. The 70% Yankee fans in attendance will drown it out with their cheers.

Good point! Even though last season I went to both Yankees and Red Sox games. Last year at least there were more Oriole fans there than Yankees fans. But when I went and saw the O's play Boston I didn't know whether I was in Camden Yards or Fenway. I remember my friend managing to dose off. He woke up to a Boston homerun and started applauding along with the Boston fans because he thought that the O's had just done something good. I asked him what the he was doing, and he was like "I thought the O's just scored". lol

[K-State Spur]

Well, I've changed my stance a bit. Reading Tex's quotes lately, I don't think he ever had any intention of signing with anybody other than the Yanks or Red Sox. The O's and Nats were just a tool used by Boras to increase the bids from those clubs (shocking, I know...).

None of that absolves ownership from the quagmire they've turned this franchise into. And they still should have made a play for Burrell or Dunn, but I won't say that not getting Tex is unforgivable anymore.

I guess on the plus side, by Tex signing with the Yanks - Boras ed his client ManRam's chances of getting a giant deal this offseason.

[florige]

Well, I've changed my stance a bit. Reading Tex's quotes lately, I don't think he ever had any intention of signing with anybody other than the Yanks or Red Sox. The O's and Nats were just a tool used by Boras to increase the bids from those clubs (shocking, I know...).

None of that absolves ownership from the quagmire they've turned this franchise into. And they still should have made a play for Burrell or Dunn, but I won't say that not getting Tex is unforgivable anymore.

I guess on the plus side, by Tex signing with the Yanks - Boras ed his client ManRam's chances of getting a giant deal this offseason.

Yeah really! He is almost in the same category now as Giambi. Well not that bad, but you get the point.
I think he never had intentions of signing with anybody else besides NY. Him and Boras were just playing the waiting game pretty much. Unless the O's or the Nats were going to offer him something in the 230 range.

[florige]

What do you think about us resigning Markakis, and that guy Pie K-State? We should have an awesome outfield this season!

[K-State Spur]

The Markakis resigning (along with Weiters falling to them in the draft) is the best thing to happen to this franchise since '97.

Pie has always been long on talent and short on production. His MLB numbers don't bother me much - it's a relatively small sample and his Minor League numbers project to him being much better as he gets more experience. However, having watched him a bit, it does bother me that he has looked completely overmatched by MLB pitching. Scott is a league average defender in left, so I personally would have rather left him out there and seen the team go after a guy like Dunn to play 1b.

I was kinda on the Garrett Olson bandwagon, so it's tough for me to get behind this move 100%. But I also accept the very real possibility that MacPhail can come out like a genius on this one. Pie was the Cubs top prospect for 3 years and hasn't really failed over an extended period yet, so this could work out very well.