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Could have? No . It's easy to look back and say all kinds of COULD HAVE happened. They COULD have traded Dirk and Nash for Shaq back in 2004. They COULD have traded Dirk for Kobe last year. The coulda woulda is pointless to blow your chode over.
No - The team is now weaker in crucial areas
Yes - Kidd is what is needed to get them that championship
Ouch, if true, Mavfan gotta be pissed.How good would they be now with Harris, Diop, James Posey and Nicolas Batum or Luc Mbah a Moute? Could have happened.
Could have? No . It's easy to look back and say all kinds of COULD HAVE happened. They COULD have traded Dirk and Nash for Shaq back in 2004. They COULD have traded Dirk for Kobe last year. The coulda woulda is pointless to blow your chode over.
Um...
I'll say it again: Answer the question.
It's not true at all. No one ever said that Posey and those other guys were going to come to Dallas. Was it possible? MAYBE. True? By no ing means. Obstructed_View is just being a ing dumbass. The most that ever came out about anything like that was that the Mavs were interested in Posey. But he signed with Boston, as ing everyone was wanting to go to Boston after the KG and Allen pickups they got. He wasn't going to come to the Mavericks.
How good would the Mavs have been with Harris, Diop, (insert first round draft pick here) and (insert MLE free agent here) instead of with Kidd?
Answer the question.
Okay dude, what you were saying, and what mono said are two completely different things and you know it. If you say you don't, or some stupid like "he said would have which is exactly what I said", I have nothing further to discuss with your ignorant ass.
Not much better.
Question answered.
Now answer me - Do you really think Devin Harris as the 4th option, unable to dominate the ball and do as he wishes for 40 minutes a night the way he does in New Jersey, along with a role player like James Posey, makes the first round exit Mavs a le contender on the same level as the Lakers and Celtics?
Is the Kidd trade a bad one? It certainly appears so. But unless Devin Harris leads the Nets to a le, it is nowhere near the disaster that stat-driven, "who needs to watch games when you can just look up box scores!", basketball morons are making it out to be.
There is no telling. We have Diop anyways, and he is sucking balls. So basically it comes down to Kidd and Harris. Harris has been doing more scoring, while Kidd has been playing great defense, distributing shots well, and hitting open 3s... none of which were Harris' strong suits. And for those who praise Harris' defense so much... yes, he did a good job against Parker, but other than that, his defense consisted of drawing charges, and not much else. Kidd is doing a great job at getting steals by cutting off passing lanes, forcing opponents into tough shots (which is the best type of defense someone can play, see Bowen/Posey), and rebounding effectively.
And for people who talk about how he got "killed" by CP3, that is an absolutely ridiculous way to judge his defense. To guard a player the caliber of CP3, it takes a team effort. There isn't anyone who can consistently guard players like him one on one. Kidd actually did a pretty solid job on him when Dampier was in the game. As soon as Damp went out, thats when the Hornets would go on their runs because no one was manning the middle, leading to globs of open buckets for their athletic players. Having a guy in the middle forces a team to change the way they defend COMPLETELY.
Devin Harris got "killed" by CP3 just a few months earlier in a Mavs uniform.
Oh, but that was before he got basketball lessons from Jesus, so it doesn't count.
Somehow all of Devin's failures as a Maverick are thrown right out the window as him simply being inexperienced, yet just a few months later as a Net he's talked about like a seasoned veteran who is smart beyond his years. And those gots have the nerve to say Mavs fans change opinions to fit their arguments
And Mavs fans, don't forget - Spurs fans know more about your team than you do. They root for a team with 4 rings, so that proves it.
I don't know why Spurfan dislikes Kidd so much. If they would've signed him in 03, they'd be in a 4peat right now.
Yeah, they're actually two different things, mine is the corrected version of what Mono said. The discussion is whether or not the trade is good, and you can't just say "well Devin Harris would be worth X if he were here instead of Kidd" because the Mavs traded away a whole lot more than Devin Harris to get Kidd. They had to waste the entire MLE on Diop, which they could have used to get someone else. And actually he might have been an expiring contract so he wouldn't have been part of my scenario, which means little because, like you said, he sucks this year anyway.
Okay dude, what you were saying, and what mono said are two completely different things and you know it.
The trade sucked, KnowstroDDamus strikes again.
DD
it wasn't just Kidd for Harris, that they also threw in two first-round picks, one of which could be a lottery pick in 2010 and is completely unprotected. So therefore the onus is on them to remain a playoff-level team to keep the deal from getting worse. Harris was a 25-year-old PG that had just signed an extension and is locked up for several years at a bargain price. OV is correct that the Mavericks also essentially traded away this year's MLE in order to bring back Diop. Dallas is so far over the cap that when Kidd signs with Cleveland or the Lakers this summer for the MLE, the Mavs won't even get any salary cap relief when his cap number comes off the books.
It's true Harris wouldn't be getting 25 points and 5 dimes a game in Dallas; it would be more like 18 points and 4 assists. And while Kidd is playing relatively well, it's the height of denial to state that Harris is not as good a fit right now, as opposed to down the line when Kidd will be beating his next wife while Harris is in his prime. The reason why Chauncey Billups is better than Jason Kidd at basically the same stage of their careers is that as your athleticism and lateral quickness wanes, your skill set should be compensatory. Billups can still shoot, Kidd can't.
Dallas was first in the West when Harris played his last game for us. It's forgivable that the Dallas brass was concerned about Harris' fragility and ability to play more than 55 games in a season. More than anything that was why he was available in a trade. But the teams' biggest weaknesses were lack of perimeter defense and post scoring. WTF were they smoking by trading away their best perimeter defender for a guy who does nothing to address the lack of points in the paint? At least with Harris you can offset the lack of a traditional back to the basket scorer by an ability to penetrate the lane. Looking back, if you were going to trade Harris at all, it should've been for a post scorer while handing the starting PG duties over to JET. That might've worked. They made a Finals with JET as the starter at the 1, anyways.
And if they don't do the trade, they lose Dirk. Both on the court and off it. You think Dirk is talking about taking less money to stay here if we're still stuck with the exact same team, and possibly the same coach, that's failed for half a decade now?
The Mavs immediate future has nothing to do with Devin, Kidd, Josh, or anybody else. For better or worse, this team lives and dies with Dirk. And if Dirk doesn't want to play here anymore, if Dirk has given up on the Mavs, this team is completely in the tank whether Devin is still here or not.
I've been a "blow it up" advocate since the GS series, but most Mavs fans are not. Most Mavs fans love Dirk to the point where they are blind to his faults. Heck, I love Dirk too. And when it comes down to it, would most Mavs fans pick Dirk or Devin? Because in the end, that's what the trade boiled down to. Keep Devin and you lose Dirk. Trade Devin and Dirk still believes in the Mavericks. So which is it, Dirk or Devin?
Kobe once stood in a Ralph's parking lot and in colorful language advocated a Bynum for Kidd trade...and then went through with a formal trade request when that didn't happen. Bynum has regressed this year, but has shown enough and is young enough to validate the wisdom of LA not making that move. Avery was the main engine behind giving up on Devin, not Dirk. Dirk simply gave his approval. I know he was unhappy last year, but I think that had a lot more to do with The Little Dictator than Devin. I don't think it's a simple as choosing between Dirk and Devin. I think the Kidd trade is a good example of why you don't let your star players who only see the objects of their desire twice a year play GM. If the Mavs made a substantial move that didn't specifically involve Kidd, I think Dirk would've been mollified.
It didn't matter who they went after, whether it was Kidd or Shaq or Gasol....Devin Harris was their most coveted trading chip.
At least the Mavs were smart enough to avoid doing the deal that would have sent Harris to Portland. Can you imagine how much more badass the Blazers would be right now with Devin? Tlong's sheep-loving penis would prematurely explode every night twice as hard as it already does now.
I agree with this. Despite what AJ says, (and my wish that it was actually true), I don't think he was ever happy with Harris as his point guard, because Harris isn't the pass first kind of floor general that AJ would like to have facilitating the offense for the scorers. They already had two scoring guards in Terry and Barea, and AJ's dissatisfaction with Harris is what turned Mavs nation against him and, coupled with his injuries, ultimately made him into a trade commodity. At least that's the way it felt at the time, despite AJ's attempts to go back and whitewash it.
Don't you wish they had used that trading chip to address a crippling weakness? What was the reason given that would help the team? Kidd would facilitate an offense harder to shut down in the playoffs with his passing and floor vision? Kidd would give the team those intangibles that were missing against Miami and Golden State? Kidd is better in an uptempo system, and the games grind to a halt in the playoffs.
This video is from August 4, 2004
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