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I have been watching since 1980 he is the best but people act like he was never contained ok ask the Pistons or watch the EC playoffs in 87 88 and 89 he was contained by Detroit ...
Yeah...I remember that game. Kobe just flat out quit. He stopped shooting in the 2nd half.
I have been watching since 1980 he is the best but people act like he was never contained ok ask the Pistons or watch the EC playoffs in 87 88 and 89 he was contained by Detroit ...
As for Kobe vs. Phoenix I agree was puzzling ...not sure what happened personally I dont care ...that series was lost way before that and more importantly as much as I Admire his game he is not even better than Magic much less of Jordan I would argue Magic is better than MJ and have a better argument Magic greatest Laker ever ...
I can only think of 1 team. And the Pistons failed to do it in that last season and got swept. So it only worked on him in from team in a few series when he was young.
Last edited by GetNashty; 12-28-2008 at 05:26 AM.
That's not the argument most are making. The question is if Jordan ever looked like the took a night off because the Bulls won 70 games or had 3 or 4 rings? Did he always try his hardest?
Secondly, it was 1988 (East Semifinals), 1989 (East Finals), 1990 (East Finals), and 1991 (East Finals) they met in the playoffs. 1987 the Pistons played the Bullets, Hawks, and Celtics.
http://www.nba.com/history/playoffs/19861987.html
In 1988 the Bulls were a bad team. In 1989, Grant, Paxon, and Pippen had emerged. Dave Corzine was a great role player in that Conference Final matchup. But Jordan looked like the best athlete in the world and their defense translated into Detroit's 'feature' offense being exposed. In short, for these two years, Jordan looked young.
In 1990, the Pistons had jelled. They had an incredible balance and it was Laimbeer who made the difference. The Bulls were more potent with Hodges taking Vincent's role in the lineup.
1991, the Bulls had learned how to dictate tempo and the Pistons were coming apart offensively. This is the year it showed they needed Dantley and not Aguirre. Dumars was a power guard because of how much strength he added. Thomas was off his game because of his multiple surgeries that year. And the Bulls were just a better basketball team. Scott Williams, BJ Armstrong, Stacey King, and Will Perdue were all playing key roles.
That's what I remember
I never watched every single chicago game with MJ, but where I grew up we got WGN/Chicago that played every game so the only NBA action I could watch was the bulls and MJ was always out to kill.
Kobe vs Pho baffled me and then in other games where his team falls behind he would try to take over, but pass over easy assists which pretty much meant the game was over.
This is taken from Mike Monroe's article posted here on this site ...
The end of Chicago’s 18-game streak in 1996 was hastened by some late night carousing. The Bulls had gone to Denver having won 31 of their previous 32 games to play a Sunday game against a Denver team that wasn’t as horrid as the Warriors have been this season but had won only 18 of 44.
As for some of the Bulls teams sucked argument yes they did as did Kobe's Lakers post Shaq until last year ...
Look don't take my posts as saying MJ is not the GOAT only player that for my money that you could argue was better was MAgic but it was a different better ...if you look at David robionson's best years vs. Duncan's best stats will show he is the BETTER player but Duncan has more tiotles MVP's etc. so stats arent everything I think Magic is at leats worthy of an argument be he himself will say MJ is better I would NEVER argue that Kobe is BETTER than MJ but he is the closest of all the annoited NEXTguys ...until Lebron matures than it willbe LBJ's burden to bear ...
I just hate all the nut swinging of MJ when many on here started watching when MJ was winning but dont factor in MJ's strugglled early (when Kobe was winning already) a point Doug collins has made on-air many times ...
On my scale MJ is a 10 magic 9.5 and Kobe/Lebron a 9 (LBJ will get better)
some people act as though Jordan was perfect and WAYYYY better than kobe or LBJ he is just better ...
Plus watch the old games MJ was WAYYY ahead of his time centers were better but athlete wise there were few in his class (a huge advantage) to further my point look at LBJ's era though he is FROM a physical standpoint every bit MJ's equal or even mor eimposing... but he CAN NOT dominate on that level of Mj BEACUASE at his position alone look at the athletes that can make thinngs difficult ... Tayshaun, Melo, Pierece, Grant hill, Gwallace, Iguadola Butler etc. th best players in the 80's early 90's were more scores than athletes and played a smart floor game than above the rim Mj is the father of this era of basketball
When Mj played he got cooper, Scott, dumars, Dennis johnson, ALvin Roberston, Sleept Floyd, Mitch Ricmond Clyde Drexler Reggie miller some of them great defenders (smarts positioning etc.)...very few in a class of athlete as Mj, Lebron or Kobe ...this is not hating just facts ...
Mj greatest (so far) but if LEbron ever puts up MJ's numbers etc. I would argue his feat is MORE impressive than Mj's (and Im not a Lebron fanboy) teams were much better OFFENSIVELY in Mj's era (early) reall good defensively second 3 peat (later) ...but athletes are wAYYY better now what CENTER could do what Dwight Howard does? !
I also watched WGN and it wasnt fair how much better MJ was ...Mj was babe or Tiger woods his Tiger slam year ..Lebron/Kobe are great players but their peers are much better like Woods before he hot hurt last year
One last note rules are EASIER now i admit that the handcheck rule makes scoring easier but I argue that would only further the gap in Mj's era making his stats greater but showing how weak the NBA was then ...80's best era of NBA ...200's is proably 2nd best decade 90's was garbage EXCEPT Bulls, Jazz and Rockets
Last edited by Killakobe81; 12-28-2008 at 12:51 PM.
Well then that's a stupid point that both you and Doug Collins have made.
Kobe came to a team that already had Shaq, and a team that had already won 53 games the year before.
Can you even imagine how many Championships MJ would have won with Shaq?
They would have never lost, they'd still be winning them right now...
They came to the Lakers the same year.
Tex Winter say not as many..
Shaq and MJ would've gotten along worse than Kobe and Shaq.
That's what I meant, it's not like he was there for years before Shaq came along...
I saw the Bulls from their garbage days to their glory days back to their garbage days and I can tell you Jordan didn't take nights off...especially not playoff games. Did Jordan have off shooting games? Sure he did but if that part of his game was off he'd pick it up elsewhere...playmaking, defense, rebounding, whatever it took. He had the complete floor game and used every bit of it to get a win. In the playoffs everything was turned up a notch. Even after years and years of winning that compe ive nature never went away. He wanted to dominate and play hard every night and also demanded the same of his teammates.
It's one of the reasons I sometimes get ill watching Tim Duncan and the Spurs play. There are MANY games where his heart doesn't seem to be in it, he gets out-hustled, whines like a , and plays like a flat out scrub. I know the mantra of this board is to blame it on back to backs (oooh poor Timmy is tired) and all that bull but the fact of the matter is Tim Duncan takes games off whether it's physically, mentally or both. And it filters right down to his team.
And I know one thing for damn sure. You would never in your life see Jordan come out and simply swing the ball around and stand on the perimeter like a statue for an entire 2nd half of a Game 7 with his team still in striking distance. Anyone who doesn't think Kobe quit that game has blinders on. There's nothing "baffling" about it. He flat out quit and threw his teammates under the bus to prove a point.
sadly, this is true.
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