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Thank God for another beautiful morning.
God is alive and he's a big Florida Gators fan!
Thank God for another beautiful morning.
B2B, the question of the thread was "Is there a God" and that fact cannot be proven either way. You've taken this into a debate about religion but that was not the original question of the thread. I've read all this crap about different religions that you and MH are posting but it still doesn't prove a damn thing. Period.
The general theme of a mother protecting her child from a cruel king who wants to kill the child is indeed paralleled. However, the more direct parallel is between Jesus and Moses.
This is intentionally misleading. Horus is "the god of the living on Earth" as opposed to Osiris, who is the "god of the dead." Jesus is "God with us" and "the Son of the living God."Horus, "the living God on Earth"
Jesus, "the living God on Earth"
Anu, aka Heliopolis, was the ancient center of Egyptian Ra worship. Saying that Horus was "born" there is misleading. What happened is that rituals re-enacting events in the Horus myth were carried out there.Bethlehem, place of Jesus' birth, is known as 'house of bread'. Horus is born in Anunn, also known as house of bread.
Anu means "city of the sun," not "house of bread." In order to go from Anu to "house of bread," first you have to associate the city of Anu with the constellation Virgo, and then associate Virgo with bread. The problem with these associations is that they are anachronistic, insofar as classical astrology did not come to Egypt until Alexander the Great conquered it. Prior to that, you have Babylonian astrology which had a zodiac of twelve "houses," but these are not associated with the modern constellation symbols of a scorpion, virgin, ram, fish, etc.
In addition, the reason Jesus had to be born in Bethlehem is because that is where King David was born, and there was a prophecy that the new King David aka the Messiah had to be born in Bethlehem. That is much simpler than esoteric references to historically specious astrology.
Another specious parallel the Christ-mythers will use here is that Anu is a parallel to Bethany, where Jesus raised Lazarus. This supposedly parallels Horus raising his father Osiris. As we detailed in an earlier post, the link between Lazarus and "El-Osiris" is an etymological fiction, as is the tie between Anu and Bethany. (Bethany means "house of figs.")
There is no "immaculate conception" of Jesus. The Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic doctrine that says Mary, not Jesus, was conceived free from the curse of original sin.Actually, Horus' birth WAS of an immaculate conception, aka virgin birth. You see, Osiris was DEAD. Isis tried to piece him back together, but she couldn't. His penis was thrown in a river. So she hovered over his body and 'drew his essence'.... She was impregnated by spirit. There was no actual intercourse and impregnation.
Isis was missing Osiris' dead penis, so she fashioned one out of clay.
In any event, none of this is a "virgin birth," because nowhere in Egyptian mythology is it claimed that Isis is a virgin. At best, you could claim that Isis did not conceive in the usual way. "Virgin" means "never had sex before," not "conceived with a dead guy."
You are referring here to Acharya S's reading of the panels and inscriptions at the Luxor Temple. Her reading is forced and wrong. Thoth announces to Amun that he is to impregnate the Queen of Egypt, Neith. He has sex with her and impregnates her. (The ankh is a symbol of life, and is a stylized representation of the sexual act.) He announces to her that she will bear his son, Amenophis.The God Taht announced to her that she would become pregnant.
The god Kneph (the Holy Spirit) mystically impregnated the virgin Isis by holding a cross, the symbol of life, to her mouth.
Ina general sense, there are parallels between Jesus' nativity and various ancient legends of the birth of a king, but those parallels are the point.
When you have to make the tenuous connection between the Isis account and some other parallel goddess, you have reduced the supposedly devastating connection down to the general idea of a female deity. You still won't find the name "Isis-Meri" outside of Acharya S's work.Isis ultimately absorbed and represented hundreds if not thousands of different goddesses, all forms of the Mother, ISIS. Her worship survived until around the 6th century AD, until it was largely replaced by the new Mother, Mary, whose name was obviously influenced by Isis' form of MERI, Goddess of Nature and Harvest.
A far likelier connection would be to Miriam in the Old Testament account of Moses' birth. You could then connect "Miriam" as possibly being derived from "Meri-Amon," meaning "beloved of God" in Egyptian, which could make perfect sense since she lived in Egypt.
There is little question that the Marian devotion which emerged, first in Greek Christianity, in the fourth century not the sixth, was in part fueled by converts from the pagan religions, who found in Mary a female object of devotion that was found otherwise in goddesses like Athena and Aphrodite. Even some of the les carried over. The whole question of the best way to deal with this phenomenon was dealt with at the Council of Ephesus in 431.
Christmas is celebrated on December 25. Its roots in our culture are connected to Roman Saturnalia, which shares several of the same traditions. Because it was such a popular holiday, early Christians "Christianized" it. That Christmas is more highly celebrated than Easter in the West is a residue of our pagan Gothic ancestry. That Easter is called Easter in English and not Pascha or some variant thereof may have some pagan reasons as well, though this is unclear. (Easter may refer to pagan goddess Eostra, or to the Morning Star, or to an archaic word meaning "white.")Incorrect again. Ancient Egyptians, in fact, ALMOST EVERY MAJOR CIVILIZATION in human history celebrated Dec. 25th because that is when the Sun begins it's journey back to Spring and Summer.
This is said to be the Sun 'reborn' and coming back from death. Horus being the Sun God, Egyptians celebrated Horus birth as Dec. 21st-25th, but his ACTUAL entrance into Earth was "on the last day of the Egyptian Khoaik" which falls around Nov. 15
Jesus' birth day is NEVER mentioned in the Bible, however it too is celebrated on Dec. 25th once again, to coincide with the worship of the Sun. The date was chosen to occur on the same date as the birth of Mithra, Dionysus and the Sol Invictus (unconquerable Sun), etc.
Therefore, both Horus and Jesus are just forms of Sun worship and their birthdays ARE celebrated on Dec. 21st-25th even though NEITHER Jesus nor Horus was actually born on that day.
To say conclusively that this means Christianity is just sun worship is highly speculative.
Sirius was significant in Egyptian worship, but to tie this to the Star of Bethlehem is entirely speculative.The Star in the East is Sirius.
More to come.
double post
Last edited by Extra Stout; 12-30-2008 at 12:35 PM.
so let me get this straight -
MH and B2B are trying to prove that Christians are dumb for blindly believing in texts without getting any hard facts, and that Christians believe in lies that man simply made up....
....and they're trying to make this point by cut-pasting text from websites without looking at any actual source material, blindly believing that whoever came up with this didn't just make it all up....
....
........
.....................
Look again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1248079.stm
My point was scientist say if a certain fossil is found that means that layer or age of the earth is yoda yoda yoda years old. They even gave a chart. But they have found many fossils that were discovered many years later on another level of earth so the fossil chart was just something a so called scientist created and has been used in the text books with no real study.
some species have been found alive today debunking the fossil record.
The fossil record speaks against classical Darwinian evolution, not in its favor. Where are all the transitional fossils? There should be billions of them in the earth if random processes led to major changes in species. Why don't we find them? (Hint: they never existed). Punctuated equilibrium, the "hopeful monster" theory and other similar ones just show how bankrupt the theory of evolution really is. You don't need evidence for a theory that by overwhelming political pressure is assumed to be true. Anything will do. As Hitler said, if you repeat a really big lie often enough many will believe it. Propaganda, dogmatic assertion by experts who all assume that other experts outside their field have proved the theory - these are the true keys to evolution's popularity.
I know. I hijacked the thread for a better discussion. I know that might not have ever happened here before but its not a bad thing.
There are a mul ude of sources some rooted in visual fact, some rooted in math and some rooted in interpretation thats centered around opinion.so let me get this straight -
MH and B2B are trying to prove that Christians are dumb for blindly believing in texts without getting any hard facts, and that Christians believe in lies that man simply made up....
....and they're trying to make this point by cut-pasting text from websites without looking at any actual source material, blindly believing that whoever came up with this didn't just make it all up....
....
........
.....................
I agree that much of this "god" talk between different dieties can be looked upon as opinion.
Which is exactly why I've taken the stance I have because I'm not debating interpretation of different gods. I'm pointing out the significance of the personification of important dates and times relative to a calendar. None of which is up for interpretation. It is what it is.
Even ES see some similarities.
Good Morning to you also!Good morning Mouse.
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here is another vid to watch.
Yada you must mean. Stupid you are.Look again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1248079.stm
My point was scientist say if a certain fossil is found that means that layer or age of the earth is yoda yoda yoda years old.
ES always has great posts in the political forum about religion and he delivers again.
"A Text-Book for Geology" by Schuchert?
So... you're going with a Geology textbook that is from 1915?
Got anything newer?
Modern research of the phenomena shows exactly how this is done, and they have found it happening all over the place. The phenomenon of polystrate fossils is fairly well understood by modern biologists/geologists, and the phenomenon does NOT point to a "young" earth scenario, merely one of localized, fairly rapid sedimentation, such as that of the ash deposits around Mt. St. Helens or places in rivers that get a lot of silt from erosion.
If this phenomenon was observed in EVERY substrata, then that would indicate that globally, there was a time when the earth experienced a global period of rapid sedimentation, such as the biblical great flood.
The problem with this is that this phenomenon is ONLY found in places that one would expect rapid sedimentation based on an "old-earth" theory and NOWHERE else.
Sorry charlie. This doesn't mean what you think it does.
Last edited by RandomGuy; 12-30-2008 at 11:42 AM.
Eeek. Watching someone going up against ES on this topic is a bit like watching Spud Webb trying to dunk on TD. If he were a e girl he would be Scary Smart e.ES always has great posts in the political forum about religion and he delivers again.
It happens all the time in the religion threads.so let me get this straight -
MH and B2B are trying to prove that Christians are dumb for blindly believing in texts without getting any hard facts, and that Christians believe in lies that man simply made up....
....and they're trying to make this point by cut-pasting text from websites without looking at any actual source material, blindly believing that whoever came up with this didn't just make it all up....
....
........
.....................
I concur.
Dammit. You beat me to it. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread.Good morning Mouse.
I didn't bring up a flood because flood waters recede and only leave a few inches of silt, not yards. I was answering your question: mudslides, delta silt, or volcanoes cause polystrate fossils like the one pictured. I'm not a geologist, but upright fossils are found along with evidence of the phenomena I've mentioned and do not expose the fossil record as fake.
All it took was a quick jaunt to wiki and a few geologic journal articles.
Originally Posted by mouse
Look again.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1248079.stm
My point was scientist say if a certain fossil is found that means that layer or age of the earth is yoda yoda yoda years old.
Notice that too you did. Very funny thinking that I am.
Intermediate species have been found.Good Morning to you also!
here is another vid to watch.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...tion-fish.html
Here is an example of DNA evolution.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...evolution.html
Additional structural evolution.
Evolution of the mammalian middle ear
Edgar F. Allin
Department of Anatomy. University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin 53706
The structure and evolution of the mandible, suspensorium, and stapes of mammal-like reptiles and early mammals are examined in an attempt to determine how, why, and when in phylogeny the precursors of the mammalian tympanic bone, malleus, and incus (postdentary jaw elements and quadrate) came to function in the reception of air-borne sound. The following conclusions are reached.
It is possible that at no stage in mammalian phylogeny was there a middle ear similar to that of typical living reptiles, with a postquadrate tympanic membrane contacted by an extrastapes. The squamosal sulcus of cynodonts and other therapsids, usually thought to have housed a long external acoustic meatus, possibly held a depressor mandibulae muscle.
In therapsids an air-filled chamber (recessus mandibularis of Westoll) extended deep to the reflected lamina and into the depression (external fossa) on the outer aspect of the angular element. A similar chamber was present in sphenacodontids but pterygoideus musculature occupied the small external fossa. The thin tissues superficial to the recessus mandibularis served as eardrum. Primitively, vibrations reached the stapes mainly via the anterior hyoid cornu, but in dicynodonts therocephalians, and cynodonts, vibrations passed mainly or exclusively from mandible to quadrate to stapes and the reflected lamina was a component of the eardrum.
In the therapsid phase of mammalian phylogeny, auditory adaptation was an important aspect of jaw evolution. Auditory efficiency, and sensitivity to higher sound frequencies, were enhanced by diminution and loosening of the postdentary elements and quadrate, along with transference of musculature from postdentary elements to the dentary. These changes were made possible by associated modifications, including posterior expansion of the dentary. Establishment of a dentray-squamosal articulation permitted continuation of these trends, leading to the definitive mammalian condition, with no major change in auditory mechanism except that in most mammals (not monotremes) the angular, as tympanic, eventually became a non-vibrating structure.
We also know that short term evolution of a species is possible and alive and well within our own era.
Washington, April 22 (ANI): A new research has shown that lizards are literally running on the fast track of evolution, with the prime example being Italian wall lizards introduced to a tiny island off the coast of Croatia, that evolved in 30 years in ways that would normally take millions of years to play out.
According to a report in National Geographic News, in just a few decades, the 5-inch-long (13-centimeter-long) lizards have developed a completely new gut structure, larger heads, and a harder bite.
In 1971, scientists transplanted five adult pairs of the reptiles from their original island home in Pod Kopiste to the tiny neighboring island of Pod Mrcaru, both in the south Adriatic Sea.
Genetic testing on the Pod Mrcaru lizards confirmed that the modern population of more than 5,000 Italian wall lizards are all descendants of the original ten lizards left behind in the 1970s.
According to Duncan Irschick, a study author and biology professor at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, when the researchers went back to the island, they had no idea if the original introductions were successful.
When they found that the island swarming with lizards, the researchers were taken aback.
The new habitat once had its own healthy population of lizards, which were less aggressive than the new implants, said Irschick. The new species wiped out the indigenous lizard populations, although how it happened is unknown, he added.
According to Irschick, the transplanted lizards adapted to their new environment in ways that expedited their evolution physically.
Pod Mrcaru, for example, had an abundance of plants for the primarily insect-eating lizards to munch on. Physically, however, the lizards were not built to digest a vegetarian diet.
Researchers found that the lizards developed cecal valvesmuscles between the large and small intestinethat slowed down food digestion in fermenting chambers, which allowed their bodies to process the vegetations cellulose into volatile fatty acids.
They evolved an expanded gut to allow them to process these leaves, said Irschick, adding it was something that had not been do ented before. This was a brand-new structure, he said.
Along with the ability to digest plants came the ability to bite harder, powered by a head that had grown longer and wider.
The rapid physical evolution also sparked changes in the lizards social and behavioral structure. For one, the plentiful food sources allowed for easier reproduction and a denser population.
The lizard also dropped some of its territorial defenses, the authors concluded.
Such physical transformation in just 30 lizard generations takes evolution to a whole new level, said Irschick. Thats unparalleled. Whats most important is how fast this is, he added. (ANI)
There is an abundance of supporting evidence.
That is because the "geologic column" is a teaching tool. It is a mental abstraction meant to be illustrative of a principle, and not a literal truth.
I was waiting for ES's .02 on this because my point doesn't center on direct god correlations. I'll hang up and listen. Thanks for taking my call.
Not only have intermediate species been found, so many intermediate species have been found that paleontologists have come close to fist-fights at conventions over whether to describe some of them as "reptile-like mammals" or "mammal-like reptiles" and the like.
The problem for modern biologists/sceintists is not "where are the intermediate species?" but "how do we quantify all of these intermediate species?".
How does the theory about 10,000 year old fossils explain the observations of astronomers and physicists who seem to believe the wild theory that the universe is 13 billion years old?
Perhaps there is a coyboy boot filled with photons out there somewhere?
Five-Year Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP1) Observations by the good folks at NASA (click here for the full 46 page PDF file) Points to an age somewhere in the range of 13,000,000,000+ years.
Oopsies. NASA is in on the plot too.
MH -the "facts" you posted are so preposterous - they are hilarious and unbelievable! You ridicule Christians for our beliefs and then you bring up that garbage? I'll say it again - Jesus was and IS the original and ONLY true Christ - all these other "religions" are variations on the story of Jesus. It is the pagan religions that plagarized the story of Jesus, not the other way around!
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