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Great Britain should have rethought there initial plan 60 years ago.
Years ?
Actually those rockets have killed 4 innocent civilians over the last 6 days.
Their aim, as all sensible people know, is to kill as many Jews as possible. They aim their weapons purely and simply at civilians. Sadly for them their technology isn't good enough and the bas Israelis treat civilian defence seriously.
Great Britain should have rethought there initial plan 60 years ago.
Bull . They put Hamas in power. They don't want peace though, it's not what their religious leaders tell them the Qur'an says to do.
Israelis are not taught to hate the Palestinians from childhood. They are taught that the Palestinians teach their children to kill Jews from childhood. Damn them for pointing out facts.And Aggie, what are you talking about? You don't think Israelis are taught to hate the Palestinians from an early age? In any event, why don't you look at the casualties on both sides of this equation and tell me who has done the most to whom? Just think about it for christ's sake, on one side you have the Israeli soldiers that have our abrahms tanks and our airforce fighters and then you have the Palestinians who have rocks and suicide bombs.... which one is gonna win that fight?
Everyone knows who's going to win the 'fight', that's why the people of Palestine need to realize that terror attacks against Israel aren't going to get them anything other than their heads handed to them.
Yet the leaders of Hamas keep firing rockets into Israel, and Palestinians keep teaching their kids that they can have no higher calling in their life than to strap a bomb to their chest and go blow up a bunch of Jews.
Until the culture changes in the Palestinian territories (namely, that they decide they want peace instead of the extermination of the Jews), they deserve whatever beatdowns they get when they fire enough missiles (like recently) to piss off Israel.
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Somehow, I bet if Mexico was lobbing missiles into Texas every day that were raining down on San Antonio, you'd probably be screaming for the US Military to do something about it.
Or would you just come on here and cry after we went to town with stealth fighters, F-22s, B-52s, Abrams, etc. about how brutal and one-sided things went?
If you think Israel is only fighting Palestine, you need to get informed better... There's a long list of countries in that region that would love to see Israel wiped out of the planet.
And Israel wants peace? Israel wants to keep on sending messages to Iran, Lebanon, Syria, etc that they're not to be messed with. The Palestinian are a poor excuse for the showing...
You miss one key point. The People thought Hamas was going to help the people, not become the government they have. They promised so many social programs like our democrats do. Hamas learned the politics of the USA well, and duped the voters.
I bring up this example for a reason. al-Bashir's government does the exact same thing. They label the rebel fighters terrorists, and then they use their airforce to bomb tiny villages in Darfur in order to stop "terrorist attacks." Since there aren't too many rebel fighters to begin with, it's obvious nonsense to blame poor people in some Darfurian village that generally don't know what the violence is about, but that's the logic of the Sudanese government.Hmm. The comparison reveals more about your own commitments IMO than it does about the Israel/Palestinian conflict. The current Israeli attack on Gaza is violent and bloody, but it beggars credibility to compare it to the systematic depopulation of Darfur.
If you put the two cases side by side, they are almost mirror images of each other in terms of tactics, government rhetoric, and proportionality of retaliation.
You sound a little racist yourself there Aggie.
And you have never been to Palestine so stop making these bull totalizing claims. There are desperate, poor, miserable people living in Gaza and some of them do hate the Israelis because of it. You're fooling yourself if you think Israelis aren't taught to hate Palestinians though, how else could an air force pilot drop a bomb on a school bus and smile in front of the television cameras like he is a hero?Israelis are not taught to hate the Palestinians from childhood. They are taught that the Palestinians teach their children to kill Jews from childhood. Damn them for pointing out facts.
Everyone knows who's going to win the 'fight', that's why the people of Palestine need to realize that terror attacks against Israel aren't going to get them anything other than their heads handed to them.
Yet the leaders of Hamas keep firing rockets into Israel, and Palestinians keep teaching their kids that they can have no higher calling in their life than to strap a bomb to their chest and go blow up a bunch of Jews.
Until the culture changes in the Palestinian territories (namely, that they decide they want peace instead of the extermination of the Jews), they deserve whatever beatdowns they get when they fire enough missiles (like recently) to piss off Israel.
Keep in mind that we're talking about "incoming" here, so heaven only knows.
I don't think you want to start justifying irredentism based upon past injustices.
Last edited by Extra Stout; 01-05-2009 at 08:23 AM. Reason: wrong word
Thats pretty re ed reasoning. I don't even think you need me to explain why.
I have never agreed with WC until now.
This is just another form of religious irredentism. If we followed your argument to its logical conclusion, then all persons of European descent would be obliged to vacate the Western Hemisphere, since Amerindians have a rich history in the Americans for centuries long before Europeans began to arrive and settle.
Europeans guilty about the culmination of anti-Semitism got together with American Dispensationalists to give the Zionists what they wanted. Since the British controlled the area at the time, they had the power to execute the par ion. The United Nations signed off on it. I don't know how much of the international consensus was real and how much was strongarmed by the great powers, but there it is.
No, the Europeans and Americans really didn't have a right to take some other peoples' land and give it to somebody else to solve a problem Europeans caused. Until the creation of Israel, Arabs were probably more tolerant of Jews than Europeans were (not saying much!).
We're 60 years into this now, and dismantling the Israeli state would be a greater injustice than creating it was in the first place. This issue gets a ton of attention because the conflict was ongoing, but it is not the only instance of forced relocation that went on in the world in the aftermath of World War II. Should Greeks and Armenians have the "right of return" into Turkey, for example?
I'm not saying the creation of Israel was the right or justifiable thing to do, but it's a moot point because it happened. The list of countries whose existence is not "right" or "justifiable" by our 21st-century definitions is quite long and includes the United States.
I really wish some people in this thread would stop generalizing like this. A good portion of the Israeli people want nothing but peace. Their government controls what the military does and tells them they're in danger. Then, when people start blowing up, the Israelis listen and elect people whom they think can make peace happen (even if it means military incursions). So all you people who generalize and say "jews" or "israel sucks" can suck my .
To want peace and work for it is one thing. It seems the militants on both sides have too much control. They've assasinated leaders, bombed citizens, held wars, and kept prisoners. This is the worst situation I can imagine and I too have to admit to apathy because the roller-coaster ride and paper peace has been with us for so long.
Moron of the day award goes to , survey says??????? ding ding ding we have a winner. you sir are not only a moron but are blind as a bat. Is it disgusting that kids and women are innocently dying at the hands of Israel? Sure it is, but Israel is defending their country, they are sick of minding their own business and having rockets raind down on them indiscriminantly. These rocket attacks are so commonplace that the media doesnt even bother reporting them any more, they don't kill as many, perhaps a few people here or a few people there but Israel is well within their rights to defend their country and eradicate the ers terrorizing their country with these rocket attacks. Palestine should be happy with the land Israel let them keep, back in the day when all this started, Palestinians sought out a fight with the jews, the jews kicked their ass and took some of their land, they got what they deserved.
I heard US Vice-president Cheney candidly admitting that the Israelis didn't bother informing -much less asking US permission- as far as the measures they were taking to solve the gaza "troubles".
Is that right.
Can we trust Mr. Cheney on this subject?
Interesting.
The annual $ 3-6 BILLIONS the US taxpayers are handing to Israel are not worth a phone call to the US taxpayers' representatives.
This more than anything should tell who is running the show, and what the Israelis think of the US taxpayers.
Good luck!!!!!
I'm sure the Israelis are more concerned with the safety of their own citizens than with how American taxpayers are gonna feel. But no, you're right. They should call every time they wanna blow their nose.
Yes, clearly a difference of opinion (even an informed one) makes me a blind old fool. At least I've been there and seen the problem with my own two eyes.
If you define "defending" as ensuring future violence, then by all means, Israel is doing a bang up job.
You don't think the Palestinians think the same damn thing? It's this stupid at ude that allows the cycle of violence to continue in the first place. You don't think there are little kids that are growing up to think they have a right to defend themselves by "eradicating the ers" that bombed their little brother or sisters school bus?
who's the moron again?
Go live there for a week, you'll be changing your tune.
And BTW, you're wrong. The Zionist movement began in the 1900s as a response to European anti-Semitism. The Jews that established Israel in 1947 had that intention the entire time.
Killing a thousand or so of the noisy natives is no more than blowing their nose.
So you are right.
The guy that foots the bill is ALWAYS right.
I don't think Israel has any option that averts future violence.
Earlier in the thread, you claimed that Palestinian rockets were being fired just at Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip. This is not true. You do know that Israel completely withdrew from Gaza and demolished all settlements back in 2005, right? They dragged the settlers out kicking and screaming.
The rockets are being fired into southern Israel. The city of Ashdod is a popular target. Something like 3,000 rockets and mortar s s have been fired into Israel. The only limiting factor is the inability of Hamas to get a steady supply of ammunition.
Israeli doves had said that Israel let the Palestinians govern themselves without occupation, they might get along with the business of living rather than fighting. Israeli hawks said that if they pulled out of Gaza, it would just give Hamas and friends a stronghold to attack Israel. The hawks were proven correct.
You're right, Israel pulled out of settlements in Gaza, I was thinking of the settlements they still have in West Bank.
You wrong, however, if you think there is nothing Israel can do to stop future violence. Since the Israelis left in 2005 they have been halting the distribution of international aid in Gaza, they have ins uted the much debated blockade of Gaza that has cut off the limited economy that remained there, and they have supplied Fatah with weapons and instigated a civil war.
Israeli politicians use the most extreme wing of Hamas as a propaganda tool to avoid meaningful dialog. It's a stalling tactic that Israel uses to delay the ins ution of the two state system.
If Israel would make an actual commitment to improving the conditions in Gaza and negotiating with Hamas, the situation could get better there. There is also a UN peacekeeping resolution for the Palestinian territories which the Israeli state has refused to allow to operate.
The violence will continue until both sides are strong enough to let the extremists that would seek to derail the peace process win. Over responding to Hamas is exactly what the extremists wanted, and Israeli politicians are playing right into their hands. For what? Political posturing before the elections?
So should we consult China every time we attack sovereign nations?
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