Is there a God?

[Blake]

Certainly the one who claims they have proven such, should prove what they claimed they have proven, no?

who here has claimed that they have proof that Jesus is for sure not the Son of God?

[BacktoBasics]

Furthermore why can't we just co-exist? Is this en y so self-concious that its relegated itself to destruction when everything living doesn't worship it. Why does he need worship....if we already know he's the creator can't we all just be happy?

Your Christians purest evil and purest good are nothing more than an instance in a mirror. They're identical.

[BacktoBasics]

who here has claimed that they have proof that Jesus is for sure not the Son of God?

There are a number of people in this thread that feel there is enough proof that Jesus wasn't real.

I'm not going to start on the "god" discussion again.

[Blake]

It just doesn't make sense.

The creator. The en y that is the epitome of all that is good or perfect. Right...God represents all that is good and perfect? This en y instead of loving everything it creates only loves the ones who follow his word thats been handed down amist half truths and destruction.

This is like a man telling his kids that he won't love all of them but only the ones who see things his way and follow him word for word.

See I can be a good person. I can live by the moral standard but choose to not worship at all. This doesn't mean I'm a bad person but means I utilized the abilities he gave me to do as I see morally fit. So even though I live by the exact code or moral I don't cut it.

So this man would kill his own children even if they were morally good. All because they didn't worship the ground he walked on.

Kneel before me or be stricken with death.

Thats not love. Thats not good. Its disgusting. Shameful...so horrible that even flawed man holds himself to a higher standard.

It amazes me how people can preach what good God is without realizing that if the man rises again he will be the single most destructive thing we have ever seen. I wouldn't be suprised if his own people turned against him for killing their loved ones while flexing his power.

the other tenet of Christianity that I can't wrap my head around is that a person that goes out and lives a good selfless life of doing nothing but volunteer work helping those less fortunate that him/herself will go to if he/she is a non believer........

yet a serial killer on death row that raped his victims first will go to Heaven if he repents and asks Jesus to come into his heart at the last second.......if he is truly sincere.....

[Blake]

There are a number of people in this thread that feel there is enough proof that Jesus wasn't real.

well ok.......I guess they should provide the proof then.

[BacktoBasics]

well ok.......I guess they should provide the proof then.

Where is the vomiting rolleyes emoticon when I need it.

I'm not starting again but a few of us have provided substantial proof of an alternate source for the creation of Christianity and Jesus in this thread.

[baseline bum]

yet a serial killer on death row that raped his victims first will go to Heaven if he repents and asks Jesus to come into his heart at the last second.......if he is truly sincere.....

God has sympathy for his own kind?

[Blake]

Where is the vomiting rolleyes emoticon when I need it.

I'm not starting again but a few of us have provided substantial proof of an alternate source for the creation of Christianity and Jesus in this thread.

Prove it.

j/k

I'm not digging thru 37 pages to find it so I'll take your word on it.

[Blake]

God has sympathy for his own kind?

apparently so.

I guess the serial killer will be sitting on the cloud eating popcorn next to angelluv.

[I Love Me Some Me]

It just doesn't make sense.

The creator. The en y that is the epitome of all that is good or perfect. Right...God represents all that is good and perfect? This en y instead of loving everything it creates only loves the ones who follow his word thats been handed down amist half truths and destruction.

This is like a man telling his kids that he won't love all of them but only the ones who see things his way and follow him word for word.

See I can be a good person. I can live by the moral standard but choose to not worship at all. This doesn't mean I'm a bad person but means I utilized the abilities he gave me to do as I see morally fit. So even though I live by the exact code or moral I don't cut it.

So this man would kill his own children even if they were morally good. All because they didn't worship the ground he walked on.

Kneel before me or be stricken with death.

Thats not love. Thats not good. Its disgusting. Shameful...so horrible that even flawed man holds himself to a higher standard.

It amazes me how people can preach what good God is without realizing that if the man rises again he will be the single most destructive thing we have ever seen. I wouldn't be suprised if his own people turned against him for killing their loved ones while flexing his power.

I know what I'm about to answer won't be emotionally satisfying to a lot of people (including believers). Especially for those who deny that God kills (in spite of what they read in their Bibles about the firstborn in Egypt, and Sodom and Gomorra). Everyone was indiscriminately destroyed...same thing with the Flood of Noah. It's not just Old Testament either...Revelations tells us that God will pass judgement on the world once again.

The question is, really, what gives God the right? And the answer is, since He gave it, He can take it away. That just goes with the territory of being God. He created it all, it all belongs to Him. He needs no further justification because He is not compelled by any law higher than Himself. It's his prerogative to take life, and it's also his prerogative the manner in which He takes it.

But, what about innocents and women and children? Them too...and this really appeals to me on an emotional level, but I find another aspect to keep in mind. God not only deals with people as individuals, but as groups. When the nation of Israel is doing well as a nation (in His eyes...right by God, if you will), He prospers the whole nation. On the flip side, if the nation is corrupt, then God judges the whole nation. This isn't foreign to us as Americans, as we watch our President wage a war in Iraq...the President and Congress made the decision, but the people are the ones at war. My point is, we are all suffering alike in the process.

But ultimately, as B2B is asking, the question is "If God were really good, how could He do such things?" And what you're looking at is all the death and destruction you see that God can do. But, looking at the same record (Old and New Testaments), you'll find that God IS good. He continually demonstrates not just his goodness, but his patience and forbearance for those that consistently rebel against Him, even though he's cared for them.

When we were kids, we learned that our parents acted in ways we didn't understand. We didn't think their decisions were fair. But later in life, we learned that our parents had insight and information unavailable to us that influenced their decisions. Eventually we figured out (for the most part) that Mom and Dad were acting in our best interests, even though we didn't see it at the time. So, the possibility exists that maybe God just knows a few more things than we do.

Even if none of that "learning as we grow" mumbo jumbo doesn't work for you...He is still the creator of life, and He still has the right to take life according to His own judgement.

[MiamiHeat]

Christians will make up all sorts of crap in defense of their boogieman.

My neighbor is a better person than God is

anyway, I really am not going to involve myself in this ty discussion. When you stray away from a factual debate, Christians can come up with all sorts of dumbass answers and philosophy.

You will never get anywhere and the end result is going to be "Agree to disagree" that God shouldn't be a jealous vindictive and destructive prick.

[atxrocker]

I know what I'm about to answer won't be emotionally satisfying to a lot of people (including believers). Especially for those who deny that God kills (in spite of what they read in their Bibles about the firstborn in Egypt, and Sodom and Gomorra). Everyone was indiscriminately destroyed...same thing with the Flood of Noah. It's not just Old Testament either...Revelations tells us that God will pass judgement on the world once again.

The question is, really, what gives God the right? And the answer is, since He gave it, He can take it away. That just goes with the territory of being God. He created it all, it all belongs to Him. He needs no further justification because He is not compelled by any law higher than Himself. It's his prerogative to take life, and it's also his prerogative the manner in which He takes it.

But, what about innocents and women and children? Them too...and this really appeals to me on an emotional level, but I find another aspect to keep in mind. God not only deals with people as individuals, but as groups. When the nation of Israel is doing well as a nation (in His eyes...right by God, if you will), He prospers the whole nation. On the flip side, if the nation is corrupt, then God judges the whole nation. This isn't foreign to us as Americans, as we watch our President wage a war in Iraq...the President and Congress made the decision, but the people are the ones at war. My point is, we are all suffering alike in the process.

But ultimately, as B2B is asking, the question is "If God were really good, how could He do such things?" And what you're looking at is all the death and destruction you see that God can do. But, looking at the same record (Old and New Testaments), you'll find that God IS good. He continually demonstrates not just his goodness, but his patience and forbearance for those that consistently rebel against Him, even though he's cared for them.

When we were kids, we learned that our parents acted in ways we didn't understand. We didn't think their decisions were fair. But later in life, we learned that our parents had insight and information unavailable to us that influenced their decisions. Eventually we figured out (for the most part) that Mom and Dad were acting in our best interests, even though we didn't see it at the time. So, the possibility exists that maybe God just knows a few more things than we do.

Even if none of that "learning as we grow" mumbo jumbo doesn't work for you...He is still the creator of life, and He still has the right to take life according to His own judgement.

translation: because he can>?????? wow, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[BacktoBasics]

I know what I'm about to answer won't be emotionally satisfying to a lot of people (including believers). Especially for those who deny that God kills (in spite of what they read in their Bibles about the firstborn in Egypt, and Sodom and Gomorra). Everyone was indiscriminately destroyed...same thing with the Flood of Noah. It's not just Old Testament either...Revelations tells us that God will pass judgement on the world once again.

The question is, really, what gives God the right? And the answer is, since He gave it, He can take it away. That just goes with the territory of being God. He created it all, it all belongs to Him. He needs no further justification because He is not compelled by any law higher than Himself. It's his prerogative to take life, and it's also his prerogative the manner in which He takes it.

But, what about innocents and women and children? Them too...and this really appeals to me on an emotional level, but I find another aspect to keep in mind. God not only deals with people as individuals, but as groups. When the nation of Israel is doing well as a nation (in His eyes...right by God, if you will), He prospers the whole nation. On the flip side, if the nation is corrupt, then God judges the whole nation. This isn't foreign to us as Americans, as we watch our President wage a war in Iraq...the President and Congress made the decision, but the people are the ones at war. My point is, we are all suffering alike in the process.

But ultimately, as B2B is asking, the question is "If God were really good, how could He do such things?" And what you're looking at is all the death and destruction you see that God can do. But, looking at the same record (Old and New Testaments), you'll find that God IS good. He continually demonstrates not just his goodness, but his patience and forbearance for those that consistently rebel against Him, even though he's cared for them.

When we were kids, we learned that our parents acted in ways we didn't understand. We didn't think their decisions were fair. But later in life, we learned that our parents had insight and information unavailable to us that influenced their decisions. Eventually we figured out (for the most part) that Mom and Dad were acting in our best interests, even though we didn't see it at the time. So, the possibility exists that maybe God just knows a few more things than we do.

Even if none of that "learning as we grow" mumbo jumbo doesn't work for you...He is still the creator of life, and He still has the right to take life according to His own judgement.

Nothing noble about a grown child playing a game of Army men with living breathing creatures only to throw a fit when the game doesn't go according to plan.

Being a creator doesn't equate to being the destructor. Thats just not morally satifying. Can a mother or father kill their children? No. Law or no law they still don't or shouldn't have a right to do such.

Sounds like God is just one big baby and when the game doesn't go well he just flexes his ability to hit the reset button.

You Christians should be disgusted by the fact that he can't even live up to his own moral code.

[BacktoBasics]

Christians will make up all sorts of crap in defense of their boogieman.

My neighbor is a better person than God is

anyway, I really am not going to involve myself in this ty discussion. When you stray away from a factual debate, Christians can come up with all sorts of dumbass answers and philosophy.

You will never get anywhere and the end result is going to be "Agree to disagree" that God shouldn't be a jealous vindictive and destructive prick.

I'll take the blame here. I got bored and just felt like insulting their precious god.

[Blake]

I know what I'm about to answer won't be emotionally satisfying to a lot of people (including believers). Especially for those who deny that God kills (in spite of what they read in their Bibles about the firstborn in Egypt, and Sodom and Gomorra). Everyone was indiscriminately destroyed...same thing with the Flood of Noah. It's not just Old Testament either...Revelations tells us that God will pass judgement on the world once again.

The question is, really, what gives God the right? And the answer is, since He gave it, He can take it away. That just goes with the territory of being God. He created it all, it all belongs to Him. He needs no further justification because He is not compelled by any law higher than Himself. It's his prerogative to take life, and it's also his prerogative the manner in which He takes it.

But, what about innocents and women and children? Them too...and this really appeals to me on an emotional level, but I find another aspect to keep in mind. God not only deals with people as individuals, but as groups. When the nation of Israel is doing well as a nation (in His eyes...right by God, if you will), He prospers the whole nation. On the flip side, if the nation is corrupt, then God judges the whole nation. This isn't foreign to us as Americans, as we watch our President wage a war in Iraq...the President and Congress made the decision, but the people are the ones at war. My point is, we are all suffering alike in the process.

But ultimately, as B2B is asking, the question is "If God were really good, how could He do such things?" And what you're looking at is all the death and destruction you see that God can do. But, looking at the same record (Old and New Testaments), you'll find that God IS good. He continually demonstrates not just his goodness, but his patience and forbearance for those that consistently rebel against Him, even though he's cared for them.

When we were kids, we learned that our parents acted in ways we didn't understand. We didn't think their decisions were fair. But later in life, we learned that our parents had insight and information unavailable to us that influenced their decisions. Eventually we figured out (for the most part) that Mom and Dad were acting in our best interests, even though we didn't see it at the time. So, the possibility exists that maybe God just knows a few more things than we do.

Even if none of that "learning as we grow" mumbo jumbo doesn't work for you...He is still the creator of life, and He still has the right to take life according to His own judgement.

so what you are saying is that God makes the law, but is above His own law.

'Thou shalt not kill' only applies to human/human relations.

Let me know when it's ok for mom and dad to indiscriminately kill all their kids because one of them is a bad egg.

[Winehole23]

A man coming down from the sky to kill billions of people who refused to follow him blindly. I can't seem to tell the difference between your god and your devil.

Reread the Book of Job. God and Satan make a bet at the beginning.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Reread the Book of Job. God and Satan make a bet at the beginning.

Oh, so it's like Trading Places?

Love that movie.

[baseline bum]

The question is, really, what gives God the right? And the answer is, since He gave it, He can take it away. That just goes with the territory of being God. He created it all, it all belongs to Him.
...
Even if none of that "learning as we grow" mumbo jumbo doesn't work for you...He is still the creator of life, and He still has the right to take life according to His own judgement.

So then abortion is justified, because the parents created the child, and can take it away when they see fit.

[baseline bum]

Nothing noble about a grown child playing a game of Army men with living breathing creatures only to throw a fit when the game doesn't go according to plan.

Being a creator doesn't equate to being the destructor. Thats just not morally satifying. Can a mother or father kill their children? No. Law or no law they still don't or shouldn't have a right to do such.

Sounds like God is just one big baby and when the game doesn't go well he just flexes his ability to hit the reset button.

You Christians should be disgusted by the fact that he can't even live up to his own moral code.

God's an underachiever. We really got jipped here.

[johnsmith]

I stopped reading this thread at about page 19. Anyone answer the question yet?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Maybe was the answer.

[baseline bum]

Maybe was the answer.

No, it was possibly damn you.

[CuckingFunt]

I stopped reading this thread at about page 19. Anyone answer the question yet?

Yep.

With irrefutable proof.

You missed it, though.

[BacktoBasics]

irrefutable proof.

We all know that Christians don't recognize that term.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

No, it was possibly damn you.

Prove it.

You can't, can you?