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Be patient man. Hill's a friggin Rookie! Manu is undervalued right now because of his health. If the right trade is there, fine. But not for the sake of Hill's development...that will come with time.
Just another iteration of the tired old story rascal brings to the forum.
He has been wanting to trade Manu since 2004, despite the fact that if his wished would've been granted by the FO, the SPurs would have one (and possibly two) less rings.
Be patient man. Hill's a friggin Rookie! Manu is undervalued right now because of his health. If the right trade is there, fine. But not for the sake of Hill's development...that will come with time.
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Its tough..Manu really is the man. He chip in so many points Spurs almost always rely on him for offense when Tony and Duncan on the bench. The only trade I think is worth it is Chris Bosh, or as I really hate to say it: ing Amare. But I think Spurs will never trade Manu.
i agree..but who do u think will be an equal value for Manu? really tough one right
Manu and scrubs would not get you Bosh or Amare. Those guys have more value.
It won't come with sporatic minutes stuck as a backup to Parker.
Well, it's too early to tell, but he very well may have that potential.
He can shoot from outside. He can penetrate. He is a "superior defender" as Pop put it. His long arms allow him to help out on the glass more than the average point guard.
And he obviously has a good mental make-up if he can come right into the league from some school no one has ever heard of, and instantly look like he belongs. So it certainly appears that the tools are there.
Eventually, Hill will probably split his time between playing the back-up point and shooting guard. Hill has enough size (again... long arms, which make him - for all intents and purposes - taller than the 6'2 he's listed at) to guard most shooting guards in the league.
Splitting his time between those 2 roles off the bench will work just fine. As Manu has proven, you don't have to be a starter to be a star.
I don't follow your logic on trading Manu. Trading Ginobili right now would be asinine. You're not going to get anything in return for Manu that would give you a better chance to win now. And as long as Tim Duncan is still on top of his game, the Spurs should do all they can to win NOW.
Besides, there are plenty of minutes for Hill as he develops and earns them. If Hill takes anyone's 2-guard minutes this year or next, it's going to be Finley's minutes that he steals.
Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he does become an all-star within a few years.
I wish we would could trade rascal.
Right now I would say Camby is about the best you could get for Manu.
As I just mentioned in my last post... there will be plenty of minutes for Hill as he develops and earns them. He has enough size (coupled with long arms) to play the 2-guard position.
So eventually, he'll likely split his time between the backup point and shooting guard. He'll get his minutes in direct proportion to his development as a player. It'll come. Give him a little time.
So very true.
Agree with most of what you wrote but it is more asinine to believe Bonner Thomas and Oberto as a front line with Duncan will be enough to get out of the west.
Isn't Camby eligible for free agency soon? There's no way you'd even consider dealing someone like Manu for Camby when he may only be a rental.
And let's not forget what a healthy Manu looks like in big game situations. He's one of those rare players who can elevate his play in big situations and take over a game. And he does so many things that don't show up on a stat sheet. I don't think Camby would be equal value under any cir stances.
I would love to have Camby though. If the Spurs could get Camby for Mihimini (or whatever his name is), the rights to Splitter, Kurt Thomas, and a draft pick or two... I'd be all for it. That would make this team beyond sick defensively.
He should primarily play the 2 guard position. You said it yourself he is good enough to play the 2 and has the potential to be a star so that makes Manu as the most logical trade bait to get a quality center.
Oberto is one of those guys whose value is impossible to quantify. That's not to overstate his value... that's just to say that his worth doesn't show up on a stat sheet, and that he's a lot more valuable than it may seem on the surface.
Bonner is helps on the glass, knocks down 3's, and pulls one of the opposing team's big men away from the basket, which gives Timmy room to work and Tony/Manu room to penetrate. Bonner is valuable.
The downside is that the Spurs interior defense isn't what it was when they had two 7-footers patrolling the paint at the same time. The Spurs are still one of the best defensive teams in the NBA (or will be by the time the playoffs roll around... just like every year). But it is true that they're not quite the defensive beast they were a couple years back.
Still... it puzzles me how people are so quick to point out that one area where they're not as strong, and hold it up as an insurmountable flaw.
Are the Lakers a perfect team? Is there absolutely no facet of their team with room for improvement???
The Spurs are still one of the best defensive teams in the game. They can penetrate with Parker and Ginobili. They can knock down shots as well as (or better than) any team in the league. And they still have one of the best post players in the game in TD.
To say it's asinine to think the Spurs could come out of the west with what they have now is, well... asinine.
The Spurs have no assurances of anything. I can't remember ever seeing so many championship caliber and near-championship caliber teams in the league at the same time. But the Spurs will have as strong a chance as anyone when they start firing on all cylinders (which they're not doing yet).
*sigh* Maybe in a few years.
The problem is that Manu is not "trade bait". He's part of the very heart and soul of the team. In big moments of big games, Manu is one of the best players in the game. And the heart and energy he brings to the floor is hard to quantify. Manu is central to everything the Spurs do right now. You want to cut off an arm to add a leg.
And when you fundamentally alter the makeup of a team, it doesn't always work out quite the way you plan it (just ask Steve Kerry in Phoenix).
Because of Duncan's style of play... as Pat Reily said last year, Tim is likely to have a career arch similar to guys like Karl Malone and Kareem, both of whom averaged 20 ppg and nearly 10 boards per game all the way through their 30's. You've likely got at least 5 more years with Duncan as a faily dominant big man. Tony's only 26, and now you've got George Hill, and young shooters like Bonner and Mason.
There is time to put together several more legitimate championship runs before the Duncan era comes to a close. The Spurs may have an opportunity to improve themselves at the center position this summer without having to give someone like Manu to do it.
And again, I think the Spurs absolutely have a chance to win it all just as they are now.
Why would the Clippers want any of those guys when they need a good 2 guard?
Sure everyone wants to trade scrubs for quality bigs but that is not reality. It would take Manu to get Camby. Thats a trade that helps both teams.
I know its hard for Spur fans to accept but thats a trade that helps both teams. A front line of Duncan Bonner, Thomas and oberto will not get past the Lakers.
Your looking at the past when you write what Manu has done in the past.
How about what he will do in the future? Will the spurs get past the lakers with a slow soft frontline. Oberto who tips balls out and can't rebound, thomas who was too slow to even play many minutes against the lakers last year and Bonner who is nothing more than a backup quality perimeter shooting big.
You get players on the team who will help you win in the future not what they did in the past. Manu's window is closing fast. The spurs will not win with a weak front line, relying on Manu and scoring from the backcourt with only Duncan being any type of defensive presence on the inside with no other easy low post scoring option on the team.
Duncan will be doubled teamed and the spurs will rely on the 3 point shot. That does not bode well for success in the playoffs.
Another Spurs fan wanting to trade Manu!!!!
Yikes!!!
Again, Manu is the one who stirs the Spurs drink!! He is the X-Factor and without him the Spurs won't a le!
He just came off of ankle surgery. Spurs fans should give him a chance to get fully healthy..before you want to trade him!!!
And I do believe that George has a potential to be an all-star in the future. But he still has a lot of developing to do.
Last edited by MarHill; 01-07-2009 at 11:26 PM.
Rascal wants to trade Manu?? Seriously? when did this happen??
Camby for Manu straight up. Could work. I went to check Marcus' numbers and they're impressive. And it's possible 'cause the Clippers already have Kaman and Randolph. If Manu doesn't get his real level back, I would do it.
The problem I have with this trade are the following:
-Camby's age: He's 34. He doesn't have too much left in the tank.
-Camby's "fragility": He's known for getting injured quite often and quite bad.
-Recent history of bigs in SA (outside Duncan): Everytime we think that we bring a quality big man to help Duncan inside. That player starts sucking in a Spurs uniform. Rasho, Mohamed, Elson, Oberto, some more than others but all of them failed to meet the expectations.
-And the biggest reason of all: Manu starting to play like Manu again: If we trade him and he starts playing like the Manu we all know and love I'd shoot myself, simple as that.
This thread has fallen farther and farther into failuredom.
This is ing stupid! Why would the Spurs trade Manu when PoP himself has gone on record saying the Spurs can't win a le without him? Now some of you know it alls want to trade him for camby!? LOL...You ing internet GMs are ing laughable!!!
First you were trading Bonner and Vaughn...now Manu? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL You guys are a joke!!! LLLLLLLLLLLLLLlooooooooooooolLLLLLLLOOLLlllllllol
WOW, just another dumb azz thread. Why do some Spurs fans hate Manu and Some Parker? What are they just stupid as ???? Hill is what 6'1, or so? Yeah he can replace Manu at the 2!!!!!!!! I tell you he can!!!!!!! Get the outta here.
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