Israel wiping the floor with Palestine

[Winehole23]

Breaking...Three hour truce?

[nkdlunch]

I think we all know the Palestinians' reason for the attacks right? It's the oppression put on them by the Israelis. Some of you make it seem like the sole reason for the Palestinian attacks on Israel is because "they hate them and want to see them wiped off". But some are ignoring the fact that the Palestinian people are oppressed in many ways by the powerful Israeli goverment.

Yeah these attacks on Israel are pretty ing violent but guess what, the Israeli everyday oppression is pretty ed up too.

this is what I think Israelis are ignoring on purpose. They just say "Palestinians are attacking us" but why do you think? Its not like Israelis treat them like regular human beings out there.

[Winehole23]

It's already over.


.

[DarrinS]

I think we all know the Palestinians' reason for the attacks right? It's the oppression put on them by the Israelis.

WRONG.


There are many "oppressed" people in the world that don't launch random rocket attacks into populated areas and don't send their kids into crowded areas with the sole purpose of blowing themselves up and killing as many innocent bystanders as possible.

WTF about jihad don't you get?

[temujin]

You know, ignorance is a terrible quality.

You probably live out of it.

[Gerryatrics]

Evidence for that?

Of the 688 Palestinians killed since Dec. 27, some 350 were civilians, among them 130 children, according to Palestinian officials.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090107/...l_palestinians

Now those are the Palestinian figures. I've read another article that stated that since the ground invasion began, the Palestinians have only been adding civilian casualties to that figure.

At least 10 Hamas and Islamic Jihad gunmen were killed in other Gaza battles early Tuesday, the IDF said, claiming that soldiers had killed close to 150 Hamas gunmen since the ground operation was launched on Saturday.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

From the Israeli side.

U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the death toll was estimated at 320-390 and the number of injured at 1,500-1,900. Between 20 percent and 25 percent of the dead are either women or children, said Karen Abu Zayd, U.N. Relief and Works Agency commissioner.

Hamas says some 200 uniformed members of its security forces have been killed, and the U.N. says at least 60 Palestinian civilians have died.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...PRq3gD95E1N0O1

Finally, some older numbers from the U.N. While it is possible that every person killed in the operation since then has been an innocent civilian, it seems a bit unlikely.

I don't know what the real numbers are, I don't think anyone does. That's why I left my statement open ended. But that's what has been reported so far. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

[Shastafarian]

You probably live out of it.

Are you saying I live outside of ignorance? Thanks.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Discussing things like this is what the political forum is all about. Having said that, I think its safe to say, that given the quality of the posts in this thread, most people here (myself included) don't have a ing clue about what is going on there. The saddest part is that a lot of you are unaware of how ing ignorant we all are in regards to this conflict. Anyone posting anything other than sympathy for those suffering over there is talking straight out of their ass! ...which I might add, is situated safely and comfortably a few thousand miles from where these people are dying.

Nothing against debating, really. I'd just hate to think someone might come in here and be duped into believing anyone in this thread has a ing clue about what they are talking about.

[Shastafarian]

I've been to Israel twice and my brother lives there. I know at least 5 other people who currently live there. I still realize I don't know half of what's going on over there.

[Nbadan]

So, for the record, Israel broke the truce, and broke it again and again. And Israel kept the population of Gaza on the brink of starvation for 18 months.

To even consider whether or not there is a humanitarian crisis now in Gaza, which Israeli politicians deny, is ludicrous. There has been a humanitarian crisis in Gaza for a year-and-a-half.

The slow reaction of the international community should not come as a surprise, but is nevertheless appalling.

These, one would hope, are the violent death throes of the neocons, under whose iron-fist ideology the world, in particular this part of the world, has suffered dramatically for the past eight years. That the neocons in Washington should choose to lash out through their proxy in Israel is sad and cowardly, but entirely par for the course.

And to all those who accepted Israel’s explanation that for eight years Israelis have lived in terror of rocket attacks, consider this: this terrifying rocket menace, which started in 2001 and was first fired mostly at the illegal settlements and military targets inside Gaza, has killed 18 Israelis. That is, 18 in eight years.

This may certainly be too many. But if that is too many, what is nearly 700 dead in 12 days? What it is not is self-defence, especially in the context of 41 years of illegal, belligerent military occupation?

What is this, if not a war crime on the back of a war crime?

Jordan Times

[Nbadan]

[Shastafarian]

I wonder what the Jordanian Times would have Israel do. Let them continue to rocket AND mortar attacks? Hope they don't get more sophisticated arms? Those sound awesome to me.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Jordan Times

Heh. Guess the blog I read was right for a change. Arguably right, anyways.

Israel is a piece of but so is Hamas. There is no right and wrong here. All we can hope for is one side to get irreparably crushed, so we can have something like progress.

[RandomGuy]

I think we all know the Palestinians' reason for the attacks right? It's the oppression put on them by the Israelis.

WRONG.


There are many "oppressed" people in the world that don't launch random rocket attacks into populated areas and don't send their kids into crowded areas with the sole purpose of blowing themselves up and killing as many innocent bystanders as possible.

WTF about jihad don't you get?

More black/white useless oversimplification.

Are all Palestinians willing to kill so indescriminantly?

[temujin]

I've been to Israel twice and my brother lives there. I know at least 5 other people who currently live there. I still realize I don't know half of what's going on over there.

Enough said.

You were technically right about my "ignorance": I should have known this from post 3 on.

So, you are not footing the bill, you are actually cashing in.
You are not obeying to orders, you are giving them.

Well done, but play it down: ubris is just around the corner.

[nkdlunch]

WRONG.


There are many "oppressed" people in the world that don't launch random rocket attacks into populated areas and don't send their kids into crowded areas with the sole purpose of blowing themselves up and killing as many innocent bystanders as possible.

ppl are different around the world. Arabs have been warriors since the ancient times. you get violence when you oppress warring people. Look at the Afghans, same thing, warring ppl. not every ppl in the world are like this.

WTF about jihad don't you get?

jihad? that is adopted by extremists. similar to skinheads adopting beleifs of killing all black ppl

[bresilhac]

So sook, what is the solution to the problem?

I say that the complete and total eradication of Israel is the only thing that will bring lasting peace to that tortured region. What's the alternative, to continue to have the entire population of Gaza enslaved as they are now in perpetuity? That approach will only foster more and more angry violence and loathing of Israel. But if there were no Israel there would be no problem to begin with. So the beginning of the problem in that region was the stupid, ill-conceived mandate that created that worthless mistake of a nation, Israel. Had the Palestinians not had their land and property stolen from them initially there would now be peace.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I say that the complete and total eradication of Israel is the only thing that will bring lasting peace to that tortured region. What's the alternative, to continue to have the entire population of Gaza enslaved as they are now in perpetuity? That approach will only foster more and more angry violence and loathing of Israel. But if there were no Israel there would be no problem to begin with. So the beginning of the problem in that region was the stupid, ill-conceived mandate that created that worthless mistake of a nation, Israel. Had the Palestinians not had their land and property stolen from them initially there would now be peace.

so you would trade one genocide for another? Why don't you take your ignorant racist ass somewhere else

[DarrinS]

The only thing I can conclude from this thread is that moral equivalence is a mental disorder.

[DarrinS]

By the way, can anyone give me examples of any country in the Arab world admitting Palestinian refugees?

[Shastafarian]

so you would trade one genocide for another? Why don't you take your ignorant racist ass somewhere else

I would assume he just means displacing the millions of people who live in Israel. Seems plausible.

[Cry Havoc]

I say that the complete and total eradication of Israel is the only thing that will bring lasting peace to that tortured region. What's the alternative, to continue to have the entire population of Gaza enslaved as they are now in perpetuity? That approach will only foster more and more angry violence and loathing of Israel. But if there were no Israel there would be no problem to begin with. So the beginning of the problem in that region was the stupid, ill-conceived mandate that created that worthless mistake of a nation, Israel. Had the Palestinians not had their land and property stolen from them initially there would now be peace.

- Thus sayeth the Hamas.

[bresilhac]

so you would trade one genocide for another? Why don't you take your ignorant racist ass somewhere else

Yeah sure stupid ass. And the Israelis aren't racist at all right? Go to .

[Shastafarian]

Yeah sure stupid ass. And the Israelis aren't racist at all right? Go to .

Which Israelis Mr. Generalization?

[Winehole23]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0800048&s_pos=
As U.S. Abstains, U.N. Security Council Calls for Cease-Fire









By Griff Witte and Colum Lynch


Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, January 9, 2009; Page A14



JERUSALEM, Jan. 8-- The U.N. Security Council on Thursday adopted a resolution calling for a cease-fire in the Gaza Strip, hours after the United Nations announced it would suspend humanitarian aid deliveries in the territory, citing Israeli attacks on its facilities and personnel.

• 100 Survivors Rescued in Gaza From Ruins Blocked by Israelis
• U.N. Security Council Calls for Cease-Fire; U.S. Abstains
• Hamas Pulling Back Into Crowded Cities, Beckoning Israelis
• Rocket Attack Threatens Israel's Other Front
• Full Coverage
• Backgrounder: CFR Backgrounder: Hamas
• Israel Renews Fighting in Gaza Strip
• Transcript: Middle East: Israel Halts Operations To Allow Aid Shipments
• Israel's Forces in Gaza

The 15-nation council adopted the resolution by a vote of 14 to 0. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice cast the sole abstention but said the United States supports the text and objectives of the resolution.
The resolution demands an "immediate, durable and fully respected cease-fire, leading to the full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza," U.S. and Arab officials said. It marked a sharp reversal by the Bush administration, which had refused to allow passage of a cease-fire resolution without binding assurances that Hamas would halt its rocket attacks against Israel.



Israeli officials, who vigorously opposed the passage of any U.N. resolution on the crisis, privately expressed reservations about the current text on the grounds that it failed to include a firm guarantee that Hamas would stop its rocket fire before Israel would have to halt its military operation, according to U.N. diplomats.



Israel's U.N. ambassador, Gabriela Shalev, did not say whether Israel would bring an immediate halt to its Gaza operation. But she said that Hamas bears responsibility for the situation and that any "durable" cease-fire requires "the total cessation of rocket fire and [arms] smuggling."

The resolution expresses "grave concern" over the "deepening humanitarian crisis" in Gaza and calls for more international aid and "unimpeded" distribution of food, fuel, medical treatment and other humanitarian assistance. The text makes no mention of Hamas's practice of launching missiles into Israel. Instead, it "condemns all violence and hostilities directed against civilians and all acts of terrorism."



After the vote, Rice said that the United States had abstained on the resolution because the council refused to allow a delay to permit an Egyptian-led mediation effort to broker a cease-fire. But, she said, "we decided that this resolution -- the text of which we support, the goals of which we support and the objectives of which we fully support -- should indeed be allowed to go forward."



The suspension of U.N. aid deliveries is likely to deepen the crisis in Gaza, where more than half of the territory's 1.5 million people live on food aid and where water, power, medical supplies and cooking gas are already in short supply. It also deepens a bitter standoff between the Israeli government, which continued to bombard Gaza with airstrikes Thursday, and humanitarian groups say Israel has made it impossible to distribute badly needed aid in the beleaguered territory.



"We are perfectly prepared to take responsible risks in this conflict zone," said John Ging, the U.N. Relief and Works Agency's top official in Gaza. But it is "totally and wholly unacceptable," he said, that Israeli forces are "firing at our workers."



Israel has denied the charge and says Hamas is responsible for obstructing aid.



Other aid organizations, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, said Thursday its officials would curtail their work in Gaza because of security concerns.



The Palestinian death toll stood at more than 760 Thursday, with more than 3,100 people injured, health officials in Gaza said. The United Nations has said a third or more are civilians.

Three Israeli soldiers were killed in fighting in Gaza on Thursday, bringing the total since the start of the ground operation to nine. Four Israelis have been killed by rockets since the offensive on Gaza began Dec. 27.



The U.N. decision came after a convoy of its vehicles was fired on Thursday by Israeli forces during a mission to recover the body of a U.N. worker who had been killed in a previous Israeli attack, according to UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness.



The incident occurred during a three-hour period in which Israel said it would pause its offensive to allow humanitarian supplies to be delivered. It followed the death Thursday morning of a U.N. driver who was shot despite Israeli assurances that it was safe to travel.



U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon condemned the attack on the U.N. convoy and said that "the inability of the U.N. to provide assistance in this worsening humanitarian crisis is unacceptable."



Gunness said that three U.N. workers had been killed by Israeli fire since Dec. 27 and that aid would not resume until "the Israeli army can guarantee the safety and security of U.N. personnel."



Gunness said that the locations of U.N. facilities and the movements of its workers are communicated to the military and that Israel was being reckless or was targeting aid workers. Earlier this week, 45 Palestinians died after Israeli forces fired on two schools the United Nations had opened to people seeking refuge from the fighting. Israel claims the schools were being used by gunmen, but the United Nations denies that.



Israeli military spokesman Ilan Tal, a reserve brigadier general, said that he was looking into the accusations but added that Israel had not targeted aid workers. Tal said Israel had facilitated aid to Gaza by holding its fire for three hours both Wednesday and Thursday.



"Our intention is to allow for any needed humanitarian aid to come in and to coordinate with all the international organizations," he said.
Tal accused Hamas of targeting humanitarian convoys for attack and then blaming Israel. He also said the group is hoarding food and other supplies.



Gaza residents said basic goods were not getting through.
"There is no food. Iwent to the market and all I could find were onions and lemons," said Um Adel Abu Nahil, a resident of the Shati refugee camp who ventured from her home during Thursday's pause. "I can't find milk. I can't find diapers. And we have no water. It's awful."



About 500,000 people in Gaza are believed to be without running water, and the sewage system is on the verge of collapse because of a lack of electricity. Even before the war, Gaza had endured a near-total economic blockade for 18 months, which began after Hamas routed forces loyal to the rival Fatah party and seized power in 2007. The previous year, Hamas had won Palestinian legislative elections.


Despite a Supreme Court order, Israel has not allowed international journalists into Gaza since it began its offensive, with the exception of a BBC cameraman who was permitted to embed with Israeli troops.





Israel conquered Gaza in a 1967 war with Arab armies, and although it pulled its troops and settlers out in 2005, it remains the occupying power under international law. Sari Bashi of the Israeli human rights group Gisha, said that means Israel is legally responsible for the humanitarian needs of the population.



"The obligation is the Israeli army's. No one else's," she said.



The U.N. decision reflects rising anger and frustration among humanitarian workers in Gaza over the perceived hostility of the Israeli military toward their efforts. The Red Cross on Thursday protested Israel's "unacceptable" delays in letting rescue workers reach three buildings that had been hit by Israeli s ing.


An Israeli mediator was in Egypt Thursday, discussing possible cease-fire proposals with Egyptian authorities. Israel said on Wednesday that it was in "fundamental agreement" with a cease-fire plan offered by Egypt and France but that many details still need to be worked out.



In the meantime, Israel's offensive against Hamas continued with more than 40 airstrikes, including an intense bombardment of the southern part of the territory, near the border with Egypt. Hamas and its allies in Gaza fired at least 20 rockets Thursday into southern Israel. Earlier in the campaign, the daily number of rocket attacks was 40 or more.



There was also a brief exchange of fire Thursday morning across Israel's northern border with Lebanon. Several rockets were lobbed into Israeli territory, and the Israeli military responded with fire into southern Lebanon.



Although the exchange recalled the 2006 war between Israel and the Lebanon-based Hezbollah movement, Lebanese officials promptly condemned the fire from their side and said they were taking steps to patrol the area more closely. Several Palestinian refugee camps are located in southern Lebanon.



Hezbollah said it was not responsible for the rockets, which landed near the Israeli town of Nahariya.



"We regard this as an isolated event," said Tal, the Israel Defense Forces spokesman.



Also on Thursday, Israel reacted angrily to comments made by an aide to Pope Benedict XVI comparing Gaza to "a big concentration camp." Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said that Israel was "terribly dismayed" by the comments and that they reflected Hamas propaganda.