Mavs lose to the Kings.

[ElNono]

We'll see. Dirk is arguably a franchise player, while Parker seems like a classic second option. Whether Parker can close that gap in two years, we shall see.

This is where we don't agree. I think the Mavs want him to be (just like Memphis wanted Gasol to be), but I don't think it's panning out. And for the record, Tony is definitely not a franchise player.

[DPG21920]

We'll see. Dirk is arguably a franchise player, while Parker seems like a classic second option. Whether Parker can close that gap in two years, we shall see.

[Findog]

This is where we don't agree. I think the Mavs want him to be (just like Memphis wanted Gasol to be), but I don't think it's panning out. And for the record, Tony is definitely not a franchise player.

I've expounded on this before, but I think that right now there are only four true #1 options in the league: Bron, Timmy, Kobe and Wade. Then you have your second options, guys like Manu or TP, Josh Howard circa 2006. You can win a le if your best player is LeBron, Duncan, Kobe or Wade. You can win a le if your second-best player is Parker, Manu or 2006 Josh Howard. Dirk, on the other hand, strikes me as a 1.5 player: he's clearly better than a second option, but he's just not quite in that Bron/Tim/Kobe/Wade class. You can win a le with Dirk as your best player, but you would need somebody alongside almost as good. Dirk came up 2 wins short with Jason Terry and Josh as his sidekicks. Garnett and Pierce are 1.5's, which is why the Celtics were able to win a le.

[Johnny RIngo]

This is where we don't agree. I think the Mavs want him to be (just like Memphis wanted Gasol to be), but I don't think it's panning out. And for the record, Tony is definitely not a franchise player.

The Gasol comparison's unfair to Dirk. Gasol never did much in Memphis outside of one 50 win season while Dirk's lead his team to Finals and has had multiple 60 win seasons.

[Findog]

I think Chris Paul is a 1.5, and has a good chance to ascend to that 1 category.

[Ditty]

the only thing that made me happy all day yesterday

[ElNono]

I've expounded on this before, but I think that right now there are only four true #1 options in the league: Bron, Timmy, Kobe and Wade. Then you have your second options, guys like Manu or TP, Josh Howard circa 2006. You can win a le if your best player is LeBron, Duncan, Kobe or Wade. You can win a le if your second-best player is Parker, Manu or 2006 Josh Howard. Dirk, on the other hand, strikes me as a 1.5 player: he's clearly better than a second option, but he's just not quite in that Bron/Tim/Kobe/Wade class. You can win a le with Dirk as your best player, but you would need somebody alongside almost as good. Dirk came up 2 wins short with Jason Terry and Josh as his sidekicks. Garnett and Pierce are 1.5's, which is why the Celtics were able to win a le.

I agree. And JHo used to be playing at that 1.5 level back then. Which makes his current slump even more aggravating.

[ElNono]

The Gasol comparison's unfair to Dirk. Gasol never did much in Memphis outside of one 50 win season while Dirk's lead his team to Finals and has had multiple 60 win seasons.

I'm not comparing players, just roles assigned to them by their respective teams back then. I would actually argue that if Gasol had a player like JHo, playing at the level he was playing two years ago, plus a Stackhouse that used to play pretty well off the bench those days, Gasol would have had the 60+ wins seasons. Whould he have won a championship? Very doubtful.

[Brazil]

I've expounded on this before, but I think that right now there are only four true #1 options in the league: Bron, Timmy, Kobe and Wade. Then you have your second options, guys like Manu or TP, Josh Howard circa 2006. You can win a le if your best player is LeBron, Duncan, Kobe or Wade. You can win a le if your second-best player is Parker, Manu or 2006 Josh Howard. Dirk, on the other hand, strikes me as a 1.5 player: he's clearly better than a second option, but he's just not quite in that Bron/Tim/Kobe/Wade class. You can win a le with Dirk as your best player, but you would need somebody alongside almost as good. Dirk came up 2 wins short with Jason Terry and Josh as his sidekicks. Garnett and Pierce are 1.5's, which is why the Celtics were able to win a le.

I agree with that. You have to add CP3 like a 1,5. I'm a big TP homer but for the moment Dirk is a kind of 1,8 and TP a 1,5. Time will tell us if TP can be a franchise player but I'm honestly not sure, anyway we haven't a lot of PGs being a franchise player, nash ? cp3 ?
Now considering the ages, I wouldn't go for a dirk / tp trade.

For the rest I still think that the Mavs will make the PO.

[dirk4mvp]

I'm not comparing players, just roles assigned to them by their respective teams back then. I would actually argue that if Gasol had a player like JHo, playing at the level he was playing two years ago, plus a Stackhouse that used to play pretty well off the bench those days, Gasol would have had the 60+ wins seasons. Whould he have won a championship? Very doubtful.

People (not you in particular) can call Dirk weak minded all they want, but I'd bet a large sum of money that even with a J-Ho and Stack with him, that Gasol wouldn't eliminate his team's biggest rival on their floor or put 50 against the Suns to turn that series completely around in his team's favor.

[sonic21]

People (not you in particular) can call Dirk weak minded all they want, but I'd bet a large sum of money that even with a J-Ho and Stack with him, that Gasol wouldn't eliminate his team's biggest rival on their floor or put 50 against the Suns to turn that series completely around in his team's favor.

and gasol had a very good team in memphis
battier, williams, Miller, Posey, swift ....

i'm sure dirk would have won some playoffs game (unlike gasol)

[dirk4mvp]

and gasol had a very good team in memphis
battier, williams, Miller, Posey, swift ....

i'm sure dirk would have won some playoffs game (unlike gasol)

Gasol actually had a chance to win his first playoff game against Dallas, but Dirk hit a 3 with a few seconds left to send it to overtime (I remember it clear cause I was there )

[ElNono]

People (not you in particular) can call Dirk weak minded all they want, but I'd bet a large sum of money that even with a J-Ho and Stack with him, that Gasol wouldn't eliminate his team's biggest rival on their floor or put 50 against the Suns to turn that series completely around in his team's favor.

It's a completely different situation. Dallas had a great coach that had them on a mission. The team had an iden y, and the coach would make Dirk be the man. Gasol is a pretty darn good post player. His problem in Memphis was that until Gay came around, nobody could create his own shot (and this goes to answer the other post too), Mike Miller, Battier, Posey, Swift, etc they couldn't create a shot on their own even today. Hubie Brown makes a good TV commentator, but he had his work cut out for him while he was coaching there.
It's no surprise that with Phil as coach, a superstar to carry the load and good pieces around him, Gasol now looks like a superstar out there (prompting the ridiculous thread we saw on this very forum). On the other hand, what I've seen from Dirk since Carslile has come around, is delegation. He passes even when the going gets tough for the Mavs. I've seen quite a few games this season, and I see Jason Terry taking (and delivering, I should add) the tough shots out there most of the time. I think Avery forced Dirk to be the man out there, and live with the consequences, and I'm not sure Dirk really wants to be in that position.