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That has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. This post failed on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin.
Kobe has both, and hasn't done .
That has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. This post failed on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin.
My point is not that Kobe is close to MJ but haters on here glorify all of his acomplishments and discredit Kobe's bottom line is when it comes to guys I have seen in my life (not on tape) the best two by position:
PG 1.Magic 2.Isiah
SG 1.MJ 2.Kobe
SF 1.Bird 2.Nique (LBJ may/will soon be #1 Worthy was a close 3rd)
PF 1.Duncan 2.Barkley (malone and McHale close 3rd)
C 1.Kareem 2.HAkeem (Shaq close 3rd)
Now let me say this ...the biggest gap between the 1 and 2 slots are at SG and center but it does not diminish anyone on this list point is that I dont care that Mj is better than kobe but you guys that say he is the GOAT unless you are over 50 can not say that without a doubt ...
As for now ...
PG Paul
SG Kobe
SF Lebron
PF KG (even though he is a punks ass)
C Duncan (even though the Spurs lie and say he is a PF)
Wade looks good this year but he aint Kobe ...Dirk has an argument at PF and Yao at center does as well but this is the best 5 by position I would bump Paul for Wade though if we just count gaurds ...defense is better ...better finisher closer than Paul
You just proved my point and really owned yourself in this post. Have fun being a .
Whatever that point was to counter the argument that Kobe allowed Pierce to win a FINALS MVP ...
But you WOULD be good at judging failure being a MAVS fan in all!! LMAO
Let me break it down in simple terms for you ...
1.Pierce made the key plays down the stretch and LBJ did not great game but not a great close ...he lost to a BETTER team ...just as did Kobe and the Lakers ...that is why the Celts had HCA ...they were a better team and for THOSE series Pierce was the better closer over them both ...no doubt ...when Kobe has had the better team he closed out the Lakers wins as well...and if the CAVS are better than LBJ will do the same to the Celts. Dont forget the Celts have a great defense and 3 All-stars ...I think Gasol may have made 1 in his whole career even big Z has done that Wallace as well ....and Szerbiak I bleive
2. Choking in a Finals would be like losing with a 2-0 lead and a double digit lead in Game 3 (like the Mavs)
3. All of you that say Kobe has more help forget that was just half of last season ...befor that he had little and put up crazy numbers but couldnt beat Phoenix ...
Again I dont care if people say Mj is better because I agree ...my point is stats dont tell me that watching him win 6 of 8 les does ...but don't discount his help either Pippen, Rodman and Phil are all HOF caliber support in the playoffs the best team wins not the best player or DIrk would NEVER beat Tim in a playoff series ... or Pierce would not of beat Kobe or MJ ...dumbass!
Moron ...kobe hasn't done ...silly stuff like that is funny
3 rings and an MVP and a gold medal ...that ain ish?!
Back to the OP ...if you also count the gold medal game LBJ has not done well in his biggest 5 games of his career ...a 4 game FInals sweep and a now show in the gold medal round ....and I still think he has the chance to be great I dont think he will NEVER be the closer Kobe or MJ are ...but so far he aint that ....yet. Again Manu has proven he is more clutch with shots both here and internationally than LBJ ... so far.
I think you are the dumbass for thinking anyone here even began to infer that Pierce was a better player than Kobe.
We are talking about being the #1 option on his team. He hasn't accomplished any more than Lebron.
Again, fact is, the people here who constantly bring up the Kobe vs MJ/Lebron discussions are Kobe and Laker fans, not Lebron or Jordan fans.
LMAO insecure
if laker fans cannot convince a single soul after 10 pages in this thread, that KObe is as good as Jordan. it will never happen. give up homer, delusional lakerfans
That is the problem. He actually isn't the best player in his time.
Duncan & Shaq have that honour.
Again he isn't (atleast wasn't till recently) the most feared player, that again my friend was Shaq.
Ever wonder why after Jordan retired, people keep mentioning "since the Duncan era or even the Shaq era."
Again the multiple championships he won was mainly due to the fact that he had the most dominant player the NBA has ever seen.
Spurs 1999 Championship D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2008 Celtics D
i actually feel bad for real lakers fans, their entire fan base has been overrun by kobe groupies.
a real laker fan doesnt even consider kobe a top 5 laker all time. (wilt, kareem, west, magic, worthy, baylor, shaq, i'm sure i'm leaving someone else out). Is he a top 5 SG all time? i think so, but he still has a ways to go for the top spot. but like others have said- do you see jordan fans starting these threads? lebron fans? oscar robertson fans? no, it's always kobe fans.
kobe fans have been making so many excuses the past few years that, if kobe doesnt win a championship now that they are "the best laker team ever," it might just collapse every basketball messageboard with their whining and excuses.
Wade isn't anything close to MJ.
However Wade can atleast brag about how he helped the most dominant player win his 4th ring.
EXACTLY!!That is the problem. He actually isn't the best player in his time.
Duncan & Shaq have that honour.
Duncan + Shaq have 8 of the last 10 rings between them. They are undoubtedly the #1 and #2 players of their time.
Yeah, Kobe has 3, but so do Manu + Parker.
Okay man. Name-calling, that's the sign of a well thought-out, reasonable argument.
I think it's hilarious how you Lakers fans are arguing with the rest of the league in NBA fans and still think you're right. Every single other team's fans are calling you out for this lunacy. Your response is this. Awesome. Keep up that good work at proving Kobe is the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth.
This is what happens when you have a fanbase that's predicated on hype and making Sportscenter highlights. There are some actually great Lakers fans here, but you notice most of them are keeping their mouths shut. You can name the complete homers to a T with a thread like this.
I want to be like Mike - Kobe
Okay man. Name-calling, that's the sign of a well thought-out, reasonable argument.
I think it's hilarious how you Lakers fans are arguing with the rest of the league in NBA fans and still think you're right. Every single other team's fans are calling you out for this lunacy. Your response is this. Awesome. Keep up that good work at proving Kobe is the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth.
[IMG]file:///C:/DO E%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]
Sometimes I dream
That he is me
You've got to see that's how I dream to be
I dream I move, I dream I groove
Like Mike
If I could Be Like Mike
Again I try
Just need to fly
For just one day if I could
Be that way
I dream I move
I dream I groove
Like Mike
If I could Be Like Mike
http://www.authorviews.com/authors/r...rovell-obd.htm
This was how much impact Mike had and on the way helped players like Marbury & co get those big contracts.
damn Lakerfan getting owned up in this one
i swear reading comprehension owns all of you. wutever enjoy your finals days in the duncan era as he winds down
newsflash: Duncan is only 2 years older than Kobe and has been in the league 1 year less.
Let's get this straight.
So far nobody has said that Kobe is better than Michael. However Kobe haters have used the argument that Kobe comes nowhere near Michael in achievements.
I'm cool with that. But then when it comes to Kobe vs LeBron, all of a sudden LeBron has the achievements to compare to Kobe? LeBron is the one here that has done nothing. Kobe is the MVP and has 3 rings.
The le of best player is there for the taking if Lebron wants it this year. He's going to have to take the ring from Kobe this year. He has to make those free throws in the closing minutes. He has to make that game winning shot.
Dare I say Lebron's been unclutch? How many more missed clutch free throws is he going to miss? How many more clutch shots going clang?
Until Lebron takes that , he's still ringless, MVPless and just less than Kobe...period.
If LeBron wins a ring this year, I'll be the first to say Lebron > Kobe. Until then he's of the Barkleys and Malones of the world. He'll most likely get his first MVP this year, so he gets into the great category. Great individual talent but not good enough to win a championship.
Last edited by Allanon; 01-16-2009 at 04:51 PM.
Atleast we're still proud of that era. And as Duncan said earlier last year to Lebron "It's going to be your league in a little while" and boy is that coming true.
Kobe nutslobbers on the other hand are all bitter about LBJ's success, and no wonder people are standing up for him.
and Duncan's career stats & achievements >>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's
This is a fair post. However, I have to point out that several Lakers fans here are attempting to get Kobe mentioned as a "close second" to Jordan. He is not close in the minds of many NBA fans who saw the 80s and 90s of basketball. You're right, LeBron's accomplishments don't compare to Kobe now, and if both retired today, Kobe would undoubtedly be regarded as (by far) the better player.
However, I feel that as of now, LeBron is the best all-around player in the NBA. By best, I mean if you need one guy to give your team a shot at the best record and a run to the Finals, you take him. Then Kobe (yeah, I'm such a Kobe hater saying he's the SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE), then Duncan, then Chris Paul.
However, the reason the comparison between Kobe and LeBron is less about accomplishments and more about level of play is simply due to the fact that LeBron JUST turned 24. Kobe is 30. When comparing Kobe to Jordan, accomplishments are basically all you have to go on, since I'm pretty sure Kobe would destroy Jordan at 45 years of age. There is no way to compare the two at the current basketball operating level, as Jordan has long since retired.
However, you don't have to compare accomplishments career-wise when you're talking LeBron - Kobe, as they are still active players. To say that LeBron (the front-runner for the MVP this year) will never close games like Kobe is presumptuous and foolhardy. It gives Laker fans a horrible reputation when they hate on James and his career, who isn't even eligible for cheaper car insurance yet. It's like saying "Chris Paul, you can never be the point guard that Magic or Kidd was." I really have to wonder where the Laker fans vitriol is spewing from, if not from a case of jealousy that the player they feel is close to Jordan's level is already being equaled and eclipsed by another, if not in overall basketball ability, then just by the star power and the media buzz around him. Every NBA fan out there has to admit that this the NBA is going to put every kind of media market out there to push LeBron to levels of s om not seen since Jordan.
Lastly, I don't see how LeBron has proved that he can't close. Didn't he just dominate the Pistons vaunted defense almost entirely by himself less than two years ago? He's not even 25 years old yet, and the fact that threads like this exist is a pretty explicit example of Lakers fans (not all of you) being so full of their own team to the point of abandoning any kind of logic when posting. Like the earlier fan who claimed I had probably never watched Jordan play -- when it gets to that point, you know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for any kind of reasoning to prove your point. Almost every fan from every other team is pissed because Lakers fans have a propensity to do this with Kobe and this argument is tired and old. You CANNOT say that James will never learn to close a game out. It's ridiculous to even think that. He is doing at 24 what some of the greatest players were never able to do over the course of their careers, and Lakers fans hate this fact. Sad.
I do NOT have a problem with Lakers fans stating that LeBron and Kobe are equal. I do NOT have a problem with Lakers fans stating Kobe is better right now, as long as they offer evidence and rationale thought to explain why. What I, and the rest of the NBA's fans here get pissed about (I think) is when Lakers fans launch into this bizarre rhetoric that LeBron isn't on the same level as Kobe (or never will be), or that Kobe is approaching Jordan in terms of... anything basketball related, really. Kobe is arguably a better three point shooter than Jordan, but so is Michael Redd. No one can unequivocally say how good LeBron will be, or where his peak is, because there has never been a player like him before. Magic is the closest, and I would argue that Magic was still a better player than Kobe is, although that's a much more reasonable discussion. This patent dismissal of James by Lakers fans is just galling and, with no other way to put it, really, really stupid.
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 01-16-2009 at 05:29 PM.
yea because thats the ONLY era you guys have. and what makes you think laker fans arent proud of kobe's era? hes a straight up killer and you know it. its re ed how so many of you guys hate on kobe. you can hate him all you want because hes a great player on a rival team. i understand that, but show some respect for his basketball skills.Atleast we're still proud of that era. And as Duncan said earlier last year to Lebron "It's going to be your league in a little while" and boy is that coming true.
Kobe nutslobbers on the other hand are all bitter about LBJ's success, and no wonder people are standing up for him.
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