What's hilarious is that Laker Fan can't even mount a unified attack.
Where was I referring to Bynum being a franchise player? Or stating that he ever was?
Please re-read what I said. "At the core" =/= franchise player.
The fact that the Lakers were rejecting any and all trade offers that involved Bynum before point to their plans to keep him as part of the rebuilding effort.
Until the Gasol trade, the emphasis was on letting Bynum develop the potential the team saw he had and meshing it with Kobe's.
Reading comprehension. It's not that hard, really.
at how this thread degenerated so quickly
I'm out. I don't even know what the we're arguing about anymore.
If Bynum's not that good, then trading Shaq accomplished nothing.
I believe he still is the core. The lakers are actually a very young team. Bynum will be the center for a good 10 years. The addition of Pau last year due to Bynums injury just gives the team the luxury of being able to bring him along more slowly.
I have no issues with those statements.
It's silly responses like the one the good doctor made above, implying that Bynum wasn't a mainstay of the whole rebuilding effort, that make me laugh.
No GM worth his salary hinges his team's rebuilding success on taking advantage of others' incompetence. Of course you should take advantage of those windfalls if they come, but neither should those situations mask those efforts the FO actually made by themselves.
Essentially, I think Kupchak got bailed out by the Gasol trade, much like Paxson got bailed out by the draft lottery and Derrick Rose in Chicago.
The Lakers rebuilt in 3 years after the Shaq trade. They are always relevant. spurs fans that cry about the Gasol trade are a joke. They will do anything before they admit that the greatness of the Laker Franchise. Even after how many countless times they've bounced them out of the playoffs.
Lakers had to trade Shaq or else we'd be stuck paying him $30 Million and Kobe would either be in a Clippers uniform. Not a coincidence the trade was made the day before free agents were allowed to sign. Mitch's hands were tied so there was no way he could have held out for Wade. He's done a great job. Anytime you have multiple second rounders sticking around the League shows that your a good GM. Throw in the Gasol and Ariza trade and he's done an excellent job.
Shaq + Kobe + Malone + Payton were!
Exhibit A of how much one stroke of good fortune can color people's perceptions of a guy:
So a GM who does an excellent job banks on Smush Parker as the starting PG?
It wasn't a matter of Kobe OR Shaq. It was about paying Shaq what he wanted or not. Buss gambled that Shaq didn't have any more in the tank to win another one, and obviously failed miserably at that. The Lakers could have had another ring or two with Shaq and Kobe, and you could have kicked Shaq's fat ass right around this time.
Say what you will, but the current Lakers team still needs to prove they can go all the way.
Originally Posted by BlackSwordsMan View Post
shaq + kobe were unstoppablenicely done.Shaq + Kobe + Malone + Payton were!
Also to blackswordsman, Shaq + Kobe + Bavetta + Stern were unstoppable.
FIFY.
They knocked the Spurs out. And Payton clearly wasn't built for this team.Shaq + Kobe + Malone + Payton were!
Again more revisionist history.
If you don't know anything about the Laker's history other than some tabloid BSPN article you just read you should probably shut your mouth.
Kobe wanted no part of Shaquille O'neal. He would have signed with the Clipshow had Shaq stayed and Buss payed him out his extension. Things were that bad between the two.
Well, let a long time Laker fan offer up a bit of history....
Back in 1970, there were three new teams coming to the NBA, Buffalo Braves, Cleveland Cavaliers, and the Portland Trailblazers. Every team in the league had to make 1 player available in the expansion draft. Chick Hearn conjectured that the Lakers might want to keep their new talent, and make Elgin Baylor available, or perhaps even Jerry West. They didn't, and the young guard we lost, Johnny Egan, never went anywhere after the expansion draft, but the idea to go for the future was there.
What trade value does Shaq have now? Little or none. People who think the Lakers would have won more les with him are speculating, and I don't like the odds we would have faced. Even if the Lakers had, we would be horrible right now, with no future in sight.
Face it, for the latter end of the Shaq/Kobe era, it was all about those two guys. The league had adjusted to us. Sacramento came close in 2002, but not close enough. Spurs beat us fair and square in 2003. Malone and Payton got us to the finals in 2004, but Karl wouldn't be back for another try, even if we kept Shaq and Kobe.
Now, we are a multi-talented team, anyone can become the go-to guy. Anyone who says Kobe can't win without Shaq is in denial, and talking smack. Look at the Lakers history, we always rebuild. We just did it quicker than expected and became the best in the west again, and a lot of fans don't like that!
Kobe can and will wn without Shaq, the only question is when. I say soon.
Kobe wants one thing one day and another thing the other. Trade demands anyone? Bottom line is that he wants to win, and he wants to do it on the biggest stage, and under the brightest spotlights. Or do you really think he was going to go to the Clippers? If Kobe accepted to play alongside Kwame Brown and Smush Parker, then you would think he would have found a way to play alongside Shaq for a couple more years, especially if it meant winning more rings.
I agree and i don't think the Lakers would have had the depth to contend come playoffs time. They had already lost Horry, Malone, Payton, Fox & most likely Fisher too. Do people honestly think that Shaq & Kobe alone can get them a championship. Heck even their 3 peat wasn't all that easy. They had to get so many breaks from their role players in 2000 & 2002. And the latter one had some dubious calls going their way.
However i don't think they should've traded Shaq, or atleast waited for a more lucrative offer from the Heat. I think their best bet was to trade for Dirk. Kobe & Dirk, now that would've been a nice 1-2 punch.
let no one ever forget. this is why the lakers are what they are today.
Heheh. Yeah, I started dying when I saw it also.
'Tis true!
I'm at peace with it, though it took awhile.
Exhibit A of spurs fan only hearing what they wanna hear and not knowing how to count. Ariza and Gasol are two trades idiot. And it's impressive when any GM has multiple second rounders that stay in the League.
That was 2 years ago. WTF does Smush have to do with today. Lakers still need a PG bad, but that doesn't take away that Mitch has been doing an excellent job. Rebuilding in 3 years is impressive no matter how you slice it. I can't think of any other team that rebuilt that quickly.So a GM who does an excellent job banks on Smush Parker as the starting PG?
Win at any cost?
I don't think so. I'm with Popovich on this one. Winning a ring is great but be humble and don't rub it in your opponents. That's one of the reason why I admire Pop and what he did for San Antonio.
And that is why I loved trading Shaq. Quite honestly, I would have given him away for nothing at the time.
Am I the only one who thinks Shaq is a big joke?
Sure, we won three rings with him here.
(And no, Spurs fans, Shaq did not carry Kobe to those three rings. As I said time and time again here, The Pacers, Sixers and Nets were nothing but after-thoughts..the "real" championships were always the WCF..those classic Lakers/Spurs battles...the ones in which Kobe did more to beat the spurs than Shaq ever did..but I'm digressing)
But the constant whining and the constant lack of respect for your fellow NBA-ers really became old.
All the BS he said about the "Queens" and the "whiny" Spurs, quite frankly, pissed me off.
Also, the Lakers would NOT have won anymore rings with him here.
, we couldn't win the last two years he was here and the Spurs were just hitting their strides.
Plus the fact that Fish was looking for a payday plus the fact that Shaq was looking for an unheard of 30 mil per year extension plus the fact the kobe needed a new contract plus the fact that Malone and Payton wasn't coming back just meant that we had to die a slow painful death as fgar as championship asperations were concerned.
Instead we suffered for 3 years and we're back to contending again instead of a slow, painful decline that sometimes lasts up to 5-7 years (i.e. Dallas, Sacramento..etc).
We knew trading Shaq would not have done our ring hunting any good. But it got us back on the stage much faster than it usually takes.
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