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I am seriously going on a diet…I never realized the distain some folks have for fat people!
What physically debilitating illness(es) are caused by smoking? Emphyzema? Maybe some forms of cancer? That "over-weight lady" could easily been that "lady with serious emphyzema" ... wouldn't she still have qualified for a handicap spot?
I am seriously going on a diet…I never realized the distain some folks have for fat people!
no. If a 180 lb smoker and a 180 lb big mac destroyer both can walk easily enough, then neither should have the tag.
If a 180 lb smoker has to carry around an oxygen tank around while a 500 lb person needs a wheelchair, I don't see why both don't get the sticker. Same thing with an anexoric person that is too weak to stand up.
it's also not like obese people haven't had their share of societal problems. Seems to me that airlines have charged people for 2 seats if they are over a certain weight limit.
Cmon, dont be disingenuous on purpose.
Are you trying to tell me that I shouldnt automatically assume the worst about that obese person with a handicap sticker? That he/she suffers from some ailment that makes him/her fat?!
Seriously?! What, do they have diabetes, too? Emphyzema? Caused by what, pray tell? Couldnt be the extra 80 lbs their chest has to inflate every time they breathe, or the extra strain on the heart, no?
Look, Im not stupid. I do know that certain thyroid problems cause massive weight gain. I know that.
But lets not pretend for even one ing second that 31% of Americans suffer from some other problem that causes obesity. Or that 63% in this country are overweight for some other ailment.
No, the truth hurts. Most of those 31% cant stop eating, plain and simple. Just like smoking. Its an addiction, not a disease. 63% of the males in this country cant see their junk without a mirror. Thats pathetic and troubling.
Yet we coddle them, tell them everything is going to be OK and that it isnt their fault. Youre just enabling their continued decline in health with that mindset.
Smoking decreased nearly overnight the moment it became socially unacceptable to do so (cancer is a big reason for that change...maybe a little Hollywood though). Maybe if fat people were as villified as smokers, the obesity rate would drop as well. But I guess food and nicotine arent on the same scale of addiction.
Oh, wait....
Just an observation.
I think youre losing my point about the relation between the two.
It isnt about smokers getting a handicap sticker. Not even close.
Its about one addiction being treated completely differently from the other with no basis in medical science.
Smokers are at the whim of society's proclivites, while the other is enabled/tolerated by members of society and supported by tax dollars.
TO BE CLEAR, neither should be helped along by tax dollars. I think fat people who cant stop eating are no better or no different than smokers.
Society doesnt seem to think so. Thats what I am pointing out.
People do get nasty about it. I was walking to my car in a store parking lot one night when a carload of teenage girls pulled up beside me and started yelling, "Yeah, walk it off, Fatty!" Hardly original, but mean enough for what it was.
Now I've outed myself as a fat girl
so you are saying that we shouldn't coddle the dude holding up that voice vibrator and the oxygen tank either, right? No tag for you.
see the circular logic here?
I think you never got the point that there is no relation between the two
I'm sure most of us wonder "How can they do that to themselves?" in regard to both smokers and the obese. There are underlying psychological/psychiatric reasons for both. The smokers as well as other addicts have a compulsion for their action; I don't think anyone would argue the fact that house-bound morbidly obese exhibit clinical depression. We may not might like it or accept it, but both are legitimate medical diagnoses.
As far as the handicapped plates go, neither group is awarded them merely for being smokers or obese. When either group exhibits the complications of their disorders (smokers=emphysema, COPD and obese=hypertension, diabetes) they can get those plates!
No, you came across to me as being indignant that obese people were getting handicap tags (special treatment) solely because of their own self-destructive behavior and shouldn't be coddled, and I simply pointed out that it could just as easily have been someone suffering a handicap from smoking--another self-destructive behavior. I think you just over-analyized what I said. Depending on their level of handicap, they'd both be eligible. Nothing more, nothing less.
And yes there is a horrific stigma for being obese, or even somewhat overweight. They just haven't found a way to legislate it yet because people have to eat to survive. People don't need to smoke to survive, so I don't think that was as difficult to address.
I quit smoking not long after the price of cigarettes jumped up another dollar or so in January 2007 ... if they outlawed dollar menus, there's a good chance that could have a positive impact on America's health, too.
Man, you are stuck on handicap tags. Handicap tags dont mean to me, ok?
Its the fact that severe obesity is considered a disability. Do you realize what that means?
That means you and me can go on an eating binge of epic proportions, blow up to 400 lbs, medically approve your "bad back" condition (caused by your weight probem) and receive SS dollars as compensation for your hardship.
Thats wrong.
No, I dont. Because youre...still...talking...about....handicap....sti ckers.see the circular logic here?
I guess my point wasnt lost on just Blake. Handicap stickers mean nothing to me and have nothing to do with my argument. See above post.
But yes, I agree that any handicap should get a sticker, regardless if its self-inlficted or not.
The handicap sticker was more a reference to the ADA of 1990. It made getting a handicap sticker incredibly easy. Which, in turn, made it easier for abusive citizens to gain "disabled" status for various ailments one could not previously. Obviously, being classified as disabled allows the citizen to receive SS payments to support their disabled lifestyle. Guess I should have just said that instead of alluding to it.
The handicap sticker was just the start of my argument, not the end-all be-all its being made out to be.
Good point. But with the recent legislation to ban smoking in this country, dont be surprised if obese/fat people arent on the docket soon.And yes there is a horrific stigma for being obese, or even somewhat overweight. They just haven't found a way to legislate it yet because people have to eat to survive. People don't need to smoke to survive, so I don't think that was as difficult to address.
Heh, yeah. I am actually in the process of quitting. But just because I am trying to doesnt mean I hold some bias against current smokers or feel that their legal practice should be outlawed in adult only establishments (not saying you were, to be clear).I quit smoking not long after the price of cigarettes jumped up another dollar or so in January 2007 ... if they outlawed dollar menus, there's a good chance that could have a positive impact on America's health, too.
I just hope DarkReign isn't against the ADA for people that are really disabled, like people who have cerebral palsy, wounded veterans and legally blind people. I'm all for closing the loop holes, I see your point here, but taking about the ADA just because obese people abuse it doesn't make it right.
/endrant
Last edited by ashbeeigh; 01-20-2009 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Took out my mega rant. It was uncalled for
Whoa whoa whoa....I am in complete agreement with you.
Those disabilities aren't typically from self-destructive behavior, so I doubt he is.
I believe your government will soon beg to differ with you on tha subject.
you can also smoke like a chimney and receive the same SS dollars for your hardship if you develop lung cancer
the license plates are just part of it.
Again, I'm not sure why you are saying that smokers have it rougher than obese people.
I know I got in the discussion here once before with people about the fact that it does seem to be socially acceptable to go up to a thin person and comment on their "lack of weight"- to tell them they need to eat something- or that they must be anorexic, but it is not socially acceptable to tell an overweight person to quit eating.
I'm not sure what you mean by that but ok.
Not sure how you can be the one to discriminate who deserves ADA and who doesn't.
yeah, you don't see too many overweight Vicky Secret models
They don't. I'm a smoker and I have no idea why should other people pay for my health care, let alone subsidize me because I contracted a disability. Same for non-smokers, fats and re s.
Anyway, the rationale usually provided is that tobacco is heavily taxed, unlike food - therefore there is no kind of free-ride, as long-term smokers generally pay everything they eventually get from the government if their health is affected.
What?
Now this I agree with.Anyway, the rationale usually provided is that tobacco is heavily taxed, unlike food - therefore there is no kind of free-ride, as long-term smokers generally pay everything they eventually get from the government if their health is affected.
No. I don't think that's it. If evolutionary advantage were the cause of our judgment, men would be drooling over size 10s and their child bearing hips (as in the Monroe days), rather than ridiculing them in favor of anorexic waifs.
If anything, I think we're judgmental because it is socially advantageous. Power is often established and/or maintained by identifying a different, and lesser, "them."
I honestly would be surprised if I've ever even thought "fat " in such a situation. And I'm not saying that because I think I'm perfect or completely free of judgmental tendencies -- I'm not -- but because it's really not my go-to response.
Normal, healthy, and proactive? I disagree on all three counts. I think such judgment is considered normal only because people seldom challenge that idea, not because it is inherent to our nature as human beings. I think it's far more healthy for us all, collectively and individually, to focus on being the best people we can be, rather than to spend our lives fixated on the personal choices made by others. And I think that being judgmental, especially to the point of ridicule, is incredibly divisive, which I think is a huge hindrance to proactivity.
Furthermore, it's naive to assume that people who are obese are always in that condition due to cir stances within their control. I think it's incredibly damaging to remove personal responsibility in the case of addiction, regardless the substance in question, so I don't support the thought that someone who compulsively overeats is doing so because they are physiologically incapable of not compulsively eating. However, there can be many legitimate health issues that lead to weight gain. For example, I have a very close friend who eats healthfully and exercises regularly, and always has, but due to health complications and prescription medications (many of which she's been on since early childhood) is usually hovering around the 300 lb. mark.
I don't think that disrespecting a different segment of the population is the proper reaction to being disrespected yourself.
Again, this is all making the assumption that shoving ice cream and hamburgers down your throat all day is the only way to become obese. It's just not. And, even if it was, I don't think it's ever okay for someone to be ridiculed or ostracized for their personal decisions or lifestyle choice.
At no point did I get high on myself or think I was above being judgmental. In fact, if you'll notice, I specifically worded my complaint as being disgusted by how judgmental WE are as a society. I try my very, very hardest not to make snap judgments, but I know for a fact that I'm not always successful. Just because I may do something, however, doesn't make it any less disgusting.
I pretty much like fat people...most of them are unpretentious and down to earth having been harassed about their weight most of their lives. This is not always true...but more often than not in my experience. That said...if they piss me off probably the first thing I will go after is their weight.
But I honestly don't care if someone is fat...it's their life and if people enjoy eating they should go ahead and do it...as you only live once.
Somepeople really have no choice...as they are born th at way. It's just like being born poor, rich, ugly, beautiful or stupid or smart...if it's something they can't really control, it's pretty stupid to make a big deal about it.
I mean being born a dog or cat pretty much sucks as far as I can tell...does that mean we should give dogs and cats over being dogs and cats and make them feel bad about it? It's not like they had a choice about it.
The problem with comparing obesity to smoking is that you get ridiculed for being a smoker when you make the decision to engage in the activity of smoking a cigarette in public. Someone who is obese is ridiculed for being obese when they exist in public.
That's a pretty big difference.
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