You and I fundamentally disagree on this. To the point that I wouldn't even know where to start in arguing some of the points made in this post.
I'll leave it at that.
ditto on what BB said about why we have become a fast food nation, but my grandparents were around during a time when restraint wasn't really a choice......it was a necessity.
We take it for granted that we can hop in the car and get whatever we need from HEB or WalMart at a reasonable cost. What do eggs cost......about a buck for dozen? My grandmother gave piano lessons for eggs back in the 30s.
I gave up about 3 posts ago.
I think people like DR miss out on things that happen in the real world.
I miss nothing. You dont know me and I dont know you.
I think your views on smoking and obesity are indicative of a society gone soft. A pussified nation of whiney little health coinscious morons, more concerned with what other people do than what themselves do.
I think the parallel between smoking and obesity are obvious, you disagree.
Thats fine. Legislate away...riiiiiiight up until a majority sees one of your activities/leisures/habits as something other than acceptable.
It may not happen to you personally, but it will happen to someone you love, and you'll cry about it then and not understand how it went this far.
Flame away.
After reading your posts such as:
I think you have an apparent disconnect with people in real world settings. It's easy to kick back and call a fat person a pussy when it's not you that's fat....I think your views on smoking and obesity are indicative of a society gone soft. A pussified nation of whiney little health coinscious morons, more concerned with what other people do than what themselves do.
oh but wait.........calling a fat person a "pussy" is not only ok in your book, but it's actually helpful.
I think people with disabilities deserve help no matter how they got to that point.I think the parallel between smoking and obesity are obvious, you disagree.
Thats fine. Legislate away...riiiiiiight up until a majority sees one of your activities/leisures/habits as something other than acceptable.
It may not happen to you personally, but it will happen to someone you love, and you'll cry about it then and not understand how it went this far.
Flame away.
If you aren't 100% sure why someone is fat, then you need to shut the up
Wait, so let me get this straight. I should do my best impression of Dr Phil when dealing with a glutton?
What do you call a crack addict? Crackhead
What do you call a meth addict? Methhead
What do you call an alcoholic? Boozehound, myriad of other names
What do you call a smoker? idk, really. A smoker? Not very harsh.
A person who smokes weed? A person who is homeless?
I mean, idealistically, I am quite fond of your approach. But I can guarantee in the time you have been posting here, I could do a search a find some derogatory term you used to describe someone about something that falls right in line with me thinking obesity is no better or worse than any other addiction.
Really, there is probably only one person who has term here that I can think of that probably never said in ill-word on this board about anyone in a generality (and I am not too sure about that or interested to find out).
It is an addiction (eating that is). Why is it we separate obesity from the other addictions? I am only guessing, but is it because it is such a widespread problem that so many close to us are obviously guilty of, that it becomes politically correct to not label them the addict they are?
Fine. If thats the reason, then I understand other's position. But that doesnt mean I have to conform to the requisite pity I should have for an addict of a self-induced nature.
No quarter given, none expected.
Well...thats....well, its completely opposite of where I come from. I have known a certain individual who has fluctuated weight throughout his life. Wait, make that two individuals.In my own, personal experience it's more likely to be damaging to self-esteem and exacerbate depression in those with that particular affliction. I really don't know too many people that respond well to negative criticism.
One female, one male. One would go from severely overweight to well-conditioned physique (male). The other from overweight to slim and trim (female).
Their reasons for constantly falling backwards? Peer pressure. Their entire family is overweight and if they tried to better themselves, they were....ridiculed isnt the right word (too harsh), but I think you can come up with something better and more fitting. It was either jealousy or resentment from their family. So they'd conform to their familial expectations and start the bad eating habits they so desperately wanted to change.
Those are the same people who "positively reinforced" their weight problems as children, embraced them for it and told them to ignore the BS in school they took because of it. Only to turn their back on them the moment they did something to change it.
Positive reinforcement works, I get that. I also never said I walk around insulting fat people for kicks. Never said that. Im the nicest mf-er in public and private that you could meet. But to roll with us, you have to drop your pretenses because in our circle, your every aspect of existence is fair game for some friendly jabbing.
My balding, my skinniness, my lack of willpower...all the insecurities I hold have been busted on me for as long as I can remember (which makes ST funny in some ways).
Cant change MPB. Cant change skinniness (eat to live, not the other way around, high metabolism too). But I dont get butt-hurt that someone finds my condition funny, I'll find something about them to equally razz them.
Point is, I think youre misinterpreting what I say about friendly jabbing at someone's weight. Like I said, I dont give overweight people dirty looks, or insult them for no good reason (really take a lot to piss me off). If I came across that way, then its my fault.
But to pretend like it doesnt exist or ignore the obvious eating habits of an overweight person and just keep your mouth shut because its the polite thing to do is a completely foreign idea to me (of people you know/love). You get called on it. Works for us.
Is it always pleasant? Of course not. How are you going to politely and positively tell someone that theyre an alcoholic? Intervention? Yeah right. No, you tell them in no uncertain terms over the 2-way phone with a pane of glass sitting between you and them, while their sitting in jail for their 3rd drunk driving.
Its hrash, its not very Dr Phil. But its effective.
Not true. Didnt say that. See, thats called an assumption, something you dont do.
Ha. Right, because youre above such assumptions. Seriously, what you said there sounds like the right answer, but its far from reality.If you aren't 100% sure why someone is fat, then you need to shut the up
We all make assumptions about everything. You might not assume anything about an obese person, but there are other aspects in your life that you do. You just dont say it out loud in a group setting like a forum.
Dont pretend youre better than me or anyone else. Youre not "above it all" and nor is anyone else in this thread. Youre not a moral paragon and you never will be. Its impossible.
The only difference is that you dont categorize obesity under the same blanket of addiction that I do. Thats fine. Thats relevant. But please dont try and reach too far with what you think I am or am not. Youre liable to pull something.
I think your interpretation of friendly jabbing is coming across pretty clearly.
Pretty much.
No, all *you* really need to do is shut the up and mind your own business. I know it's hard, but it is definitely possible.
oh ok. So the people like Dr Phil that try to help other without your "friendly jabbing" method is a pussy?
Did I misinterpret that?
I never said I'm better than you but if you want to "make that assumption", be my guest.Ha. Right, because youre above such assumptions. Seriously, what you said there sounds like the right answer, but its far from reality.
We all make assumptions about everything. You might not assume anything about an obese person, but there are other aspects in your life that you do. You just dont say it out loud in a group setting like a forum.
Dont pretend youre better than me or anyone else. Youre not "above it all" and nor is anyone else in this thread. Youre not a moral paragon and you never will be. Its impossible.
The only difference is that you dont categorize obesity under the same blanket of addiction that I do. Thats fine. Thats relevant. But please dont try and reach too far with what you think I am or am not. Youre liable to pull something.
I could care less about you personally. What you are posting on here is ridiculous.
To simply throw obesity under "a blanket of addiction" is stupid.
I'm just wondering if there are actually fat people in the world who have no idea that they are fat, and who will never know they are fat unless *you* tell them?
I think some people confuse "civic duty" with being an obnoxiously rude prick.
I had a neighbor named Albert (the kids in the 'hood called him "fat Albert") who was always a bit overweight, but became increasingly heavy after his mom and dad passed away within a year and a half of each other.
He was 40-ish, was divorced, and was living with his elderly parents. He owned a small auto repair shop.
After his parents died his went from being a fairly normal, heavy-set guy, to being really heavy. He reached a point where he couldn't work on cars very easily and actually hired a guy to work on the cars while he "managed" the shop, which amounted primarily to sitting around playing on the computer.
He continued to gain weight, his business closed and he ended up staying at his house all day...which is when the morbid obesity kicked in. Eventually some neighbors started to bring him food whenever he couldn't get out on his own. One of my older neighbors would bring him 24 piece buckets of chicken, a dozen rolls and a gallon of ice cream for a typical meal. Finally he reached a point where he wasn't getting out of bed at all. The same neighbor who was his primary food source finally called an ambulence because he became very worried about Albert's health. Albert was so infuriated and embarrassed when the paramedics showed up that he had a heart attack as they were trying to remove him from his home and passed away on the way to the hospital.
I talked to him once or twice about getting some counseling, but I never really pushed him to do it. I even knew a good counselor but I never wrote the number on a piece of paper and said "here, call her". I was always nice to him, but I never went out of my way to try to help him get better or feel better about himself. In fact I was kind of critical of his lack of caring for himself, in spite of his mental suffering. I was openly critical to my neighbor who would bring him tons of food. I just kind of watched this guy kill himself over the course of about 4 years, and had a very judgmental at ude about his condition.
I don't go through life with a ton of things I regret, but one of my big ones was my at ude towards my neighbor, Albert, and the fact that I didn't do more to try to help him get better. I judged him way too harshly. I could have/should have done a lot more for him.
Who said I was talking to strangers about their weight?I'm just wondering if there are actually fat people in the world who have no idea that they are fat, and who will never know they are fat unless *you* tell them?
I think some people confuse "civic duty" with being an obnoxiously rude prick.
Or are you trying to say I have no business pointing out the obvious with friends and family?
*sigh* Whatever.
That was a random remark that crosses my mind anytime this type of subject comes up.
Although I will respond to this:
You would be hard-pressed to find anything even remotely close to me posting a personal insult to anyone. And I don't mean calling whatever asshole cut me off in traffic a bag, but personally insulting someone? Won't happen. My mama actually took the time to teach me compassion and sensitivity ... or restraint at the very least.But I can guarantee in the time you have been posting here, I could do a search a find some derogatory term you used to describe someone about something that falls right in line with me thinking obesity is no better or worse than any other addiction.
And I have been posting here since day 1, so you probably don't want to waste that much time.
You misunderstand. I was talking about generalizations or assumptions or a derogatory remark about a certain sub-section of people.You would be hard-pressed to find anything even remotely close to me posting a personal insult to anyone. And I don't mean calling whatever asshole cut me off in traffic a bag, but personally insulting someone? Won't happen. My mama actually took the time to teach me compassion and sensitivity ... or restraint at the very least.
And I have been posting here since day 1, so you probably don't want to waste that much time.
Never called anyone addicted to crack a "crackhead" ever, huh? I doubt that, but I'll take your word for it.
You know what I've heard about fat people?
They will take pictures of themselves from weird angles so they don't look so fat on the internet.
Are you fat?
Afraid someone might think the real you is an asshole?
no, but I could also say I'm Brad Pitt in disguise.
No personal agenda here.
As a child, I was basically a husky kid who was athletic. Despite the fact that I played multiple sports -- and played them well -- including cardio-intensive sports like soccer and swimming, I was always the heaviest kid in my class even if not always the tallest. As I got into high school, I remained one of the biggest kids in the class and that meant that I got shuttled into playing positions like offensive line. To play the position well, I was told, required that I get even bigger. I complied, because I wanted to excel. I gained weight but maintained a pretty substantial degree of athleticism (at a fairly substantial weight for a high school kid in the late 80's, I ran sub 5.0 40's and 6 minute miles, and played varsity baseball, too). I did well enough on the football field to be recruited to play in college; again, upon rising a level, my coaches advised that success on the field would necessitate gaining weight and again, I complied. By the time that I finished college, I was at or around 300 pounds, but strong and athletic.
But when college ended, so too did my daily athletic training. While many of my teammates were blessed with cons utions that allowed the added weight to melt off of them, nothing I did made that weight go away. While I am basically height-weight proportional, the added weight that playing football asked of me never went away. While I remain fairly athletic, I also qualify among the obese in society. No matter what I do, fitness-wise, the likelihood is pretty high that my best end point in weight loss terms is to fall simply into the clincally "overweight" category -- and that's a long way off.
In relative terms, compared to those who are truly morbidly obese, I have things easy. But a thread like this one makes me think (again) that it might not have taken much for my life to have gone just wrong enough to tip the balance toward morbid obesity, too. I empathize with those who reach that point and understand that with the right biological factors, some particularlized conditioning in youth, and a small bit of psychological (or physical) trauma, morbid obesity can easily sneak up on a person.
I'd fundamentally disagree that there's any societal value in riduculing the obese (or anyone who suffers from an addictive problem of that nature). I actually hope that I'm more prone to compassion and sensitivity because that's how I was raised and because that's how I'd prefer to be treated. The obese are, frankly, among the easiest sufferers of addictive/physiological disorders to spot -- they can't hide that problem by choosing not to make it known; they don't require any degree of significant investigation to uncover their woes. And that, I think, adds to the stigma and, in turn, the depressive qualities that follow obesity. Those who are obese don't, I think, need anyone to advise them that they've got a problem.
But unlike many other addictive disorders, I think many values in broader society tend to more readily promote obesity. The cost of cigarettes is relatively prohibitive; you have to find a drug dealer, come up with money, and avoid police detection in acquiring drugs. But the cost of foods that promote obesity is not prohibitive and the availability of such foods at bargain prices is not merely widespread -- it's thrust in our faces!
In thinking about this thread, I was reminded of a recent commercial that advertised that some family sized fried chicken meal could be obtained less expensively at KFC than in a grocery store. And if you stop to think about it, on the whole, less wholesome dietary choices tend to be the cheaper alternatives at virtually any meal. A 20-piece fried chicken dinner or a large pizza from a big box producer costs a whole lot less than salmon filets, a whole grain rice, and spinach.
Choosing to eat healthy foods tends, at least initially, to put a serious dent in someone's wallet -- far more costly than perpetuating a diet of things that have little or no nutritional benefit and substantial dietary downside.
People ask in this thread how the morbidly obese continue to eat as they do, and I think that it actually becomes more cost-effective to eat in that fashion than to try to make healthy choices. That's true even in terms of the quan ies in which food is purchased. Buy more and it costs less in relative terms -- almost everywhere. The bigger bag of potato chips has a per volume discount in pricing.
To an extent, I think this goes to some of what Ruff said earlier. I don't know that I'd call it hyperconsumerism necessarily, but it's clear that the packaging and advertising of the easiest forms of nourishment make purchasing and consumption of mass quan ies easier and, in some cases, more desireable than making more nutritious and less gluttonous choices.
My part of the story is germane to any of that only because I feel lucky to have never gone from obese to morbidly obese. But I don't think it's a long fall. And I don't think that prevention of that fall is something that can be aided by ridicule or scorn. Frankly, while I think there's no panacea, I do think that societal awareness of the problem would be a substantial first step towards its solution. I'm not a huge fan of governmental intervention in the private lives of individuals, but I do wonder if a marketplace that can suggest that gluttony is good, might benefit society as a whole to recalibrate its aims.
In the end, there are lots of deleterious personal choices involved in any problem like obesity, but I'm not sure it's absolutely true that those who suffer from such problems can be simply shamed into making different choices.
Not really. Trolls got to start somewhere.
Afraid someone might think the real you is an asshole?
Its weird that you felt the need to respond, though. Eat up, chubs.
for some reason when i binge on fast food it makes me lose weight...
It doesnt say strangers. This goes for any sort of addiction, including food/eating. People that suffer from depression obviously "compensate" differently. So because one does heroin/drinks alcohol/smokes dope/pops pills and is ridiculed for it, people that eat away their problems are somehow different?
I dont get the distinction and I dont see the dividing line between the groups at all. Yet, its pretty obvious I am in the stark minority on the subject. Can anyone explain that fundamental difference to me?
Seriously.
what are you, 12?
I don't know any mature adult that ridicules someone for having doping or drinking problems.
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