Best PF in the NBA right now

[jack sommerset]

Harris, Terry, Howard, Damp, Diop, Stack, Buckner, George, Croshere
Coach: Avery

Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Claxton, Bowen, Rose, Kerr
Coach: Popovich

Give me 03 Spurs, all day. Spurs were a much more balanced team, and much more well coached.

No way the Spews would have won in 2003 if Dirk did not go down in that playoff series vs the Spews. Mavs were ready to take them down that year.

[timvp]

First of all, I think it's very possible that Dirk has been better than Duncan so far this season. Dirk is scoring better and outside of a few game stretch when TP and Manu were both out, Duncan hasn't been playing much defense. So even though Duncan is a better defender, he hasn't been enough of a better defender to make up for Dirk's advantage offensively. That said, Duncan has another level or two to elevate his game and Dirk is pretty much going all out right now.

But I can't buy the argument that Dirk has in any way been shorted in the teammates department. He plays for a billionaire who has given him plenty of very good pieces along the way. Nash is a Hall of Famer. Finley was pretty damn good back in the day. Terry, Harris, JHo, Jamison, Van Exel and others have been very good at certain times. Dirk has had his chances over the years. Granted, he doesn't have a Parker and Ginobili duo as sidekicks but it's not like he had the trash David Robinson had either.

[jack sommerset]

First of all, I think it's very possible that Dirk has been better than Duncan so far this season. Dirk is scoring better and outside of a few game stretch when TP and Manu were both out, Duncan hasn't been playing much defense. So even though Duncan is a better defender, he hasn't been enough of a better defender to make up for Dirk's advantage offensively. That said, Duncan has another level or two to elevate his game and Dirk is pretty much going all out right now.

But I can't buy the argument that Dirk has in any way been shorted in the teammates department. He plays for a billionaire who has given him plenty of very good pieces along the way. Nash is a Hall of Famer. Finley was pretty damn good back in the day. Terry, Harris, JHo, Jamison, Van Exel and others have been very good at certain times. Dirk has had his chances over the years. Granted, he doesn't have a Parker and Ginobili duo as sidekicks but it's not like he had the trash David Robinson had either.

No . Dirk is surrounded by talent the last 5-6 years. Duncan is the far better. Duncan is the best PF in the history of the league. Duncan made Parker and Mangoos career. You can't say that about any player Dirk has played with. And Duncan is a stud on Defense. Only D Dirk has is in his name.

[Rummpd]

Dirk is still a loser and only effective on one side of the ball. There is only one best PF in the NBA and that is Duncan. Mentioning anyone (with the possible exception of Garnett) is sublime.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Harris, Terry, Howard, Damp, Diop, Stack, Buckner, George, Croshere
Coach: Avery

Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Claxton, Bowen, Rose, Kerr
Coach: Popovich

Give me 03 Spurs, all day. Spurs were a much more balanced team, and much more well coached.

Is there a reason you neglect to mention Robinson was 37 years old, Ginobili was a completely different, less involved Ginobili back then, Parker was in his 2nd year, and Steve Kerr was 40, or did you intentionally list Manu and Robinson as if they were both in the prime of their career? There's no point in comparing the two when you put up a misleading argument.

Lets say that just for arguments sake Duncan's 03 supporting cast was slightly better than Dirk's 07 cast, but they are still comparable and close in ability. Does Duncan not make up for that with the fact the Spurs won a le and Dallas lost in the 1st round?

I'll ask this, if Dallas had Duncan instead of Dirk in 2007, would they have lost in the 1st round?

[Les Grossman]

in fact, guarding him 1on1 is probably the best way to beat the Mavericks, even if he goes off. Which is why a bunch of 3pt shooters on the Mavericks is foolish - they need slashers to play off of a marquee shooter like Dirk ...

Obviously not. The Spurs know that as well as anyone. Then look at Golden State, and see the mass amounts of double and triple teams Dirk saw.

And where the are all these alleged three point shooters the Mavericks have? They have really only had TWO true 3 point shooters for several years now... Jet and Dirk. Harris, Howard, Stack, etc... all were either crappy, or extremely inconsistent 3pt shooters. You obviously have no ing clue what you are talking about.

[Ghazi]

Duncan commands double teams from the post, IE far away from the 3point line, and is not an outside shooter himself, so your comparison is completely irrelevant. Dirk is another big time outside shooter, maybe the best considering his size and lack of defenders who can guard him, who does not command double teams far from the three point line ... in fact, guarding him 1on1 is probably the best way to beat the Mavericks, even if he goes off. Which is why a bunch of 3pt shooters on the Mavericks is foolish - they need slashers to play off of a marquee shooter like Dirk ...



Oh please ... officiating influences that series, but the Mavs were up 2-0 ... no matter of officiating would have cost a true champion that series.

The Heat were not a worthy champion at all that year. Mavs were better, Spurs were better, even the Suns were better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I"m sure Dirk going 4 for 16, 2 for 13 and 6 for 17 in 3 of the 4 losses to Golden State in 2007 didn't play a factor them losing at all.............

[stretch]

All I see are Mavsfans giving excuses for like 6 teammates and why they weren't good enough to help Dirk to a championship ... then turning around and saying 03 Parker and Manu were legitimate second options, or even Robinson

If you want to win, learn how to hold your ing team accountable...

You obviously are too ing stupid to comprehend what was said. What part of saying that Terry, Howard, and other players are incredibly inconsistent and were sucking at bad times, means we are making excuses? Fact is, they WERE NOT good enough. Shooting 20% in a playoff series is not going to help your team get past the first round, especially when the majority of your shots were open looks, or defended by one man. We have done nothing here EXCEPT hold the team accountable.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The Heat were not a worthy champion at all that year. Mavs were better, Spurs were better, even the Suns were better.

They won it regardless. Yes all 3 of those Western teams were better but the Heat got lucky with crap officiating and being hot and healthy at the right time.

[stretch]

but it's not like he had the trash David Robinson had either.

Yes, but we are not comparing Dirk to D-Rob. And D-Rob didn't win a le either, until he got Duncan... another legit star, who turned out to be the best PF of all time. I'd like to see what Dirk could have done with another legit star.

[Ghazi]

People exaggerate Dirk's playoff shortcomings. It's not as if the Mavs have had a championship roster the past 7-8 years and have came up short because of Dirk. The Mavs had very good teams in the early part of this decade but it was a smallball scheme with no emphasis on defense and rebounding, which is a formula proven to not win les.

The only two years the Mavs had a roster capable of winning a championship were 05-06 and 06-07. Again, 05-06 if a few calls WEREN'T made in favor of the Heat then Dirk's legacy and perception would be completely different. 06-07 was just the Warriors being the Mavs kryptonite, as was already established in the regular season.

Dirk averages 25/11 in the playoffs, he does not underperform in the playoffs at all. Dirk may not be good enough to be the best player on a championship team though, whereas Duncan is... Dirk is stuck in the limbo in between a #1 option and a #2 option.

[nsrammstein]

I"m sure Dirk going 4 for 16, 2 for 13 and 6 for 17 in 3 of the 4 losses to Golden State in 2007 didn't play a factor them losing at all.............

and every GS player shooting 80% FG from the field and baron davis shooting 96% from three pt field goal helped right? oh and im sure howard going 0-16 after the first 3qtrs helped too right?

[timvp]

Yes, but we are not comparing Dirk to D-Rob. And D-Rob didn't win a le either, until he got Duncan... another legit star, who turned out to be the best PF of all time. I'd like to see what Dirk could have done with another legit star.

Fair.

Although how is playing with a Hall of Fame point guard in his prime not considered playing with a legit star?

[stretch]

Is there a reason you neglect to mention Robinson was 37 years old, Ginobili was a completely different, less involved Ginobili back then, Parker was in his 2nd year, and Steve Kerr was 40, or did you intentionally list Manu and Robinson as if they were both in the prime of their career? There's no point in comparing the two when you put up a misleading argument.

Lets say that just for arguments sake Duncan's 03 supporting cast was slightly better than Dirk's 07 cast, but they are still comparable and close in ability. Does Duncan not make up for that with the fact the Spurs won a le and Dallas lost in the 1st round?

I'll ask this, if Dallas had Duncan instead of Dirk in 2007, would they have lost in the 1st round?

I am not saying that San Antonio's 03 squad was neccesarily as or more talented, but they had a much more balanced team, and a much better coach.

And with the way Avery was coaching, he probably would have put Duncan on the bench against the Warriors. Dude was a ing idiot to try to go small against them...

[nsrammstein]

Fair.

Although how is playing with a Hall of Fame point guard in his prime not considered playing with a legit star?

Nash didn't hit his prime until he went to PHX

[timvp]

Nash didn't play in a gimmick system that exaggerated his strengths and resulting stats until he went to PHX

Fixed.

[dirk4mvp]

Fixed.

In that case, Nash wasn't a legit star like you said.

[z0sa]

Obviously not. The Spurs know that as well as anyone. Then look at Golden State, and see the mass amounts of double and triple teams Dirk saw.

And where the are all these alleged three point shooters the Mavericks have? They have really only had TWO true 3 point shooters for several years now... Jet and Dirk. Harris, Howard, Stack, etc... all were either crappy, or extremely inconsistent 3pt shooters. You obviously have no ing clue what you are talking about.

You obviously didn't read what I was responding to, dimwit, nor my post.. but then again it's also obvious you're a couple of pennies short of two cents to add to the discussion.

Someone said Tim would be getting mauled on the Mavericks since they have no real 3pt shooters ... but that's completely irrelevant because the Mavs are built around a jumpshooter, not a low post player, and that's why they don't have as many three point marksmen as the spurs, nor have they had as many ...

Learn how to read.

[timvp]

In that case, Nash wasn't a legit star like you said.

He was basically the same player in Dallas. His skills just became more noticeable once he hit PHX.

[stretch]

Although how is playing with a Hall of Fame point guard in his prime not considered playing with a legit star?

Was he truly HOF material before going to the Suns? I think it's pretty clear that Nash benefited greatly from being in a system that utilized his abilities to the best. But before that, he was very good, but not quite great either.

[stretch]

He was basically the same player in Dallas. His skills just became more noticeable once he hit PHX.

Because the skills he had were being used more to their potential. Fact is, if he stayed playing the same way he was in Dallas, no way in does he win an MVP.

[z0sa]

You obviously are too ing stupid to comprehend what was said.

Oh my, did I call you on out on your stupid take? Or your excuse making? I'm sorry, I guess since you're such a pathetic loser of a fan I shouldn't bring up the cold heart facts.

What part of saying that Terry, Howard, and other players are incredibly inconsistent and were sucking at bad times, means we are making excuses? Fact is, they WERE NOT good enough.

Oh but that team sure were good enough to beat the defending champs at home in OT of Game 7 ... STFU, you're argument is circular in nature and full of ... "Oh because Miami ing owned us mentally we get to use that as a reason none of our guys who got us all this way are legitimate helpers for Dirk." That arguments got so many holes its called an excuse you whiny .

Shooting 20% in a playoff series is not going to help your team get past the first round, especially when the majority of your shots were open looks, or defended by one man. We have done nothing here EXCEPT hold the team accountable.

I could give a less about Dirk and the Mavericks absolutely HUGE fail against the Warriors, or their equally disheartening loss to the Hornets. I'm worried about the series they could have and SHOULD have taken: that 06 Miami series, the only one that matters now that we think about it with 20/20 vision.

[z0sa]

Was he truly HOF material before going to the Suns? I think it's pretty clear that Nash benefited greatly from being in a system that utilized his abilities to the best. But before that, he was very good, but not quite great either.

Nash is clearly = to a Parker, minimum, and with Finley, I think you can say you had the equivalent Manu OR Tony and Tim from our 05 run ... but continue crying and acting like Nash and Finley, who made all-star teams as Mavericks, were not legitimate supporting options.

BTW, Nellyball is sooo slow paced and half court oriented ... I mean, Nash never attempted a fast break under his Pop-like style.

Terry, Howard, and other players are incredibly inconsistent and were sucking at bad times

if that's not an excuse, I've never seen one They were "sucking at bad times" ... LOL, what a ing copout. You got rid of your legitimate second option, Nash, and replaced him with Terry; nobody's problem but the Mavs FO. Going on, Howard replaced Finley very nicely while he was abusing teams in the playoffs and playing Great D, but now that the whole team is about to fall apart, he was never a legitimate second option .

[stretch]

4 rings !!!