morbidly obese people

[DarkReign]

what are you, 12?

I don't know any mature adult that ridicules someone for having doping or drinking problems.

Man, youre constantly being a short-sighted emo jackass about this subject.

I am trying to argue from a societal perspective. Moreover, the way some addictions are villified and others are not, when there is no line of demarcation (that I can see) that says theyre different enough to warrant it.

Now, you may not hold these prejudices (such as thinking a crack-addict is a crackhead and the like), but society certainly does.

My question is, why?

[romad_20]

It doesnt say strangers. This goes for any sort of addiction, including food/eating. People that suffer from depression obviously "compensate" differently. So because one does heroin/drinks alcohol/smokes dope/pops pills and is ridiculed for it, people that eat away their problems are somehow different?

I dont get the distinction and I dont see the dividing line between the groups at all. Yet, its pretty obvious I am in the stark minority on the subject. Can anyone explain that fundamental difference to me?

Seriously.

Not that it matters, but I'm with you on the subject. I don't see the distinction that's being drawn between being addicted to food and being addicted to anything else.


I'm not even sure what the argument is about in this thread anymore. Are we arguing that fat people who put themselves in that situation shoudn't get disability or are we arguing about the way fat people are treated or both. Maybe something different?

[The Reckoning]

skinny, anglo smokers are an endangered species

[Blake]

I'm not even sure what the argument is about in this thread anymore. Are we arguing that fat people who put themselves in that situation shoudn't get disability or are we arguing about the way fat people are treated or both. Maybe something different?

I'm not even sure any more.

All I know for certain is that DR likes to throw friendly jabs at people regarding their deficiencies

[DarkReign]

I'm not even sure any more.

You were never sure where it started much less where it is right now.

All I know for certain is that DR likes to throw friendly jabs at friends/family regarding their deficiencies

FIFY

[Blake]

You were never sure where it started much less where it is right now.

I know where it started. Somewhere you jumped in with smoking addiction = obesity.

Brilliant.

[romad_20]

I'm not even sure any more.

All I know for certain is that DR likes to throw friendly jabs at people regarding their deficiencies

Well, I do understand his points about ribbing people who are your friends about certain things. It is a little easier to address issues like that through humor but still get your point across and I think that is totally acceptable, especially if you taking your own medicine in stride.

I do hate that people make so many excuses for something well in their control, especially when they show no sign of wanting to change. Its even more frustrating that the general population buys into those excuses. I think that may be where he's coming from but I don't want to put words into people's mouths.

[Blake]

Well, I do understand his points about ribbing people who are your friends about certain things. It is a little easier to address issues like that through humor but still get your point across and I think that is totally acceptable, especially if you taking your own medicine in stride.

I do hate that people make so many excuses for something well in their control, especially when they show no sign of wanting to change. Its even more frustrating that the general population buys into those excuses. I think that may be where he's coming from but I don't want to put words into people's mouths.

I can see ribbing your friend about being a bad driver.

Can't really see ribbing your friend about being fat.

[SpursWoman]

Well, I do understand his points about ribbing people who are your friends about certain things. It is a little easier to address issues like that through humor but still get your point across and I think that is totally acceptable, especially if you taking your own medicine in stride.

I do hate that people make so many excuses for something well in their control, especially when they show no sign of wanting to change. Its even more frustrating that the general population buys into those excuses. I think that may be where he's coming from but I don't want to put words into people's mouths.

Does this also apply to doing this to people you DON'T know? I mean, thinking you're being humorous and all?

[romad_20]

Does this also apply to doing this to people you DON'T know? I mean, thinking you're being humorous and all?

As in going up to people I don't know and giving them about being fat? I don't make it a habit to go up to people I don't know, period. Much less talking to them about being fat. So no.

Can't really see ribbing your friend about being fat.

Well, it really depends for me. If they had an accident and couldn't move for months or were on medication that made them gain weight, then no. If they were eating too much and chugging down sodas all day, then I would.

[Blake]

Well, it really depends for me. If they had an accident and couldn't move for months or were on medication that made them gain weight, then no. If they were eating too much and chugging down sodas all day, then I would.

since the topic is morbidly obese people I figured that's what we are talking about

[romad_20]

since the topic is morbidly obese people I figured that's what we are talking about

To tell you the truth, I would probably stop being their friend if they got morbidly obese. It would be no different than someone who couldn't stop using meth. At some point, not only is it your problem, it transfers to me because its gotten so out of hand. Since they can't go through on getting help, I would end the relationship, because its not a healthy one.

I guess I'm not an overly sympathetic person towards people who screw things up that are in their control. Out of their control is another story....

[Blake]

To tell you the truth, I would probably stop being their friend if they got morbidly obese. It would be no different than someone who couldn't stop using meth. At some point, not only is it your problem, it transfers to me because its gotten so out of hand. Since they can't go through on getting help, I would end the relationship, because its not a healthy one.

at least youre honest

[CuckingFunt]

Ha. Right, because youre above such assumptions. Seriously, what you said there sounds like the right answer, but its far from reality.

We all make assumptions about everything. You might not assume anything about an obese person, but there are other aspects in your life that you do. You just dont say it out loud in a group setting like a forum.

Dont pretend youre better than me or anyone else. Youre not "above it all" and nor is anyone else in this thread. Youre not a moral paragon and you never will be. Its impossible.

The only difference is that you dont categorize obesity under the same blanket of addiction that I do. Thats fine. Thats relevant. But please dont try and reach too far with what you think I am or am not. Youre liable to pull something.

No. The difference is that when I make those assumptions -- and, yes, in certain cir stances, despite my genuine intention to avoid doing so, I occasionally make snap judgments -- I don't justify my doing so with the rationale that it is somehow inherent to my nature as a human being to be a jerk. Or with the idea that since everyone else is a judgmental asshole, it's okay and understandable for me to be one, too.

[romad_20]

at least youre honest

I wouldn't want to be enabler, you know? If I just accept what you're doing, especially if its effecting me and others who know you, I would feel like I was perpetuating the situation.

[Nobody]

I was always very athletic as a kid. When I married, I was 195lbs and 7% bodyfat. After many injuries and a marriage that sucked the life out of me, I gained weight. I got to the point I avoided family functions - even thanksgiving, because i was horrified for people to see me that way. Yet, it was not enought to make me do something about it. Depression was the fuel for my over eating. I made it to 270lbs and was as miserable as a person could be. My marriage continued to suck and just added to my bad eating and sedentary life. One day in a Video Teleconference at work, I saw myself on the screen... sure i'd seen myself every day in the mirror, but this was the first time I "saw" myself. I knew I was fat... but seeing myself when I wasn't expecting to do so, was a slap in the face. I dedicated my life to fitness and ended up at 190 8% bodyfat. Odd, it did nothing to make my marriage better, so she is now gone ...

I took my new found love for fitness and became a certified trainer. I kept my day job and train people at 4am or on my lunch hour. Not because I enjoy getting up early, but i enjoy sharing what i've learned with people and helping them make lifestyle changes and improving their quality of life. If the person makes bank, I charge a high rate, if they don't make much, I practically do it for free. I'm not getting rich, but when i get an email from a client screaming they lost 5lbs, it's worth it.

As a former obese person, I feel I can confidently claim, they are not happy. But it's a downward spiral that is hard to stop. You gain 10 lbs... 20 lbs... go on a diet for a few weeks and lose 3lbs and can't even see a difference. So you quit. Now you're up 25, 30, 35lbs. Try a diet lose a few and can't see a difference... and it goes on and on.

The day i woke up, i thought "WTF did i do to myself?" Making fun of or ridiculing folks isn't the solution... neither is just saying that fat ass just needs to put the burger down. There are emotional issues driving a lot of the obesity - just as there is with people that do drugs, wake up in the morning swearing they'll never do it again, then are sticking a needle in their arm later that evening. Taxing, legislation, and ridicule are not the answers. Educating children at a young age on proper eating and exercise and how to deal with emotional stress, other than turning to food, is a start. And ridiculing an over weight person who is actually exercising is horrifying. But on a lighter note, i agree, overweight people should not wear spandex

[CuckingFunt]

In relative terms, compared to those who are truly morbidly obese, I have things easy. But a thread like this one makes me think (again) that it might not have taken much for my life to have gone just wrong enough to tip the balance toward morbid obesity, too. I empathize with those who reach that point and understand that with the right biological factors, some particularlized conditioning in youth, and a small bit of psychological (or physical) trauma, morbid obesity can easily sneak up on a person.

I'd fundamentally disagree that there's any societal value in riduculing the obese (or anyone who suffers from an addictive problem of that nature). I actually hope that I'm more prone to compassion and sensitivity because that's how I was raised and because that's how I'd prefer to be treated. The obese are, frankly, among the easiest sufferers of addictive/physiological disorders to spot -- they can't hide that problem by choosing not to make it known; they don't require any degree of significant investigation to uncover their woes. And that, I think, adds to the stigma and, in turn, the depressive qualities that follow obesity. Those who are obese don't, I think, need anyone to advise them that they've got a problem.

But unlike many other addictive disorders, I think many values in broader society tend to more readily promote obesity. The cost of cigarettes is relatively prohibitive; you have to find a drug dealer, come up with money, and avoid police detection in acquiring drugs. But the cost of foods that promote obesity is not prohibitive and the availability of such foods at bargain prices is not merely widespread -- it's thrust in our faces!

In thinking about this thread, I was reminded of a recent commercial that advertised that some family sized fried chicken meal could be obtained less expensively at KFC than in a grocery store. And if you stop to think about it, on the whole, less wholesome dietary choices tend to be the cheaper alternatives at virtually any meal. A 20-piece fried chicken dinner or a large pizza from a big box producer costs a whole lot less than salmon filets, a whole grain rice, and spinach.

Choosing to eat healthy foods tends, at least initially, to put a serious dent in someone's wallet -- far more costly than perpetuating a diet of things that have little or no nutritional benefit and substantial dietary downside.

People ask in this thread how the morbidly obese continue to eat as they do, and I think that it actually becomes more cost-effective to eat in that fashion than to try to make healthy choices. That's true even in terms of the quan ies in which food is purchased. Buy more and it costs less in relative terms -- almost everywhere. The bigger bag of potato chips has a per volume discount in pricing.

To an extent, I think this goes to some of what Ruff said earlier. I don't know that I'd call it hyperconsumerism necessarily, but it's clear that the packaging and advertising of the easiest forms of nourishment make purchasing and consumption of mass quan ies easier and, in some cases, more desireable than making more nutritious and less gluttonous choices.

My part of the story is germane to any of that only because I feel lucky to have never gone from obese to morbidly obese. But I don't think it's a long fall. And I don't think that prevention of that fall is something that can be aided by ridicule or scorn. Frankly, while I think there's no panacea, I do think that societal awareness of the problem would be a substantial first step towards its solution. I'm not a huge fan of governmental intervention in the private lives of individuals, but I do wonder if a marketplace that can suggest that gluttony is good, might benefit society as a whole to recalibrate its aims.

In the end, there are lots of deleterious personal choices involved in any problem like obesity, but I'm not sure it's absolutely true that those who suffer from such problems can be simply shamed into making different choices.

I agree with this completely. Especially with the idea that the slide from a few extra pounds, to a little chubby, to overweight, to obese, etc. probably happens a lot easier than many of us think. It's something that concerns me greatly in my own life, actually.

Since I was a kid, I've been blessed with luck in many areas. I have a natural fondness for activity, and have always enjoyed walking, hiking, swimming, etc. I also have a natural fondness for healthy foods. I snack like a rabbit, and even as a child, will pick carrot sticks over potato chips 10 times out of 10. When I was four, I fell in love with dance and was a very serious dancer until I was 20. I also loved swimming and was on the swim team in high school. Through all of that, I've developed a fast enough metabolism and healthy enough habits that I've been somewhat able to maintain my weight/figure without really trying.

However...

It has literally been without trying. At all. I am horribly undisciplined, HATE working out, never monitor my calories or pay attention to what I'm eating. I don't intentionally make smart decisions. Ever. At age 30, I'm becoming increasingly aware of the fact that this may all catch up to me, sooner rather than later.

I've already noticed that my asthma, a lifelong problem, has gotten increasingly worse since I stopped dancing regularly. My college campus, lovingly nicknamed Hills & Stairs University, often leaves me huffing and puffing, even without a weight problem. I know for a fact that, if I allow myself to get into worse shape, my decreased lung capacity would be prohibitive to my getting back into shape.

Furthermore, I am one of these "live to eat" people. I don't overeat, by any means. In fact, my one food rule is that I never starve myself and never stuff myself. But I love food. I love good food. My snacking preferences are healthy, but my meal preferences are rich and indulgent. I am definitely a good Sicilian girl, in that respect. In addition, I'm an incredibly busy person with little time or energy to cook for myself. When pressed for time, I eat a lot of fast crap (not fast food necessarily, but fast meals), even though I don't particularly like it.

While I'd like to think that I will continue to be/live healthfully, I've got a lot going against me as I get older. Weight problems are common in my family at a certain age (the only person I can think of who hasn't battled obesity starting in her 40s is damn near anorexic and, therefore, not the greatest of examples), diabetes is common, asthma is common and already something I battle. Between that and the fact that I've been so undisciplined for so long, I would not be surprised if weight was an issue that suddenly and unavoidably snuck up on me. I've been a glutton in a skinny body for so long that I really don't know that I'd be able to abandon my bad habits when/if the pounds start showing.

[DarkReign]

No. The difference is that when I make those assumptions -- and, yes, in certain cir stances, despite my genuine intention to avoid doing so, I occasionally make snap judgments -- I don't justify my doing so with the rationale that it is somehow inherent to my nature as a human being to be a jerk. Or with the idea that since everyone else is a judgmental asshole, it's okay and understandable for me to be one, too.

Hey, whatever. Works for you, I guess. Where Im from, sensitivity doesnt go very far. DrPhil and the his ilk are reserved for WestCoasters whereas here personal responsibility trumps everything.

I hold addicts of all kinds personally responsible for themselves. Doesnt mean I hate them or despise them (or randomnly call them names to complete strangers on the street as you, Blake and SW seem to keep repeating until its true), but my pity meter doesnt register much.

If that makes me a cruel/bad person, I dont give a . I put my opinion out there and most here thinks it stinks. Fine, I'll live with that.

Doesnt change the fact that obesity is like any other addiction. But since the affliction is so widespread and close to home, we coddle it instead of looking at it without bias.

Sounds to me like a couple of stories in this thread had a "moment of clarity" which I am sure you know is common with alcoholics. But I am sure thats the only similarity they share...

^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V

Quick transition...

When did we as a society become so chemically dependant? Never heard of depression in my early life. Then presciption drugs (Prozac in particular) were allowed to be advertised on television and suddenly half the population suffers from depression (while drug companies make billions, if not trillions).

Coincidence or actual medical condition? I mean, dying of a broken heart is a phrase thrown around a lot, and I would think it alludes to depression from loss. So the great story of Romeo and Juliet doesnt happen if Shakespeare's monkey-typist had a bottle of Lithium?

Sounds like a world I really dont want to live in, if some day they have a pill to combat unhappiness. What would music be like? Are we only a pill away from semi-world peace (minus needed resources, of course)?

My question, when did a human emotion become a disease? Is there a pill for love, too? How about anger...wait there is one. So am I to assume that we as humans only prescribe drugs for emotions we dont want to have?

I dont get that, honestly. I mean, if I had to self-diagnose (much like normal Americans do everyday by the millions), I am pretty damn sure I am clinically depressed. Does that mean I have an excuse to abuse myself now?

Makes no sense to me. I can clearly see a time in the future when everyone takes a certain pill to alleviate the stress from dwelling in the suck-ass world we created for ourselves. And we'll just delude our perception of it in an attempt to associate our condition with some inside, unseen evil force of nature, foregoing any personal responsibility we may have for our plight.

In all seriousness, when 1 in 7 Americans suffer from some form of depression (with the number rising every year), is it safe to say that it might not be an illness, but a natural byproduct of existing?

I dont know, I look at everything with the same question..."Who makes money?" I am quite sure about prozac's/whatever's effectiveness because as everyone else does in this thread, we all know about 6 people on some medication for some disorder they were diagnosed with because they didnt play well with other kids in school.

Anyway, have fun.

[SpursWoman]

n/m

[Grizzie]

so periodically i see these shows of super fat people and how they are so big that they can barely even move and leave the house and stuff like that, and every time they eat, they chow down like 6 triple cheeseburgers and 4 buckets of fries. if they are so incapable of moving and doing crap, how the do they have the money to afford all that?

Your tax dollars

[DarkReign]

@ SW

So I assume you agree that the over-eating of food is an addiction?

Then why is it "totally uncool" or "jerk"ish for me to categorize obese people in with meth-addicts? I dont get that.

Its a lack of discipline, plain and simple. When their weakness and powerlessness in life is shown to people (and we are all weak and powerless in some facet of our lives), some turn to drugs. Some turn to God. Some turn to food. Some turn to themselves, etc.

It isnt an uncorrectable situation and is most definitely self-induced. What separates the stigma of drugs from the stigma of food and why should everyone (including myself) abide such flimsy distinctions?

[CuckingFunt]

Damn. You're all over the place.

Hey, whatever. Works for you, I guess. Where Im from, sensitivity doesnt go very far. DrPhil and the his ilk are reserved for WestCoasters whereas here personal responsibility trumps everything.

Continually using Dr. Phil as your example of sensitivity is amusing, considering that he's become famous for a show that exploits people's personal problems for ratings.

Furthermore, I don't think that sensitivity goes very far anywhere. It's difficult, frankly. It's hard work to be emotionally sensitive, when compared to the relative ease of apathy. That was kind of the point of my initial comment (the one that started your ranting in the first place) -- we are an incredibly judgmental species. I think that's unfortunate. You've attempted to argue that we're justified in our judgment, but I still think it's inexcusable.

I hold addicts of all kinds personally responsible for themselves. Doesnt mean I hate them or despise them (or randomnly call them names to complete strangers on the street as you, Blake and SW seem to keep repeating until its true), but my pity meter doesnt register much.

If that makes me a cruel/bad person, I dont give a . I put my opinion out there and most here thinks it stinks. Fine, I'll live with that.

Doesnt change the fact that obesity is like any other addiction. But since the affliction is so widespread and close to home, we coddle it instead of looking at it without bias.

Sounds to me like a couple of stories in this thread had a "moment of clarity" which I am sure you know is common with alcoholics. But I am sure thats the only similarity they share...

I have mentioned specifically that I think it is essential to acknowledge personal responsibility. In this issue and others. But I see a tremendous difference between holding someone accountable for their actions, and subjecting someone to ridicule for their actions. Especially in the case of obesity, in which case it can be impossible for people to escape the assumptions that people make.

Since you're so fond of comparing smoking and obesity, let's examine the differences: when you light a cigarette, people make the assumption that you're a smoker and likely pass judgment about the fact you've chosen an unhealthy habit. Since you're in control of whether or not you light up in public, you're in control over whether or not people judge you accordingly. When someone is overweight, however, they walk down the street and have to deal with the assumption that they're stupid, out of control, self-destructive, lazy, awkward, incapable of functioning normally, insecure, asexual, unpopular, sad, undisciplined, in the way, untalented, constantly eating, and a burden. And, apparently, deserving of tough love. All from walking down the street, which is pretty much a necessary and unavoidable part of being alive.

If you can't see how these two situations are different, I really don't know what else to say.

Quick transition...

When did we as a society become so chemically dependant? Never heard of depression in my early life. Then presciption drugs (Prozac in particular) were allowed to be advertised on television and suddenly half the population suffers from depression (while drug companies make billions, if not trillions).

Coincidence or actual medical condition? I mean, dying of a broken heart is a phrase thrown around a lot, and I would think it alludes to depression from loss. So the great story of Romeo and Juliet doesnt happen if Shakespeare's monkey-typist had a bottle of Lithium?

Sounds like a world I really dont want to live in, if some day they have a pill to combat unhappiness. What would music be like? Are we only a pill away from semi-world peace (minus needed resources, of course)?

My question, when did a human emotion become a disease? Is there a pill for love, too? How about anger...wait there is one. So am I to assume that we as humans only prescribe drugs for emotions we dont want to have?

I dont get that, honestly. I mean, if I had to self-diagnose (much like normal Americans do everyday by the millions), I am pretty damn sure I am clinically depressed. Does that mean I have an excuse to abuse myself now?

Makes no sense to me. I can clearly see a time in the future when everyone takes a certain pill to alleviate the stress from dwelling in the suck-ass world we created for ourselves. And we'll just delude our perception of it in an attempt to associate our condition with some inside, unseen evil force of nature, foregoing any personal responsibility we may have for our plight.

In all seriousness, when 1 in 7 Americans suffer from some form of depression (with the number rising every year), is it safe to say that it might not be an illness, but a natural byproduct of existing?

I dont know, I look at everything with the same question..."Who makes money?" I am quite sure about prozac's/whatever's effectiveness because as everyone else does in this thread, we all know about 6 people on some medication for some disorder they were diagnosed with because they didnt play well with other kids in school.

Anyway, have fun.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with new abilities to treat legitimate illnesses, as well as pharmaceutical companies looking to get rich off of bull like Restless Leg Syndrome. The recent trend towards overmedication is one that I find quite damaging, though I don't really know what it has to do with this conversation.

[FromWayDowntown]

@ SW

So I assume you agree that the over-eating of food is an addiction?

Then why is it "totally uncool" or "jerk"ish for me to categorize obese people in with meth-addicts? I dont get that.

Its a lack of discipline, plain and simple. When their weakness and powerlessness in life is shown to people (and we are all weak and powerless in some facet of our lives), some turn to drugs. Some turn to God. Some turn to food. Some turn to themselves, etc.

It isnt an uncorrectable situation and is most definitely self-induced. What separates the stigma of drugs from the stigma of food and why should everyone (including myself) abide such flimsy distinctions?

Again, I qualify as clinically obese and have for almost all of my life. I can run for miles and I have an athletic history that is significant, but no matter how accomplished I have ever been as an athlete, there's been virtually no point in my life when I didn't qualify as clinically obese. The new year has brought a lifestyle change for me -- one that includes working out 5-6 times a week for at least an hour of cardio each day. The trainer who developed my program informed me that, at best, with good diet habits and continued commitment to the workout plan, I can expect to reach a weight that would drop me from clinically obese to clinically overweight -- and only barely.

Where, exactly, is the lack of discipline in any of that?

[Kori Ellis]

^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V^V

Quick transition...

When did we as a society become so chemically dependant? Never heard of depression in my early life. Then presciption drugs (Prozac in particular) were allowed to be advertised on television and suddenly half the population suffers from depression (while drug companies make billions, if not trillions).

Coincidence or actual medical condition? I mean, dying of a broken heart is a phrase thrown around a lot, and I would think it alludes to depression from loss. So the great story of Romeo and Juliet doesnt happen if Shakespeare's monkey-typist had a bottle of Lithium?

Sounds like a world I really dont want to live in, if some day they have a pill to combat unhappiness. What would music be like? Are we only a pill away from semi-world peace (minus needed resources, of course)?

My question, when did a human emotion become a disease? Is there a pill for love, too? How about anger...wait there is one. So am I to assume that we as humans only prescribe drugs for emotions we dont want to have?

I dont get that, honestly. I mean, if I had to self-diagnose (much like normal Americans do everyday by the millions), I am pretty damn sure I am clinically depressed. Does that mean I have an excuse to abuse myself now?

Makes no sense to me. I can clearly see a time in the future when everyone takes a certain pill to alleviate the stress from dwelling in the suck-ass world we created for ourselves. And we'll just delude our perception of it in an attempt to associate our condition with some inside, unseen evil force of nature, foregoing any personal responsibility we may have for our plight.

In all seriousness, when 1 in 7 Americans suffer from some form of depression (with the number rising every year), is it safe to say that it might not be an illness, but a natural byproduct of existing?

I dont know, I look at everything with the same question..."Who makes money?" I am quite sure about prozac's/whatever's effectiveness because as everyone else does in this thread, we all know about 6 people on some medication for some disorder they were diagnosed with because they didnt play well with other kids in school.

Anyway, have fun.

This part of your post, I agree with and I have ranted about it here before. The number of people that get anti-depression medication in our country is astronomical and largely unnecessary. Somewhere along the line, people forgot that it's okay to be sad sometimes. Sometimes stuff happens that SHOULD make you sad. So just because that happens doesn't mean that you should run to the psychiatrist and get a prescription.

I believe that the number of people that are actually in need of medication for depression (and kids with ADD for that matter) is very low. But the number of people that get prescriptions for it is just mind-boggling.

At one point when I lived in Los Angeles, I was the only person in my office not on anti-depressants. PULLLLLLLEASSE!

I hope soon people start changing their thinking on this. Sometimes people are sad. Sometimes kids are hyper. And you know what? That's okay... it's *normal*.

[/rare rant from me]

[DarkReign]

Continually using Dr. Phil as your example of sensitivity is amusing, considering that he's become famous for a show that exploits people's personal problems for ratings.

Furthermore, I don't think that sensitivity goes very far anywhere. It's difficult, frankly. It's hard work to be emotionally sensitive, when compared to the relative ease of apathy. That was kind of the point of my initial comment (the one that started your ranting in the first place) -- we are an incredibly judgmental species. I think that's unfortunate. You've attempted to argue that we're justified in our judgment, but I still think it's inexcusable.

Ah, well, that was crystal clear. Agreed on all points, but I am sure you dont care.

But I see a tremendous difference between holding someone accountable for their actions, and subjecting someone to ridicule for their actions.

..with friends and family? Really? Well, we're different people...big news, I know.

Since you're in control of whether or not you light up in public, you're in control over whether or not people judge you accordingly. When someone is overweight, however, they walk down the street and have to deal with the assumption that they're stupid, [sic]. All from walking down the street, which is pretty much a necessary and unavoidable part of being alive.

If you can't see how these two situations are different, I really don't know what else to say.

I can see the difference plainly. But it does not absolve myself or the overweight person of any personal responsibility to our plight, is my point.

Sure, I can hide/sneak/lie about my smoking while an overweight person has no such avenue of deceit in a public setting.

I am going to sum up my argument here. At first, it was about obesity being akin to smoking/drug use/whatever addiction. I was then given a plethora of excuses why people over-eat. Thats what they were....excuses.

Theyre depressed. Lost a loved one. Divorce, etc.

While that should be a temporary remorse, I cannot believe that 63% of Americans are in a constant state of depression.

It is my belief that a majority of those people just plain like to feel sorry for themselves for selfish reasons or just plain like to eat and thats that. Now we have an entire field of scientific study devoted to making a profit off of America's inability to problem solve.

To me, its just another indictment on a lazy people who over-consume at every chance because thats what their idea of success translates to (fast cars, big house, private jet...or more realisticly, substandard income homes who feel the need to go to their local RentACenter and make weekly payments on a big screen television theyll never own...you get the idea, consumerism).

Whether they observed those habits or not thru media of some sort or thru personal discovery, being rich and the envy of everyone else seems (to me) to be the lofty, unattainable goal most delusional Americans partake in. Maybe its more modest expectations like holding down a good job, or having a great wife and family, etc. When life crushes their hopes and dreams like life usually does, their inability to deal with the harshness of reality endeavors down a path of self-destruction thru various means of mitigation (chemical or otherwise).

If I am right about that, then I refuse to participate in the pity party because I dwell in this world too, life kicks my ass all the time, yet I go way out of my way to never make excuses for my behavior, my situation or my choices.

I expect the same from others as well, and have been surprisingly disappointed. All I hear is excuses, that this is a medical condition to be diagnosed and treated by an ever-expanding healthcare industry more self-interested than the most drug-addicted addict we have ever encountered.

And people in general are buying this line of bull because some PhD says its so (when there are an equal number of other PhDs who vehemently disagree), and it pisses me off.

Thus, this thread.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with new abilities to treat legitimate illnesses, as well as pharmaceutical companies looking to get rich off of bull like Restless Leg Syndrome. The recent trend towards overmedication is one that I find quite damaging, though I don't really know what it has to do with this conversation.

Depression and its link to obesity. 1 in 7 Americans are clinically depressed, yet 63% are overweight. Despite that, I am painted as the heartless bas in this thread for poking fun at people I love and care about and for not partaking in the mindless agreement of overweight people suffering from some malady other than gluttony.