Andrew Bynum is playing worse this year than last

[Zee Laker]

Since we know Sterns is gonna make sure the Lakers are in the Finals this year.You Laker fans better hope Bi-num doesn't cost you any games with his undependable free throw shooting like Shaq did.

How is Stren gonna make sure of that? injure TMac and Manu again?

oh and you so right about Bynums FT. He is shooting 68% compared to someone like Duncan who is shooting 70% or Dwight Howard who is at 58% for the current season

[Allanon]

1. Perkins is bigger than you think. Basketball players don't rebound with the top of their heads.

Kendrick Perkins:
Standing Reach: 9' 4.5"
Wingspan: 7' 6.5"

Andrew Bynum:
Standing Reach: 9' 4"
Wingspan: 7' 6"

I'm sorry for the bad news.

1) That's Bynum's reach at age 17. He's grown since then.
2) Basketball players don't rebound standing on the ground. Basketball players don't shoot or block standing on the ground.

Bynum has a 33 inch vertical, Perkins has like a 5 inch vertical. Huge Advantage Bynum.

Have you watched the game? With 4 minutes to go, Gasol was 4-10 FG and 10 points - a completely non-factor. He scored all those later shots, in a 2 minutes stretch, from Kobe's dribble drives - that the C's failed to stop - , Bynum had nothing to do with it. You're just making up things.

What are you talking about? The Celtics can choose to stop 1 player, Pau or Bynum but not both. Celtics stopped Bynum but let Pau score 20 points on 50% shooting. As I said, the Celtics can stop 1 but not both. That was like the first game Bynum played in the final minutes of the 4th quarter. Celtics had to pick their poison and lost.

3. Perkins was playing that game with a dislocated shoulder. However, he didn't have much of a problem with Bynum, like he never had in the past. Bynum struggles with bigger, fundamentally solid post defenders, like Perkins.

Ah, I see, Perkins played well but it was KG that sucked. KG wasn't injured but he let Pau get 20 points on 50% shooting. That's cool too, either way, the C's can stop one but not both.

Pau/Bynum left them in such a funk the Celtics went and lost like 7 games out of 9 after losing only 2 games all season up to then.

Sounds crazy, I know but that certainly wasn't "made up", just check the record. Check the Celtics boards, it was all doomsday and "fire Danny" for weeks after the meeting with Pau/Bynum.

[Many PackYao]

How is Stren gonna make sure of that? injure TMac and Manu again?

oh and you so right about Bynums FT. He is shooting 68% compared to someone like Duncan who is shooting 70% or Dwight Howard who is at 58% for the current season

What I meant by Stern making sure they get there is...
The Lakers are already good enough without the refs help, yet they usually get the benefit of the doubt on questionable calls.The refs just ain't going to call a Laker game fairly unless the Celtics are the other team.

Put Bi-num at the ft line during crunch time of a close game against the Spurs or the Celtics in a playoff game and see what happens.
Maybe Phil won't let that scenario happen.

Duncan makes his when they count the most.

Dwight is overrated anyway.

[Zee Laker]

Put Bi-num at the ft line during crunch time of a close game against the Spurs or the Celtics in a playoff game and see what happens.
Maybe Phil won't let that scenario happen.

Hes yet to play a single playoffs game so we have no idea. He could as clutch as or poop himself under pressure. We will just have to wait and see

[Many PackYao]

Hes yet to play a single playoffs game so we have no idea. He could as clutch as or poop himself under pressure. We will just have to wait and see

I'm willing to bet,"poop on himself".

[mogrovejo]

1) That's Bynum's reach at age 17. He's grown since then.
2) Basketball players don't rebound standing on the ground. Basketball players don't shoot or block standing on the ground.

Bynum has a 33 inch vertical, Perkins has like a 5 inch vertical. Huge Advantage Bynum.




What are you talking about? The Celtics can choose to stop 1 player, Pau or Bynum but not both. Celtics stopped Bynum but let Pau score 20 points on 50% shooting. As I said, the Celtics can stop 1 but not both. That was like the first game Bynum played in the final minutes of the 4th quarter. Celtics had to pick their poison and lost.



Ah, I see, Perkins played well but it was KG that sucked. KG wasn't injured but he let Pau get 20 points on 50% shooting. That's cool too, either way, the C's can stop one but not both.

Pau/Bynum left them in such a funk the Celtics went and lost like 7 games out of 9 after losing only 2 games all season up to then.

Sounds crazy, I know but that certainly wasn't "made up", just check the record. Check the Celtics boards, it was all doomsday and "fire Danny" for weeks after the meeting with Pau/Bynum.

1. Now you're saying a different thing. Good we put the Bynum/Gasol are so much bigger than Perkins/KG talk to a definitive rest. Those measurements are also from Perkins rookie year and he also came out directly from high school. Leaping ability is not really that important. The C's are the best rebounding team in the league, the Lakers, not so much.

2. Again, Pau deserves all the props in the world for coming out big in the last minutes after being cold the entire game, but I don't see why Bynum has anything to do with it. Tell me a single play where Bynum was important and why. I'd have to check the box-score, but I believe all of those shots were assisted by Kobe. Kobe forcing KG to leave Pau to help and assisting before the help to the helper was the key.

3. It's the regular season, calm down. Teams go on slumps all the time.

4. Really? Not on the board I read. I wouldn't be surprised though, most fans are reactionary and over-emotional.

[DrHouse]

1. Now you're saying a different thing. Good we put the Bynum/Gasol are so much bigger than Perkins/KG talk to a definitive rest. Those measurements are also from Perkins rookie year and he also came out directly from high school. Leaping ability is not really that important. The C's are the best rebounding team in the league, the Lakers, not so much.

2. Again, Pau deserves all the props in the world for coming out big in the last minutes after being cold the entire game, but I don't see why Bynum has anything to do with it. Tell me a single play where Bynum was important and why. I'd have to check the box-score, but I believe all of those shots were assisted by Kobe. Kobe forcing KG to leave Pau to help and assisting before the help to the helper was the key.

3. It's the regular season, calm down. Teams go on slumps all the time.

4. Really? Not on the board I read. I wouldn't be surprised though, most fans are reactionary and over-emotional.

It's actually more subtle than you would think.

Bynum changes the defensive assignments that used to favor the Celtics immensely.

It forces Garnett to have to play man defense on Gasol instead of free safety like he was able to do on Odom. It also limits Perkins ability to disrupt on the offensive glass. In addition, bench players like Powe and BBD who killed LAL last season are rendered ineffective as they cannot score over Bynum.

The Celtic's problem against LAL is offense. With Kobe playing on Rondo it means role players HAVE to step it up if they are going to keep pace with the Lakers offensively. Without Posey and PJ Brown the Celtics will continue to struggle against LAL's depth.

[mogrovejo]

KG guards the best big man of the opponent team plenty of times and still gives help. Thibodeau's system is not a traditional help and recover defence, that doesn't have any impact - I mean, see for how many points Pau and Bynum combined until those last minutes from Gasol.

Rondo's struggles have nothing to do with Kobe guarding him. People should stop believing that. Rondo is just inconsistent, he's a 22 years old in his 2nd season as a starter. Lots of teams defend him the same way and sometimes it's completely useless.

Depth? Again? Haven't you learn nothing with last season? Depth in the play-offs is over-rated. Anyway, the C's have already said they won't go to the play-offs with this roster.

Anyway, nice for the Lakers having all those things going on for them and winning a home game in the final 4 minutes.

Oh, of course the Lakers are an offensive juggernaut. We heard about that a lot last season already. Hopefully they can improve their defence and rebounding till the play-offs.

[DrHouse]

KG guards the best big man of the opponent team plenty of times and still gives help. Thibodeau's system is not a traditional help and recover defence, that doesn't have any impact - I mean, see for how many points Pau and Bynum combined until those last minutes from Gasol.

Rondo's struggles have nothing to do with Kobe guarding him. People should stop believing that. Rondo is just inconsistent, he's a 22 years old in his 2nd season as a starter. Lots of teams defend him the same way and sometimes it's completely useless.

Depth? Again? Haven't you learn nothing with last season? Depth in the play-offs is over-rated. Anyway, the C's have already said they won't go to the play-offs with this roster.

Anyway, nice for the Lakers having all those things going on for them and winning a home game in the final 4 minutes.

Oh, of course the Lakers are an offensive juggernaut. We heard about that a lot last season already. Hopefully they can improve their defence and rebounding till the play-offs.

You of all people should know how much you need depth in the playoffs because without Posey and PJ Brown the Celtics don't win an NBA le last season. Now they don't have either player and are forced to rely on Tony Allen, BBD, and Eddie House. Furthermore there is no guarantee the Celtics acquire solid bench players as both PJ Brown and Mourning have announcement their permanent retirement. And it's not like the Celtics have any attractive trading pieces anymore unless they are willing to part with Ray Allen. Tell me who are they going to trade to bring in some bench help? What FA's are available?

IMHO the Celtics could very easily not even make it back to the NBA Finals if CLE has HCA over them this season.

[mogrovejo]

Yeah, I also agree Cleveland is our most worrying opponent, as they were last season. With or without HCA, they're good enough to beat the C's.

Depth? In the play-offs you need 8 guys who can play and 4 others to waive towels and scream like crazy. Last year Lakers bench was supposed to be the better one, but in the play-offs you need 3 guys that can reinforce the starters, not a unit able to produce.

Don't worry, someone will be signed - PJ and Cassell weren't on the roster 1 year ago.

[DrHouse]

Yeah, I also agree Cleveland is our most worrying opponent, as they were last season. With or without HCA, they're good enough to beat the C's.

Depth? In the play-offs you need 8 guys who can play and 4 others to waive towels and scream like crazy. Last year Lakers bench was supposed to be the better one, but in the play-offs you need 3 guys that can reinforce the starters, not a unit able to produce.

Don't worry, someone will be signed - PJ and Cassell weren't on the roster 1 year ago.

That's what I'm talking about. The 8 man rotation. The 3-4 guys that come off the bench that can pick up the slack when the starters aren't producing. The Celtics lost 2 key contributors and did not replace them with quality players. They replaced battle tested veterans with inexperienced and inconsistent rookies.

You keep saying someone will be signed.....who? It's not so easy to replenish the bench, the Lakers struggled with it during their 3-peat years. When you find those rare role players like Horry and Posey you hold onto them for dear life. I still think LAL made a big mistake in letting Horry go when they did, he had at least 2 more seasons of quality play left in him.

Ainge was brilliant in getting KG and RA to BOS, but he really screwed the pooch by letting Posey walk.

[Allanon]

1. Now you're saying a different thing. Good we put the Bynum/Gasol are so much bigger than Perkins/KG talk to a definitive rest. Those measurements are also from Perkins rookie year and he also came out directly from high school. Leaping ability is not really that important. The C's are the best rebounding team in the league, the Lakers, not so much.

Hahah, I was talking height and you throw in reach and then you tell ME that I'm talking about something different? Fact of the matter is Bynum's size length and jumping ability gives him at least a foot advantage on Perkins.

2. Again, Pau deserves all the props in the world for coming out big in the last minutes after being cold the entire game, but I don't see why Bynum has anything to do with it. Tell me a single play where Bynum was important and why. I'd have to check the box-score, but I believe all of those shots were assisted by Kobe. Kobe forcing KG to leave Pau to help and assisting before the help to the helper was the key.

Bynum was stopped, but the Celtics couldn't stop Pau. Bynum's importance is being on the court, the Celtics have to pick their poison, are they going to let Bynum go off or Pau go off.

If the Celtics try to stop Pau the next time, Bynum will go off for 20 points on 50% shooting.

Celtics aren't big enough to guard BOTH Pau and Bynum, only one or the other.

3. It's the regular season, calm down. Teams go on slumps all the time.

I don't know of any elite teams going on a 7 of 9 losing slump. Lakers loss rattled them pretty bad.

[Rapper]

Andrew Bynum doesn't deserve a starter

LA should put Gasol as the Center and Odom at PF position

[sedale threatt]

Is Duncan hurt or just getting outplayed by young Andrew Bynum?

[LEONARD]

Poor SpursDynasty...

[turiaf for president]

watch out for deandre jordan. he was a lottery pick in the works when he was in college but stock slipped. he had 10 boards and 6 blocks in his 1st start on monday and now 23 12 and 4 blocks

damn DJ... what a beast.

jordan went for 20 boards tonight against the 3rd leading rebounder in the league in biedrins.

im telling you, the clippers found a nice player in the 2nd round.

[Ghazi]

Hahah, I was talking height and you throw in reach and then you tell ME that I'm talking about something different? Fact of the matter is Bynum's size length and jumping ability gives him at least a foot advantage on Perkins.



Bynum was stopped, but the Celtics couldn't stop Pau. Bynum's importance is being on the court, the Celtics have to pick their poison, are they going to let Bynum go off or Pau go off.

If the Celtics try to stop Pau the next time, Bynum will go off for 20 points on 50% shooting.

Celtics aren't big enough to guard BOTH Pau and Bynum, only one or the other.


I don't know of any elite teams going on a 7 of 9 losing slump. Lakers loss rattled them pretty bad.

Well going 35-2 in the other 37 games is pretty damn convincing.

[mogrovejo]

Hahah, I was talking height and you throw in reach and then you tell ME that I'm talking about something different? Fact of the matter is Bynum's size length and jumping ability gives him at least a foot advantage on Perkins.



Bynum was stopped, but the Celtics couldn't stop Pau. Bynum's importance is being on the court, the Celtics have to pick their poison, are they going to let Bynum go off or Pau go off.

If the Celtics try to stop Pau the next time, Bynum will go off for 20 points on 50% shooting.

Celtics aren't big enough to guard BOTH Pau and Bynum, only one or the other.

About the size issue, I don't know what to say. First you said that Perkins and Garnett are too small; then you learned that Garnett is actually a 7 ft and Perkins is basically one as well, as he has no neck, so suddenly it becomes about leaping ability... now they are big enough to guard 1 of them but not both.

Look, I don't like to sound y, but Perkins is a better rebounder than Bynum; he dominated Bynum in all their matchups so far... you keep talking about the Christmas game, but you've yet to explain how exactly Bynum influenced the outcome or impacted Gasol's production. After 40 minutes they were combining for 19 points. That's not a lot, is it? In the last minutes Kobe and Gasol were great, played the 2 man game very well, C's perimeter defenders failed the execution... but that's all, what was exactly the importance of Bynum on those plays? Oh well, we'll see, I guess, but Garnett is the best defensive player in the game, Perkins one of the top low post defenders in the league and the C's are the best rebounding team and to be completeley honest, there are other frontcourts that worry me a lot more than the Lakers one.

If you are so certain that the C's can't stop both Gasol and Bynum, well, one can only hope you're wrong. Anyway, I compliment your assertiveness and confidence.

I don't know of any elite teams going on a 7 of 9 losing slump.

The '72 Lakers lost 4 of 6 after their 33 game streak was broken. The '08 Rockets lost 5 of 8 after their 22 game streak was broken. The '71 Bucks lost 5 of 6 after winning 20, and so forth.

OTOH, maybe you're right and the Celtics aren't an elite team. You're clearly a great basketball mind.

[turiaf for president]

08 rockets an elite team?

[2Cleva]

Garnett is one of the best defenders in the game but he makes Boston's D really go when he can play safety, helping wherver is needed and playing the passing lanes.

Against LA, he is forced to guard a man who can score against him and Boston has to play straight up instead of helping. That's where having Bynum and Gasol will prove its worth. That was evident in the Christmas game and Bynum wasn't even rolling then.

[mogrovejo]

People should understand Boston's defensive philosophy.

Teams that give the C's problems are teams like Charlotte, Atlanta, Utah, etc. It's not because they have 2 quality bigs, rather another issue. Garnett is frequently guarding the best big of the opponent (more often than not), that's not a problem. Boston always defends the post straight up.

[Allanon]

About the size issue, I don't know what to say. First you said that Perkins and Garnett are too small; then you learned that Garnett is actually a 7 ft and Perkins is basically one as well, as he has no neck, so suddenly it becomes about leaping ability

Nope, I stick by it, Perkins is too small to guard Bynum, he needs help.

now they are big enough to guard 1 of them but not both.

I've said this all along. Celtics can stop either Pau or Bynum but not both.

Look, I don't like to sound y, but Perkins is a better rebounder than Bynum; he dominated Bynum in all their matchups so far...

Bynum had 9 points, Perkins had 8 points? Why are you making up this "dominance"?

you keep talking about the Christmas game, but you've yet to explain how exactly Bynum influenced the outcome or impacted Gasol's production. After 40 minutes they were combining for 19 points.

Why do you stop at 40 minutes? NBA games are 48 minutes. Pau+Bynum scored 29 points.

That's not a lot, is it? In the last minutes Kobe and Gasol were great, played the 2 man game very well, C's perimeter defenders failed the execution... but that's all, what was exactly the importance of Bynum on those plays?

Being on the court. With Bynum on the court, you can't help off 1 guy to defend another. The Celtics last year had to deal with a much smaller guy in Odom. Pau + Odom averaged like what ... 15 points in the Finals combined? Celtics have alot more to deal with in Bynum. His shot-blocking also discourages guys like Rondo from driving at will. Rondo was 3 of 11 in that game. That is his importance.

Of course, this is my opinion only. I know you believe in your Celtics and I believe in my Lakers. We'll see in June hopefully.

The '72 Lakers lost 4 of 6 after their 33 game streak was broken. The '08 Rockets lost 5 of 8 after their 22 game streak was broken. The '71 Bucks lost 5 of 6 after winning 20, and so forth.

OTOH, maybe you're right and the Celtics aren't an elite team. You're clearly a great basketball mind.

None of them lost 7 of 9.

[DrHouse]

About the size issue, I don't know what to say. First you said that Perkins and Garnett are too small; then you learned that Garnett is actually a 7 ft and Perkins is basically one as well, as he has no neck, so suddenly it becomes about leaping ability... now they are big enough to guard 1 of them but not both.

Look, I don't like to sound y, but Perkins is a better rebounder than Bynum; he dominated Bynum in all their matchups so far... you keep talking about the Christmas game, but you've yet to explain how exactly Bynum influenced the outcome or impacted Gasol's production. After 40 minutes they were combining for 19 points. That's not a lot, is it? In the last minutes Kobe and Gasol were great, played the 2 man game very well, C's perimeter defenders failed the execution... but that's all, what was exactly the importance of Bynum on those plays? Oh well, we'll see, I guess, but Garnett is the best defensive player in the game, Perkins one of the top low post defenders in the league and the C's are the best rebounding team and to be completeley honest, there are other frontcourts that worry me a lot more than the Lakers one.

If you are so certain that the C's can't stop both Gasol and Bynum, well, one can only hope you're wrong. Anyway, I compliment your assertiveness and confidence.

The '72 Lakers lost 4 of 6 after their 33 game streak was broken. The '08 Rockets lost 5 of 8 after their 22 game streak was broken. The '71 Bucks lost 5 of 6 after winning 20, and so forth.

OTOH, maybe you're right and the Celtics aren't an elite team. You're clearly a great basketball mind.

Perkins is not a better rebounder than Bynum. Bynum can jump higher and outreach Perkins on any rebound that's nearby. Unless Perk has inside position he's not outrebounding Bynum. And he certainly didn't dominate the last matchup. I'd say both neutralized each other, but Bynum has really started playing in another gear lately and I'd say if the Lakers-Celtics played right now he'd outplay him.

Bynum doesn't have to score a single pt for his presence to be felt. He changes all of the matchups that used to favor the Celts greatly into a wash or Laker advantage. He intimidates Allen, Pierce, and Rondo from driving into the lane for easy jumpshots. Quite frankly the Celtic's offense sputtered in the 4th when the Lakers locked down and that cost them the game. If Garnet wasn't on fire from the perimeter the final score would have been much worse.

And none of this talk really matters. The Celtics are not beating the Cavs unless they can get HCA over them. Thus far they haven't come close to being able to beat CLE on the road.

[stretch]

Bynum > Perkins

[mystargtr34]

Perkins is not a better rebounder than Bynum. Bynum can jump higher and outreach Perkins on any rebound that's nearby. Unless Perk has inside position he's not outrebounding Bynum. And he certainly didn't dominate the last matchup. I'd say both neutralized each other, but Bynum has really started playing in another gear lately and I'd say if the Lakers-Celtics played right now he'd outplay him.

Bynum doesn't have to score a single pt for his presence to be felt. He changes all of the matchups that used to favor the Celts greatly into a wash or Laker advantage. He intimidates Allen, Pierce, and Rondo from driving into the lane for easy jumpshots. Quite frankly the Celtic's offense sputtered in the 4th when the Lakers locked down and that cost them the game. If Garnet wasn't on fire from the perimeter the final score would have been much worse.

And none of this talk really matters. The Celtics are not beating the Cavs unless they can get HCA over them. Thus far they haven't come close to being able to beat CLE on the road.

Thats the idea of boxing out. What makes Perkins such a good rebounder is not only his length, but more so his wide body. As soon as he puts a body on you its over, if you try get it its more than likely a over the top foul, even for a guy as tall as Bynum.

Again, Bynum may be 7'0" to Perkins 6'10", but you dont rebound or block shots with the top of your head like mogrovejo said. Perkins essentially plays bigger than Bynum, a 9'4.5" standing reach to 9'4". Both came out of High School. Allanon made the case Bynum has grown since then, well he was 6'11" without shoes when they drafted him, i dont think hes much over 7'0" now if at all, so there isnt much of an advantage either way.

Yea Bynum is more athletic, but you can make the case that it evens out with Perkins considerable bulk advantage.

Its hardly a mismatch.