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Yeah, Austin needs $875,000 for a disc golf course, WTF are Republicans doing trying to block quality pork like that?
Just get out the way GOP, we real Americans have a country to put back together.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/op...gman.html?_r=1
As the debate over President Obama’s economic stimulus plan gets under way, one thing is certain: many of the plan’s opponents aren’t arguing in good faith. Conservatives really, really don’t want to see a second New Deal, and they certainly don’t want to see government activism vindicated. So they are reaching for any stick they can find with which to beat proposals for increased government spending.
Some of these arguments are obvious cheap shots. John Boehner, the House minority leader, has already made headlines with one such shot: looking at an $825 billion plan to rebuild infrastructure, sustain essential services and more, he derided a minor provision that would expand Medicaid family-planning services — and called it a plan to “spend hundreds of millions of dollars on contraceptives.”
But the obvious cheap shots don’t pose as much danger to the Obama administration’s efforts to get a plan through as arguments and assertions that are equally fraudulent but can seem superficially plausible to those who don’t know their way around economic concepts and numbers. So as a public service, let me try to debunk some of the major antistimulus arguments that have already surfaced. Any time you hear someone reciting one of these arguments, write him or her off as a dishonest flack.
First, there’s the bogus talking point that the Obama plan will cost $275,000 per job created. Why is it bogus? Because it involves taking the cost of a plan that will extend over several years, creating millions of jobs each year, and dividing it by the jobs created in just one of those years.
It’s as if an opponent of the school lunch program were to take an estimate of the cost of that program over the next five years, then divide it by the number of lunches provided in just one of those years, and assert that the program was hugely wasteful, because it cost $13 per lunch. (The actual cost of a free school lunch, by the way, is $2.57.)
The true cost per job of the Obama plan will probably be closer to $100,000 than $275,000 — and the net cost will be as little as $60,000 once you take into account the fact that a stronger economy means higher tax receipts.
Next, write off anyone who asserts that it’s always better to cut taxes than to increase government spending because taxpayers, not bureaucrats, are the best judges of how to spend their money.
Here’s how to think about this argument: it implies that we should shut down the air traffic control system. After all, that system is paid for with fees on air tickets — and surely it would be better to let the flying public keep its money rather than hand it over to government bureaucrats. If that would mean lots of midair collisions, hey, stuff happens.
The point is that nobody really believes that a dollar of tax cuts is always better than a dollar of public spending. Meanwhile, it’s clear that when it comes to economic stimulus, public spending provides much more bang for the buck than tax cuts — and therefore costs less per job created (see the previous fraudulent argument) — because a large fraction of any tax cut will simply be saved.
This suggests that public spending rather than tax cuts should be the core of any stimulus plan. But rather than accept that implication, conservatives take refuge in a nonsensical argument against public spending in general.
Finally, ignore anyone who tries to make something of the fact that the new administration’s chief economic adviser has in the past favored monetary policy over fiscal policy as a response to recessions.
It’s true that the normal response to recessions is interest-rate cuts from the Fed, not government spending. And that might be the best option right now, if it were available. But it isn’t, because we’re in a situation not seen since the 1930s: the interest rates the Fed controls are already effectively at zero.
That’s why we’re talking about large-scale fiscal stimulus: it’s what’s left in the policy arsenal now that the Fed has shot its bolt. Anyone who cites old arguments against fiscal stimulus without mentioning that either doesn’t know much about the subject — and therefore has no business weighing in on the debate — or is being deliberately obtuse.
These are only some of the fundamentally fraudulent antistimulus arguments out there. Basically, conservatives are throwing any objection they can think of against the Obama plan, hoping that something will stick.
But here’s the thing: Most Americans aren’t listening. The most encouraging thing I’ve heard lately is Mr. Obama’s reported response to Republican objections to a spending-oriented economic plan: “I won.” Indeed he did — and he should disregard the huffing and puffing of those who lost.
Yeah, Austin needs $875,000 for a disc golf course, WTF are Republicans doing trying to block quality pork like that?
Spend the money on ing carrot sticks and potato peels. I don't give a . Just spend it. And don't call it pork you dishonest mother er. We HAVE to spend this money. He HAVE to. But what we're damn sure not going to do is just throw huge tax breaks into wealthy peoples' bank accounts so they can just sit on the money.
You real Americans have a country to put back together again? nearly half the people able to vote in America in the presidental elections didn't bother. Of the half that did vote only 52% of the popular vote went to obama, that means obama was elected by less than 30% of the people of the nation, hardly a mandate.But it is the lie that was stuffed down our throats during the election and the lie that is constanly stuffed down our throats now.That America loves Obama. But like the nazi's minister of propaganda said"if you tell a big enough lie often enough it becomes true"
The political, and bussiness class in America put out the lie that American voters are apathetic, they are not apethetic they are enraged that there is no real voice for them in either party.If the democrats are so worried about disenfranchized voters they might start with the 47% of the nation who have given up on the political process.
But I think your right why don't you 30% give your energy to supporting obama, and the rest of us ignore this , get off our asses and start to build the nation we want.
Obama won.
Sorry you lost.
Have it! Just give us Texas and everyone will be happy.
I wish you all and Barney Frank lots of luck and happiness on your journey to rebuilding America.
Gladly. Too bad I'm not Obama. Unfortunately for you, I'm going to assume TX, like most red states, spends more federal dollars than it generates. Actually maybe not, but if so, you guys would have a of a time without the blue states buying your for you.
homie, why talk about one of the states that isn't bankrupting itself?
Texas would and is doing great without most of the liberal economic filth that is crippling some states.
And you probably have your mind backwards on what you just said. Texas is one of the biggest ing players in America. This should be common sense, but you live in Utah so I will give you a free pass. What a joke to think that NY, Cali, and other states are actually keeping us UP. haha
I'm not talking . Like I said, "actually, maybe not".
Mother er please. 8 of the 10 states who spend the most federal tax dollars while paying the least are red states. Liberal economic filth? Bull . Blue states and their charity are the lifeblood of the south.without most of the liberal economic filth that is crippling some states.
60 percent of the voting population voted, largest turnout since 1960.
Obama's margin of victory has been the largest since 1988, and the total domination of the democratic party in congress also suggests that he has a mandate.
Obama has an approval rating in the mid 70s right now.
hahhaha. What do I give a about any other red states? I'm not some party hack who only sees red and blue and throws my blind loyalty towards one or the other. I do know Cali, NY, Rhode Island, and others are complete cluster s right now and Texas is handling business.
You make me embarrassed to be labeled an "American".
Then get the out.
I know numbers and reality can be a but like I said. red states spend far more federal dollars than blue states. Blue states pay far more in federal taxes than red states. It's all right here: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ates_feed.html
Once you republicans get away from the federal trough, you can say something about federal spending. Until then... Shut the up GOP.
You mean the opposition party is opposing. That's outrageous! Who the do they think they are, democrats.
I'm sorry you're so clueless balli. The stimulus package won't do for this country in the long run except make the tab bigger. But hey, what do we care if our kids and their kids have to pay like 90% income taxes to cover the tab we're running up right now? Everyone deserves to have an ipod, a 60" plasma, and a mcmansion.
A government powerful enough to provide everything to the people is powerful enough to take it all away - Thomas Jefferson
Nationalization worked well for the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, etc., so we definitely have history on our side....
You don't know that. Just like I don't know if it will work.
But you're right. We should just sit back and do nothing. I mean, it, everybody will lose their money, retirement and jobs and we'll basically be living in the third world, but worse. But yeah, you're right, let's just give up now.
The bill: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/HR1.pdf
The criticism that the stimulus bill looks more like an appropriations bill than a plan to stimulate he economy does have some merit IMO. But suggesting it is all pork is an overstatement.
I bet some stuff could be trimmed without measurable harm to the economy. I also bet there are a few solid ideas in there. You have to play both ends against the middle.
The majority drafts the bill they want, the minority es about being left out in the cold. Politics as usual. Both sides want what they think is good for the country. Saying that the minority hates America is just as dimwitted AND UNHELPFUL now as it was when the GOP had majorities in Congress.
But, hey, suit yourself, ballijuana. I'm sure you will anyway. I know it feels good to throw it back in the face of erstwhile super-patriots, but that doesn't make it any less childish.
As for the disc golf in Austin, it sounds frivolous, but strikes me as a good idea. (I live in Austin.) It improves a public accommodation that will soon be overrun by even greater numbers of underemployed stoners. Thumbs up!
It seems like there's very little incentive for the GOP to get on board, and very much to obstruct. Why vote for activist government you don't believe in? If you help it succeed, you kill your own ideology. If you resist and and Keynesian pump-priming fails -- and it may -- then your party ends up "not on the wrong side" of history.
The danger for the GOP is that they will be perceived by voters as blocking necessary and desirable government action without proposing anything better. In this case, the path of obstruction leads to obsolescence and even smaller minorities.
I know, but we all know that that is the extent of what I'm doing.
And I guess that's what's driving my anger... and said childishness. Whether it's a state road, a frolf course, a federal highway, a new job, a tax cut, a bunch of contraceptives, a tax rebate, a museum, etc. That money's going to be spent.As for the disc golf in Austin, it sounds frivolous, but strikes me as a good idea. (I live in Austin.) It improves a public accommodation that will soon be overrun by even greater numbers of underemployed stoners. Thumbs up!
The danger for the GOP is that they will be perceived by voters as blocking necessary and desirable government action without proposing anything better. In this case, the path of obstruction leads to obsolescence and even smaller minorities.
And it just seems ridiculous to me that the Republicans are trying to frame this in the context of unnecessary, or frivolous spending. It doesn't really matter where the money goes, it just needs to enter the American system. And if they want to and moan about how it's spent, fine, like you suggested, come up with something else. But don't just blather on about pork and the need for assured, permanent tax cuts. Right now is not the time for political posturing. It's the time to get something done. We're bleeding 50,000 ing jobs a day in this country. The GOP needs to quit putting party first.
-Mars
Gerald Ford said that. Not Thomas Jefferson. You didn't even quote it right. It's "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.."
Guess it gives your quote more relevance by ting on Jefferson's name?
Cute reply, gun hater. Where I grabbed the quote from they had quoted it as being Thomas Jefferson's. Excuse the out of me.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to figuring out who to shoot next with my guns - that's all they're good for according to you.
Why do you hate America?
"Republicans hate America" Politics are getting worse!
One year ago democrats ing hated it when a republican would ask "why do you hate America"?
They also hated, "if you don't like it then leave".
Now it's their standard reply..................politics are hilarious.
It's our standard reply because we are mocking you. Every time someone says, "why do you hate America," the right is being made fun of for all the years they spent saying, "why do you hate America?"
The difference, we're joking- you seriously ing meant it. Do you not understand that, dumbass?
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