Duncan>Hakeem.

[Galileo]

I'm sorry but Hakeem was the better scorer, and better shot blocker, and the most dominant out of the two. Duncan is one of the best at the PF spot all time but he wasn't ever better than Hakeem.

Duncan was already better than Hakeem's peak by the end of the '99 season. The Spurs ended the '99 season with 46 wins and 7 losses, the most devastating 51 game romp in NBA history, and the best finish from March madness first to the end EVER.

The Spurs were 31-5 to end the regular season and 15-2 in the playoffs. Never again has Duncan had as much talent around him.

[kingmalaki]

In 2002 vs LAL, Duncan had 34 points and 25 rebounds in game 5, and the Spurs still didn't win. DRob was shut out, zero points. Shaq was only 7-18 from the floor. Duncan's worst game in that series was 26 points.

In 2001, Duncan has 28 points, 14 boards, 6 assists, and 5 blocks in game 1, and the Spurs lost.

In game 2, Duncan dropped 40 points on 15-26 shooting, plus 9-9 from line and 15 boards, and the Spurs lost. Shaq was only 8-21 with 19 points. They folded in game 3.

In both series, which I watched, Duncan was clearly better than Shaq, the so-called peak Shaq. Duncan was a basically a one-man team. In my opinion, Duncan has been more honorable and impressive when going down in defeat, than Hakeem. Don't get me started on the Dallas '06 series when Duncan played on one foot.

No one remembers how good Duncan was in those series because Duncan didn't get a ring.

You have identified one or two good/great games from that series. Props to Duncan on those few good games. His series %'s were still low. Basically, you haven't addressed my main point. Over the course of a series, Duncan hasn't shown that he can pump 35-40 over the series to lead his team to a win, ala Hakeem or Shaq. To Duncan's credit, due to his teammates he has rarely been in this situation. But there have been times where he was in this position (ala last year while being manned up by Pau Gasol), and he couldn't deliver. Again, there is no way you could stick the likes of Horry, Grant, or Gasol on Hakeem or Shaq 1-1 and get away with it. Duncan is great but a profilic scorer like those two he is not.

[kingmalaki]

The West was tougher?

Sorry but the WEst was much tougher for Duncan.

94 and 95 were the years when a certain 23 was out of basketball. The greatness of Magic and Bird were over. Essentially Jordan came back and Houston went back to the wayside.

In 94 it was the Sonics as teh 1 seed and they got bounced by Denver. Phoenix? Give me a break?

95 and Hakeem was playing out of his mind with the Spurs as a 1 seed. There really were no other teams of note.

Duncan had to get through the like of Kobe and Shaq, Bibby and Weber, Kidd, Nash and Stoudemire and those Pistons teams.

Duncan has maintained his level of play for a longer time has more MVP's, better stats outside of blocks across the board, has more rings and the list goes on.

Duncan passed Hakeem back in 05. Now its not even in question.

You are bragging on the likes of the Pistons and the choking Kings, or no defense Suns led by Nash and Amare!!! In 94 and 95 the top teams were the Suns (Barkley & KJ), Jazz (Stockton & Malone), Magic (Penny & Shaq), Knicks (Ewing/Mason/Oakley...you think the Pistons had tough defense), Spurs (Robinson/Rodman), etc. Aside from Kobe & Shaq...not one individual star on those other squads is better than any dude I just mentioned from 94/95, outside of Penny. Those teams would beat all of the teams from this era too (not counting the ones that won les).

Duncan has squared off against one great team in his era, and he only beat them once (I'm not counting the yr Kobe was a pup and Jackson wasn't coaching them).

The rings argument is silly in this comparison IMO, because Hakeem has clearly shown he can carry a team to a le when he has enough help. He led his team to the le in his 2nd season and lost to one of the best teams in league history. It's not his fault his surrounding cast got injured or booted for drugs and management didn't assemble good help until around 93.

[TD4THREE]

You have identified one or two good/great games from that series. Props to Duncan on those few good games. His series %'s were still low.

Ok, Duncan against the mavs in the 06 playoffs.

game 1- 31 pts 4 ast

game 2- 28 pts 3 ast

game 3- 35 pts 2 ast

game 4- 31 pts 6 ast

game 5- 36 pts 4 ast

game 6- 24 pts 1 ast

game 7- 41 pts 6 ast

Duncan averaged 32.2 ppg, 3.8 ast, and 11.7 rebounds for the entire 7 game series, he also shot .579 % from the field. Still think Duncan can't be a "prolific" scorer when he needs to be?

[kingmalaki]

Ok, Duncan against the mavs in the 06 playoffs.

game 1- 31 pts 4 ast

game 2- 28 pts 3 ast

game 3- 35 pts 2 ast

game 4- 31 pts 6 ast

game 5- 36 pts 4 ast

game 6- 24 pts 1 ast

game 7- 41 pts 6 ast

Duncan averaged 32.2 ppg, 3.8 ast, and 11.7 rebounds for the entire 7 game series, he also shot .579 % from the field. Still think Duncan can't be a "prolific" scorer when he needs to be?

Let me clarify. Hakeem and Shaq have an extra boost in their offensive games. You can't single cover them with dudes like Pau Gasol or Robert Horry and get away with it. You just can't. I have seen this happen to Duncan in the playoffs 4 times. He is just not the profilic scorer that either of those two are.

Sorry, but you can't convince me that Duncan could pump Robinson for 40 a night or Ewing/Mason/Oakley for 27 a night (when the series average is in the 80's) when he is being neutralized by Pau Gasol or shooting in the low 40's against the Wallace boys. Do you honestly think Pau Gasol could neutralize Hakeem or Shaq in a playoff series...where they struggle to score against him? Be honest now. It's similar to how T-Mac and Kobe are both great offensive threats (the old T-Mac), but there is no way in you could stick a Derek Fisher on Kobe (like the Jazz did to T-Mac in the 06 playoffs) and get away with it.

That was a great offensive series against the Mavs BTW.

[TD4THREE]

Do you honestly think Pau Gasol could neutralize Hakeem or Shaq in a playoff series...

In their primes? Of course not. But in Duncan's defense, he's wasn't exactly in his either. He's 32 years old(will be 33 before the playoffs start). As far as Horry, I wouldn't say they got away with it, Duncan had alot of high scoring games and outplayed Shaq several times in alot of their meetings. With that said I'm not suggesting that Duncan could do what Hakeem did to Robinson in 95, or even that he's as good offensively.

[Shaquala-Williams]

This may be the worst thread ever! First of all, the name of the site is spurstalk, what do you expect the answer will be?

When I lived in Seattle back in the 80's my daddy took me to game 6 of my beloved Sonics vs Houston. I've never seen a more dominant performance by a center EVER! This guy was just everywhere, blocking shots, taking rebounds, scoring, assists etc.. After that I had him as one my favs in the nba even though I was a Seattle-fan.

This discussion is damn lame because there's just no way I can give it to Timmy, more rings, yes but that doesn't mean smack honestly. In basketball it's about offensive and defensive plays and Hakeem was a better offensive player and a better defensive player. Talk all you want about rings etc. etc but on the unbiased basketballforums Hakeem is seen as the better.

[afireinside20]

In my opinion Duncan is better than Hakeem. Sure Hakeem had the Dream Shake and good low post moves, but hey, so does Duncan. I think Duncan just about edges him out.

[Galileo]

In my opinion Duncan is better than Hakeem. Sure Hakeem had the Dream Shake and good low post moves, but hey, so does Duncan. I think Duncan just about edges him out.

The value of a big man who runs around and sets dozens of picks on offense is hard to quantify. Duncan did it, and Hakeem didn't.

Another big man who did it was Bill Russell. he was constantly in motion on offense, setting picks and opening up the offense.

The results of Duncan and Russell speak for themselves.

[Ignignokt]

I like how Bobbyjones KingMalaki like to say that the jordan era was tougher than today's peak, yet it's a useless argument to use because the rockets won when jordan was gone. So in actuality, the rockets dominated in the Chris Weber/Scottie Pippen Era! ROFL!!!!!! x 1000000 victoria texas wic products.

[Ignignokt]

Let me clarify. Hakeem and Shaq have an extra boost in their offensive games. You can't single cover them with dudes like Pau Gasol or Robert Horry and get away with it. You just can't. I have seen this happen to Duncan in the playoffs 4 times. He is just not the profilic scorer that either of those two are.

Sorry, but you can't convince me that Duncan could pump Robinson for 40 a night or Ewing/Mason/Oakley for 27 a night (when the series average is in the 80's) when he is being neutralized by Pau Gasol or shooting in the low 40's against the Wallace boys. Do you honestly think Pau Gasol could neutralize Hakeem or Shaq in a playoff series...where they struggle to score against him? Be honest now. It's similar to how T-Mac and Kobe are both great offensive threats (the old T-Mac), but there is no way in you could stick a Derek Fisher on Kobe (like the Jazz did to T-Mac in the 06 playoffs) and get away with it.

That was a great offensive series against the Mavs BTW.

Duncan makes the teams better. Everyones shooting percentage get's better when they joined the spurs. Look at mason who was a carreer .377 3pt shooter and now is a .450.

It is Duncan who took three different squads to the finals.

Infact, I think the Pistons of 05 could have beat the Rockets of 94-95 because of the matchups.

[spursfan09]

@ rings don't mean anything. WTF? Then don't have a freaken playoff.
You can cry all you want that Hakeem didn't have the talent to win more, but TD has alwasy been known for making players around him better.

Also TD gets overlooked cause he plays with so much ease that when you see Hakeem and see all his fancy moves you just think he's better when in reality Tim is so good he makes his performance look like it took no effort.

This is something I noticed about Parker as well. He has such a natural talent, that when he plays bad some think he's being lazy or not trying when he's just having an off night.

[Galileo]

@ rings don't mean anything. WTF? Then don't have a freaken playoff.
You can cry all you want that Hakeem didn't have the talent to win more, but TD has alwasy been known for making players around him better.

Also TD gets overlooked cause he plays with so much ease that when you see Hakeem and see all his fancy moves you just think he's better when in reality Tim is so good he makes his performance look like it took no effort.

This is something I noticed about Parker as well. He has such a natural talent, that when he plays bad some think he's being lazy or not trying when he's just having an off night.

I agree.

The fact is, with Duncan, the Spurs run a more smooth offense than the Rockets ever did.

I watched Hakeem. He was NOT a team player until the fall of 1992 when Rudy T came aboard. Then he dominated for three years, but his skills were already on the decline by the '95 season because of age.

Duncan was a team player from day one, and became a great team player by his second year.

Duncan '99 more athletic than Hakeem '95

[Galileo]

for all of hakeem's great moves, he always went for the turnaround jumper that would miss more than it would make and it always left him out of position to get the rebound.

Great point.

I often wondered this myself as I watched Hakeem play. At least he usually ran down the court fast to get back on defense.

[SpurSupremacist]

The only thing Hakeem supporters can rely on is him being more flashy, therefore he will be more universally respected than Duncan.. Duncan more rings, and he's been the common denominator on every Spurs championship team. He's taken more people to rings than Michael Jordan. (wow)

Clear choice, Duncan.

[ambchang]

Talks that Duncan didn't have another gear is laugable.

In 2003, the following are the numbers for Duncan in each series:

Vs. Suns:
18.7 ppg, 16 rpg, 5.2 ast, 3.5 blks

vs. Lakers:
28 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 4.8 ast, 1.3 blks

vs. Mavs:
28 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 5.8 ast, 3 blks

vs. Nets:
24.2ppg, 17 rpg, 5.3 ast, 5.3 blks

And these include masterpieces like the near quadruple double le clinching game, 40 pt, 15 reb, 7 ast gae vs. the mavs, 34 pts, 24 reb, 6 ast, 6 blk vs. the mavs, 37 pts, 16 reb, 4 ast vs. the 3-time champ lakers, 36 pt, 9 reb, 5 ast vs. the Lakers, 28 pt, 8 reb, 7 ast vs. the Lakers, 27 pt, 14 reb, 5 ast vs. the Lakers, triple double vs. the suns, 32 pt, 20 reb, 6 ast, 7 blk vs. the Nets, and these are all in the same playoff run.

[sook]

Hakeem is top 10 all time, with his skill set he is arguable the best Center of all time lmao...but Duncan is a PF, how can you compare the 2 that accurately.

Good arguments Jam, i agree with you for the most part

[sook]

The West was tougher?

Sorry but the WEst was much tougher for Duncan.

94 and 95 were the years when a certain 23 was out of basketball. The greatness of Magic and Bird were over. Essentially Jordan came back and Houston went back to the wayside.

In 94 it was the Sonics as teh 1 seed and they got bounced by Denver. Phoenix? Give me a break?

95 and Hakeem was playing out of his mind with the Spurs as a 1 seed. There really were no other teams of note.

Duncan had to get through the like of Kobe and Shaq, Bibby and Weber, Kidd, Nash and Stoudemire and those Pistons teams.

Duncan has maintained his level of play for a longer time has more MVP's, better stats outside of blocks across the board, has more rings and the list goes on.

Duncan passed Hakeem back in 05. Now its not even in question.

the 95 Rockets had the toughest path to the finals in NBA history, 4 teams with 50+ wins, including a 1-3 comeback in the series vs the suns.

Someone already posted it too, the first time Hakeem went to the finals the team wasn't that great and that was probably the era of the most Powerful teams in NBA history, the Pistons, Lakers, Celtics, you name it.

He actually wanted to be traded or something b.c he was so frustrated of carrying all the load at one point. I think Duncan is great but it is also the compliments he has that allowed the spurs to be the team of the decade

[TDfan2007]

the 95 Rockets had the toughest path to the finals in NBA history, 4 teams with 50+ wins, including a 1-3 comeback in the series vs the suns.

Someone already posted it too, the first time Hakeem went to the finals the team wasn't that great and that was probably the era of the most Powerful teams in NBA history, the Pistons, Lakers, Celtics, you name it.

He actually wanted to be traded or something b.c he was so frustrated of carrying all the load at one point. I think Duncan is great but it is also the compliments he has that allowed the spurs to be the team of the decade

I love how everyone mentions Tim's supporting cast, then forgets about 2003. That year was supposed to be a rebuilding year and Tim was basically surrounded by unproven guys. He made everyone better and destroyed opposing teams individually during that le run. What Tim did in 2003 is on par with anything that Hakeem has ever done. He was just that good.

[duncan228]

What Tim did in 2003 is on par with anything that Hakeem has ever done. He was just that good.

Duncan was out of his mind in '03. Not my favorite Championship, but some of Duncan's best basketball.

[m33p0]

Duncan's go to move > Hakeem's go to move.

nuff sed.

[Thomas82]

Hakeem is top 10 all time, with his skill set he is arguable the best Center of all time lmao...but Duncan is a PF, how can you compare the 2 that accurately.

Good arguments Jam, i agree with you for the most part

Please tell me that was a joke.

[Killakobe81]

Hakeem's peak was higher. There are few fans on the board who are going to debate that.

However, Tim has put together a sustained period of dominance that few NBA players are ever going to match. He is a much better passer than Hakeem, and plays much smarter defense, which refutes your statement that athleticism is able to trump this category. If defense = athleticism, the Spurs would not have more than a single banner in the rafters, if that.

And he's not done yet. Really, if Timmy ends up with 15 ASGs or more in his career and 5+ rings, how are you going to possibly argue that Hakeem was a better player over the course of an entire career? Tim Duncan's game is one that, in spite of posting excellent statistics across the board, defies those statistics in the same motion. He is a perfect example of what stats DO NOT tell you about the game of basketball.


So you can take Hakeem's incredible number of post moves and offensive abilities, you can take his dream hook, and his vaunted athleticism. I'll take Duncan's consistently heady play, his BB IQ that is almost unparalleled across all of the major sports, his ability to control the game when he doesn't have the ball, his passing skills, his incredible clutch play, and the four banners hanging from the rafters that all resulted from him being the best power forward the league has ever seen. The part that puts it over the edge for me is that Tim isn't even CLOSE to being done yet, and may have 6 or 7 rings when everything is said and finished, at which point the comparisons to Hakeem would cease and talk about whether Duncan should be in the top 5 of all time would start.

great post and agree longterm i would take Duncan over Hakeem (and Shaq)
BUT Shaq and Hakeem in their MVP years were far more dominant ...Duncan consistently great

[m33p0]

great post and agree longterm i would take Duncan over Hakeem (and Shaq)
BUT Shaq and Hakeem in their MVP years were far more dominant ...Duncan consistently great

i knew deferring to his teammates and showing them trust will come back and haunt duncan. he should have told manu and tony to take a hike and taken all the shots himself!

[sook]

Please tell me that was a joke.

Why is it a joke? You want to refute my point? That is nowhere close to a joke my friend, thats like saying Kobe bryant isn't one of the greatest centers of all time.


Bring up Shaq if you want, but maybe you should see the 95 finals where dream swept shaq's team, and don't give me the bull of shaq wasn't in his prime, they took out Jordan's bullsm