Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    How Congress Is Creating the 51st State*

    By George Will

    WASHINGTON -- One answer is: Six rows of stars -- the top, third and fifth rows with nine, the second, fourth and sixth rows with eight. The question is: How might the nation reconfigure its flag to acknowledge a 51st state. Or "state."



    The question is pertinent, or would be were Congress inclined to adhere to the Cons ution. Both the House and Senate are moving toward pretending, as part of a disgraceful bargain with Utah, that the District of Columbia is a state.



    The D.C. House Voting Rights Act will give the District a full voting member in the House of Representatives. The problem is, or should be, that although the Cons ution has provisions that allow various interpretations, the following is not one of those provisions: The House shall be composed of members chosen "by the people of the several states."



    But the District is not a state. It is (as the Cons ution says in Article I, Section 8) "the seat of the government of the United States." That is why, in 1978, the District's advocates sent to the states a cons utional amendment requiring that "for purposes of representation" the district would be "treated as though it were a state." Only 16 states ratified it, 22 short of the required number. So the District's advocates decided that an amendment is unnecessary -- a statute will suffice because the Cons ution empowers Congress "to exercise exclusive legislation" over the District. They argue that this power can be used to, in effect, amend the Cons ution by nullifying Article I, Section 2's requirement that House members come from "the several states." This argument, that Congress' legislative power trumps the Cons ution, means that Congress could establish religion, abridge freedom of speech and of the press and abolish the right of peaceful assembly in the District.


    And, of course, Congress next could give the District two senators. Which probably is the main objective of the Democrats who are most of the supporters of this end run around the Cons ution. In the 12 elections since the District acquired, by cons utional amendment, the right to allocate presidential electoral votes, it has never cast less than 74.8 percent of its popular vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. That amendment, the 23rd, stipulates that the District shall allocate the number of electoral votes to which it would be en led "if it were a state." If.


    Senate passage of the D.C. House Voting Rights Act is assured, partly because under the Act's terms, Utah, which has two Republican senators, will be awarded a fourth House seat. The state came close to qualifying for a fourth after the 2000 census and, because it is growing like Jack's beanstalk, would have been awarded a fourth after the 2010 census. But why wait for 2012? The Cons ution, that cobweb, is all that stands between Utah and instant gratification. So for the first time in 96 years, the size of the House will be permanently increased, by two members, to 437. Last year, as a senator, Barack Obama supported the act, so when it flutters onto his desk, he will sign it, although a veto would seem to be required by the recent oath he swore to defend the Cons ution from threats, presumably including Congress.



    Still, a freshly minted adjective describes this unseemly handing out, like party favors, of seats in the national legislature: Blagojevichian. He had an unsavory plan for filling one Senate seat for a while. Congress has an anti-cons utional plan for creating two Senate seats and one in the House forever.



    When the first modification of the nation's flag was occasioned by the admission to the union of Vermont and Kentucky in 1791 and 1792, respectively, Congress stipulated that the flag have 15 stars -- and 15 stripes. But by the time the second modification was ordered, in 1818, there were 20 states. It was clear -- because of Manifest Destiny, "Westward the course of empire takes its way," etc. -- that the flag was going to resemble the necktie displays nowadays at Brooks Brothers (founded in 1818) -- too many stripes. So the flag went back to 13 stripes, and only stars have proliferated.



    When the 51st star is added for the District, Congress should make at least a limited nod to the Cons ution by stipulating that the star be bracketed by quotation marks, or have over it a small asterisk. This would be a way of saying: "As if it were a state."


    [email protected]


    Copyright 2009, Washington Post Writers Group


    Related Topics:



    George Will

  2. #2
    Veteran
    My Team
    Utah Jazz
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Post Count
    7,778
    But why wait for 2012? The Cons ution, that cobweb, is all that stands between Utah and instant gratification.

    Meh, I might agree in theory, but rural Utah's bat insane and as long as we're getting a seat I might as well put theory aside, embrace the political and support making DC a voting member so as to counteract the right wing craziness that will be embodied in Utah's soon to be 4th district representative.

  3. #3
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Post Count
    31,094
    balli, so you're for the Dems giving the finger to the Cons ution for this? If so, I never want to see you pretend to have any kind of objectivity on this forum or call out anyone for being a conservative.

    What they're trying to do is uncons utional. It's ing bull , but that's Pelosi, Harry, and the Messiah for you...

  4. #4
    Veteran
    My Team
    Utah Jazz
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Post Count
    7,778
    What they're trying to do is uncons utional. It's ing bull , but that's Pelosi, Harry, and the Messiah for you...
    What? Like it's cons utional for Utah to take an extra seat, early, before the census?

    As long as we're breaking the rules to give the reddest state in the nation an extra seat I don't see why we can't break them to seat a congress member who will benefit the democrats. You don't like it, about Utah and the republicans who orchestrated this whole deal to begin with. Or do you only get outraged when bending the cons ution benefits the democrats?
    Last edited by balli; 02-05-2009 at 11:57 PM.

  5. #5
    Veteran
    My Team
    Utah Jazz
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Post Count
    7,778
    Utah Republicans: We want an extra seat in congress.

    Congress: No, the cons ution says you have to wait until the census says you have an increase in population.

    Utah Republicans: C'mon.

    Congress: Okay, but there ain't no such thing as free lunch and we're also giving DC a seat.

    Utah Republicans: Okay, it's a bi-partisan compromise. We both agree- the cons ution, let's do this .

    Aggie: ing democrats. That's Pelosi, Harry and the messiah for you.



    And you call me a partisan? Pffffffffffffff.

  6. #6
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    One voting rep I can see, even if it's wrong. (It is wrong.)

    Senator? No way.

  7. #7
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    There's an amendment process for this.

    If we do this, why even have a Cons ution?

  8. #8
    Veteran
    My Team
    Utah Jazz
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Post Count
    7,778
    All things equal and like I said, in theory, I agree. But I'll be damned if not as a dem, but a leftist, I'm giving red ass Utah an extra seat for free, out of the blue, for no reason at all. Despite the precedent the compromise sets.

    Senator? No way.
    To be fair is it truly the end goal of Democratic leadership to use this as a precedent for considering DC a state? Or is that just Will's conjecture? And even if true, wouldn't it be more wishful thinking than a concrete plan? And either way, wouldn't it be fair to also criticize Utah's republicans for formulating a demand (that is no more cons utional) and compromise that would include such a precedent in the first place?

  9. #9
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    To be fair is it truly the end goal of Democratic leadership to use this as a precedent for considering DC a state? Or is that just Will's conjecture? And even if true, wouldn't it be more wishful thinking than a concrete plan?
    It's Will's conjecture, and if true would only be wishful thinking. Yeah. It's just a headline. DC is still at the mercy of Congress.

    And either way, wouldn't it be fair to also criticize Utah's republicans for formulating a demand (that is no more cons utional) and compromise that would include such a precedent in the first place?
    I don't know the blow-by-blow, but that sounds fair to me. There could be unanticipated problems.

    Is it possible to write legislation in such a way that it sets no precedent for anything else?

    I would also think, DC being what it is, that it could set no precedent for anything else. The suspense surrounding DC v. er is obviously related. DC is its own thing. It's hard to generalize from the case.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 02-06-2009 at 02:08 AM.

  10. #10
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
    My Team
    Detroit Pistons
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    10,571
    What ing bull .

    I know, scathing analysis and strawberry-flavored contributions...

  11. #11
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    What ing bull .

    I know, scathing analysis and strawberry-flavored contributions...
    There's not much more to say about it, scathing, strawberry-flavored or otherwise.

  12. #12
    Veteran
    My Team
    Dallas Mavericks
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    1,162
    What about puerto rico, costa rica, and iraq?

  13. #13
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    Puerto Rico: US Territory. (Maybe, someday.)

    Costa Rica: independent and sovereign (Never)

    Iraq: emerging democracy, de facto protectorate (We ain't making them no 51st state, even if they cost as much.)
    Last edited by Winehole23; 02-06-2009 at 02:20 AM.

  14. #14
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Post Count
    676
    I will accept the seat.

  15. #15
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    I will accept the seat.
    Leave your beloved Texas for swampy DC?

    Say it ain't so.

  16. #16
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    DC is bigger than say, Wyoming, and North Dakota is within striking distance. Could DC be a state?

  17. #17
    Veteran
    My Team
    Utah Jazz
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Post Count
    7,778
    I'd be pissed if I was a permanent resident of DC and didn't have congressional representation. Then again, I'm clueless about how populated DC proper is. You have to figure a lot of the people who live there are transplants who claim residency elsewhere. Even as a democrat I would theorize that it doesn't deserve statehood, but these waters are murky and the more I think about it, the more I like them having some limited form of representation; like say IDK, a single house district.

  18. #18
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    how populated DC proper is.
    581,530. Note the detail in the address:

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html

  19. #19
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Post Count
    15,842
    voting is a sham, children, carry on with believing The Great American Lies

  20. #20
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
    My Team
    Boston Celtics
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Post Count
    22,399
    Here's my question... how does DC not have representation? Aren't they represented by their state rep? (DC's in what, Maryland?)

  21. #21
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    Here's my question... how does DC not have representation? Aren't they represented by their state rep? (DC's in what, Maryland?)
    DC was ceded by Maryland in 1790. Ah-yup. They have a non-voting rep in the House. The 23rd amendment gave them the right to vote for the President in 1961. Etc.

  22. #22
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Post Count
    1,636
    I lived in DC for several years. I remained a Texas voter. No harm, no foul. The only people who are screwed are the poor black people who have lived their for generations. Anyway Utah will get their new seat no matter what. They need to wait for it.

  23. #23
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
    My Team
    Boston Celtics
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Post Count
    22,399
    The easiest answer would be to just fold DC back into Maryland, I would think.

  24. #24
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,860
    The easiest answer would be to just fold DC back into Maryland, I would think.
    Hmm. There'd be no counterbalancing GOP rep in that case. Not many R's in Maryland.

  25. #25
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    7,563
    Folks in D.C. have license plates that quote "No taxation without representation", from the days of the war of Independence. It does seem to me that they should be represented by a voting member in Congress, somewhere. I don't have a clue about the cons utionality of it, but I would assume that if Will's statement is accurate, the Supremes will be asked to weigh in on it post haste.

    I like George Will. I don't always agree with him, but when he is right, he is right. I just don't know if this is one of those times or not. It seems to me that we have more pressing issues for Congress to consider and for Will to opine about.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •