I'm sorry if Spurs fans are going to vehemently disagree with me on this, but Ian Mahinmi doesn't seem to be any better than Amir Johnson. And, i don't think Amir Johnson is very good. As I've mentioned already, no, I don't think your scenario gives the Pistons much value at all.
Let me add to your point:
Last year, Memphis owner, Michael Heisley and GM Chris Wallace were desparate sellers. They literally handed Gasol over to the Fakers on a silver platter. Heisley later confessed that he regretted doing so.
Joe Dumars is not a desparate seller. Don't look for any panic moves, bad trades or junk deals from him.
The 14 mil is not that bad. Trade Bowen 4 mil, Oberto 3.5, Bonner 3 mil sign and trade Horry and Splitter rights and you have a deal. Detroit would cut Bowen and Horry. Bowen's contract next year is only partially guarenteed and they would get the rights to Splitter who is more likely to be NBA bound in 2010. Bonner would give them the big that can keep the floor spaced like Sheed and Oberto gives them the smart inside big to eat up minutes and do the dirty work.
The Pistons have three 2nd round picks this year too. They don't need any more 2nd round picks. In fact, they should get rid of one of the three they have now.
I think I've largely agreed with that.
I was just offering up an explanation for why Dumars might choose not to fold this season. I think my posts have uniformly suggested that if Dumars is truly looking to get talent-for-talent, the Spurs have no chance and that unless Dumars is consumed with maintaining capspace but wants to be sure to get something (even something relatively small) for Rasheed, there won't be a deal.
I don't disagree with your bottomline or your point.
If you were Joe Dumars, would you do that deal?
Honestly, would you?
I agree that it is probably not going to happen (just read the pages before this in the thread). I think Amare is the perfect and almost only trade scenario, but I am not sure if it will happen.
I was strictly arguing the point that if Dumars really thought that no other offers were coming in, and that the Pistons were not going to make noise this year, that he would be ok with getting a young prospect + keeping 99% of his cap space at the same time.
It could be a 2010 first round pick
and it also scraps a portion of their cap space next year. pistons hang up if you call with that offer.
Yup.
It's like fantasy hoops. Find the mark and wear him down on the low until you get what you want.
Who the Spurs need to be talking to is teams like Golden State, Charlotte, and the Clippers. Brian Skinner wouldn't be bad.
The only way I see the Suns doing that is if they don't care about losing Rasheed next year. Do you think that they will trade for him knowing that next year he could sign for the Spurs of all teams?
just for the record, it would have to be a 2011 1st. we cant trade our 2010 1st pick.
Of course it doesn't; it gives them more value than nothing, but it provides little "value" from a talent standpoint and serves mostly to get a little something for Rasheed while maintaining the cap space that his deparature will create for them.
Frankly, I'd be shocked if that was what Dumars wanted to do; I'm merely trying to find some way to understand what could conceivably compel him to do a trade like that one. By no means am I suggesting that it's likely or that it's even reasonable.
I don't think there's any realistic chance that Detroit trades Rasheed Wallace to SA. Period.
Understood. I can agree that it gives the Pistons more than "nothing."
But, as you seem to also understand, Joe Dumars is willing to settle on "nothing" unless something of relatively greater value is offered.
Bottom line is: If it is how Jamstone says that Dumars doesn't want to give up on the season yet, then yes we have no chance. But if it is like many BB specialist are saying around the league (that Joe is all about cap space) then we do have a chance. Specially 'cause not many other teams would want to get a desinterested Rasheed Wallace.
Maybe. The only reason I say no, is because the Suns are over the cap anyways next year so an expiring (Sheed) does not really help them.
But if they could get a good prospect (stuckey?) to go along with sheed, then they would consider it I am sure.
I think that's what you've reported him to have said. I understand that to be his public position and I think your arguments are consistent with that position.
Now, I'll add that public positions on these things can frequently be bargaining devices intended to spur bidding on a player. It's easy for Dumars to say right now that he's not going to blow the team up and that he's looking to get talent-for-talent for 'Sheed. But in a week, when there aren't any offers there and with the hard decision to make, that could change. I'm not saying it will and I frankly think -- as my post discussing the likelihood of the Pistons advancing at least a round deep with Rasheed around suggests -- Dumars would do the franchise a disservice to take pennies on the dollar, talentwise, for Wallace.
With that said, and to make myself clear, I don't think there's any chance that Dumars reverses course to the point that he ships Rasheed Wallace to San Antonio. None.
Hard to see the Sheed/Gasol comparison. Gasol is a young player under a longer term contract going to a team willing to spend money. Sheed is a twilight player who's play has many saying he's out of gas and has an expiring contract meaning it could either be half season short term fix if he started plying better and/or cap relief. Better cap relief deals out their, namely LaFrentz.
Seeing as how Dumars traded Billups for AI I'm not to impressed with his GMing smarts. Not to mention Darko.
Settling for nothing has gotten alot of GMs fired. So if he likes his job, IMO, he better get something for him.
I don't think Joe Dumars is worried about his job security.
But, I'll pass on that little piece of advice to him.
With how crappy of a job hes done in the last couple years, I'd say he should be.
so has selling out your fan base, and opening giving up on a season.
True, Gasol and Sheed are two different players at two different stages of their respective careers. My comparison wasn't on their age or level of play. The comparison was of a trade where one team gets a piece that really helps them and gives up very little in return. That's the comparison.
As for Dumars GMing smarts, well, it's no secret he's made his share of mistakes. And, quite a few that were major, major mistakes. There are very few if any GMs in any professional sports that are mistake-less. Dumars overall resume of work as a GM is pretty solid, despite those blemishes. And, more importantly, he followed up most of his mistakes by at least resolving them in one way or another. But, sure, Dumars deserves a fair amount of criticism for several of his moves.
17 pages? really? I think a Sheed and Duncan frontcourt would be an incredibly dangerous combo, and can appreciate Spur fans getting excited on the idea of it. But at some point reality has to set in. The Spurs do not have the pieces to make any sort of trade happen. It's very likely that every other team out there is in a better position to make a move for Sheed than the Spurs are.
Wait till the offseason, and then you've got a good chance of signing him to a deal.
How in any way, shape, or form has he done crappy? Have you seen how consistent the are?
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