But they wouldn't have the same cap space. Oberto, Bowen, Finley all have another year. The only true expirings the Spurs could offer are Ime & Vaughn. If Horry is willing to play ball he could be another one, but do we know whether he's willing?
Dodging the luxury tax would be a benefit for them, but there's plenty of other teams out there who can assist them in doing that. And it won't cost them Rasheed to do it.
Ah, I was thinking if we sent them the money to waive Oberto and Bowen it wouldn't affect the cap space. Even so, they might prefer saving $5 million and losing a little cap space, unless they're planning on turning around and using that space immediately. They're in rebuilding mode, and they might want to hold off until 2010. I guess I'm also hoping they'll have some desire to do Rasheed a solid since he helped them win a le. Oh well.
my math may be a bit off, but the pistons should only be between 600K and 1.6 mil over the tax line. so all they would have to do is find a team willing to take some fodder off their books for nothing and they get below the tax line (choose whoever of acker, bynum, and herrmann it would take).
no need to trade sheed to get below the tax line.
Yes, but IF they can trade sheed and keep their cap space (which is a possibility) and get under the luxury tax in doing so, you have to consider that they might grant Sheed his wish of being traded (if there is one). Especially if they can get a player (probably on an expiring contract or rookie scale contract) as well.
but the base trade being discussed here (horry + filler contracts + marginal assets) doesnt give them all of the above. we can give them tax relief, and other assets (limited picks, splitter, mahinmi). we cant give them sufficient expirings.
No, but as already discussed, there would be buyouts involved that with the money saved and perhaps cash considerations (which can also be up to 3 million) then that does essentially give them that.
With contracts this small individually, I cannot believe that the buyouts would be that large.
Not only is this contingent on finding a 3rd team probably, but it also has to factor in how much Sheed is actually pressing to be traded. If Sheed is not pressing, there is probably very little chance.
Buyouts still count against the cap.
For the following year?
Yes. Whatever the buyout amount is gets prorated across all remaining years of the contract.
How does that work for partially guaranteed contracts such as Oberto and Bowen?
again, the players in question would have to waive a large portion of the money that they would be owed.
and whatever money we give the pistons has nothing to do with the buyouts. whatever amount of money the pistons pay to buyout the players contracts stays on their books as a cap hit. they dont spend the theoretical 3 mil and the contracts simply go away. thats not how buyouts work.
there is the issue of right of set-off. but its a bit complicated, so im just going to ignore it. but if you are interested, heres the bit from larry coon:
again, its a bit complicated, but it doesnt equate to all that much, so i simply ignore it.If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers -- see question number 54), the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money they still owe the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off). This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it doesn't even have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).
For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived during the 2005 offseason, with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract. If this player signs a $1 million contract with another NBA team for the 2005-06 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $641,748 (the minimum for a one-year veteran in 2005-06), divided by two, or $179,126. If this player had a $5 million salary with his prior team, then his prior team would be responsible for the remaining $4,820,874. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,820,874, which was more than he made prior to being waived.
The money we give them helps them eat the buyout "cost", albeit more indirectly.
You just take the guaranteed money and figure out what percentage of that is due in each remaining year of the contract. Then you take the buyout amount and divvy it up across the remaining years based on those percentages. For example if you're buying out a guy who has 2 years left and 60% of the guaranteed money remaining on his deal is owed this year and 40% next year then 60% of the buyout hits this year and 40% next year.
yes it helps with the cost, but it does absolutely nothing to the cap hits they would take. so it doesnt matter when it comes to their cap space.
I guess the question comes down to which is more enticing to the Pistons:
A) Have 34 million in cap space (Sheed and Iverson expiring) and pay luxury tax
or
B) Have ~30 million (assuming buyout cap hit) + young player (Ian or Tiago) or solid player with expiring from 3rd team + avoid the luxury tax + get money from luxury tax pool + possible draft pick (s) + cash considerations.
he's coming
trust me
i heard from a little bird
Like I said, I think how much Sheed is pushing for a trade will determine the outcome. If he is cool with just playing it out, then not a good chance. If he really is pushing for a trade, it might help the odds.
those arent their only options though. they could make a minor deal (dump acker or herrmann), still maximize their cap space, avoid the luxury tax, and get their piece of the pie. they dont have to move sheed to get below the tax line.
jut wait till tuesday no later than thursday
i havent been this excited ever
lets just say that i found out one my friends dads works for the spurs
True, but that does not land them a quality player with an expiring contract, or draft picks, or a young prospect on a rookie scale.
But you are right. They do have options.
Quit it!
yup but im not promissing anything and my friends dad is good friends with RC i heard and he dosen't bull about really important things but he said its about a 75% chance it goes down right it will probably get higher during the week he said that discussing more about salary cap issues then the trade itself so my guess is that dumars already agreed to trade rasheed to san antonio thats what i heard don't get too hard
are you telling the truth , spursowntexas? if so it will be a good move by the Spurs,
its funny, but the last couple of years at the trade deadline the Spurs have traded for a PF/C as the main piece
2005 - Nazr
2008 - Kurt Thomas
2009 - Rasheed?
The fact that you used absolutely no punctuation leads me to believe you are lying to usyup but im not promissing anything and my friends dad is good friends with RC i heard and he dosen't bull about really important things but he said its about a 75% chance it goes down right it will probably get higher during the week he said that discussing more about salary cap issues then the trade itself so my guess is that dumars already agreed to trade rasheed to san antonio thats what i heard don't get too hard
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