New York Times Magazine: The No-Stats All-Star (Shane Battier)

[flipcritic]

A really long article. But interesting for Rockets fans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/ma...Battier-t.html

[Harry Callahan]

Funny how Daryl Morey worked himself into this article. He must have a massive ego. He should have drafted George Hill - that guy would have helped his team. Morey is too busy trying to be cute and make himself out to be smarter than he really is. The author of this article wrote Moneyball (about Billy Bean of the Oakland A's). In other words, the author has an affinity for stat nerds who consider themselves smarter than all of their compe ors.

Battier seems like an OK guy, and it's great that he breaks away from the stereotype NBA player with the huge entourage and 4th grade level education. But Shane is Bruce Bowen light. The New York Times should have done an article on Bowen's rise from an EXTREMELY difficult childhood. It's a more inspirational story.

[Rogue]

Funny how Daryl Morey worked himself into this article. He must have a massive ego. He should have drafted George Hill - that guy would have helped his team. Morey is too busy trying to be cute and make himself out to be smarter than he really is. The author of this article wrote Moneyball (about Billy Bean of the Oakland A's). In other words, the author has an affinity for stat nerds who consider themselves smarter than all of their compe ors.

Battier seems like an OK guy, and it's great that he breaks away from the stereotype NBA player with the huge entourage and 4th grade level education. But Shane is Bruce Bowen light. The New York Times should have done an article on Bowen's rise from an EXTREMELY difficult childhood. It's a more inspirational story.

morey really is smart so he needn't act at all, I would be 100% satisfied if Donnie Nelson was half as smart as daryl. rockets team hasn't made even one bad move since morey took charge of this team. Morey didn't draft hill because he drafted donte greene whom he traded last summer along with bobby jackson for ron artest. their two garbage contracts of yao and tmac were signed by the former GM of rockets, but not morey. morey is not a idiot, unlike his colleagues who also work on the operation of that sucking team.

[Indazone]

That was a good read. I find it interesting what Morey said about Ginobili being a statistical freak. He'll hurt you going left, right, and virtually from every place on the floor.

[sook]

morey really is smart so he needn't act at all, I would be 100% satisfied if Donnie Nelson was half as smart as daryl. rockets team hasn't made even one bad move since morey took charge of this team. Morey didn't draft hill because he drafted donte greene whom he traded last summer along with bobby jackson for ron artest. their two garbage contracts of yao and tmac were signed by the former GM of rockets, but not morey. morey is not a idiot, unlike his colleagues who also work on the operation of that sucking team.

i have to agree with you. Actually he should have traded tmac in the off season, but no one can blame him for that, tmac and the rockets had great chemistry and won 22 straight, who would have though that would dissapear?

[Findog]

Funny how Daryl Morey worked himself into this article. He must have a massive ego. He should have drafted George Hill - that guy would have helped his team. Morey is too busy trying to be cute and make himself out to be smarter than he really is. The author of this article wrote Moneyball (about Billy Bean of the Oakland A's). In other words, the author has an affinity for stat nerds who consider themselves smarter than all of their compe ors.

Battier seems like an OK guy, and it's great that he breaks away from the stereotype NBA player with the huge entourage and 4th grade level education. But Shane is Bruce Bowen light. The New York Times should have done an article on Bowen's rise from an EXTREMELY difficult childhood. It's a more inspirational story.

I don't know of anybody outside of Dave Berri who doesn't caution that new statistical models for evaluating players should be an adjunct to traditional scouting methods, instead of replacing them. Moneyball wasn't about fat guys that could draw walks. It was about exploiting market value to build the best team for the buck and not waste resources. It's why in baseball teams like Oakland and Minnesota have found a way to be compe ive, while dysfunctional cheapskate franchises like Kansas City and Pittsburgh continue to suck.

Basketball is different from baseball in that you need to watch the games and the players to make sense of what the statistical data is telling you. When you start constructing a roster, one thing you'll notice is that championship teams all have a guy in the mold of a Shane Battier, James Posey or Robert Horry. They're wasted on bad teams, but they fill a critical role on elite teams.

[Matchman]

i endorse this excellent article

[sook]

I don't know of anybody outside of Dave Berri who doesn't caution that new statistical models for evaluating players should be an adjunct to traditional scouting methods, instead of replacing them. Moneyball wasn't about fat guys that could draw walks. It was about exploiting market value to build the best team for the buck and not waste resources. It's why in baseball teams like Oakland and Minnesota have found a way to be compe ive, while dysfunctional cheapskate franchises like Kansas City and Pittsburgh continue to suck.

Basketball is different from baseball in that you need to watch the games and the players to make sense of what the statistical data is telling you. When you start constructing a roster, one thing you'll notice is that championship teams all have a guy in the mold of a Shane Battier, James Posey or Robert Horry. They're wasted on bad teams, but they fill a critical role on elite teams.

excellent post...i've never noticed that. I would still trade shane for a good PG though././

[Findog]

excellent post...i've never noticed that. I would still trade shane for a good PG though././

I think the foundation of McGrady/Yao is ultimately Houston's problem, just the fact that neither one of them can stay healthy on a consistent basis. It looks like Yao is going to play a full season this year, but the past four he's averaged less than 60 games a year. McGrady was relatively healthy by his standards last year when Yao was out. Now Yao is healthy and McGrady is in and out of the lineup. The fact that the Rockets can't trot out the same starting lineup and rotation night to night doesn't allow for much chemistry and continuity to develop.

[Matchman]

just finished the 8-page article and heres a few great quotes that might interest you guys:

Battier Knows Bryant is a Less-Efficient Scorer 1 Off the dribble. 2 Shooting from long range with a hand in his face. 3 Going to his left, not his right.

At the time of the Lakers game, Battier was a plus 10, which put him in the company of Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett, both perennial All-Stars. For his career he’s a plus 6. “Plus 6 is enormous,” Morey says. “It’s the difference between 41 wins and 60 wins.” He names a few other players who were a plus 6 last season: Vince Carter, Carmelo Anthony, Tracy McGrady.

The Golden State Warriors forward Stephen Jackson is an even stranger case. “Steve Jackson,” Battier says, “is statistically better going to his right, but he loves to go to his left — and goes to his left almost twice as often.” The San Antonio Spurs’ Manu Ginóbili is a statistical freak: he has no imbalance whatsoever in his game — there is no one way to play him that is better than another. He is equally efficient both off the dribble and off the pass, going left and right and from any spot on the floor.

The reason the Rockets insist that Battier guard Bryant is his gift for encouraging him into his zones of lowest efficiency. The effect of doing this is astonishing: Bryant doesn’t merely help his team less when Battier guards him than when someone else does. When Bryant is in the game and Battier is on him, the Lakers’ offense is worse than if the N.B.A.’s best player had taken the night off. “The Lakers’ offense should obviously be better with Kobe in,” Morey says. “But if Shane is on him, it isn’t.” A player whom Morey describes as “a marginal N.B.A. athlete” not only guards one of the greatest — and smartest — offensive threats ever to play the game. He renders him a detriment to his team.