So none of the big market teams like New York, New Jersey, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, Miami and Atlanta are going to want to use the cap space they have the potential to have, but the Spurs are? Come on.
I was asking a question, and it was not rhetorical. There will, however, be teams with the room that will not use it. I don't know which ones. Do you?
I think NY will for sure, NJ maybe not, PHO maybe not (Sarver seems cheap), and DAL and HOU would have to jettision all of their stars to buy in that market. I'm not sure they're going to ditch Yao and Dirk.
Last edited by exstatic; 02-16-2009 at 04:08 PM.
bb, you're one of the smartest people on the board, so don't be offended when I ask you an honest question, OK?
Are you even paying attention to the economy? I'm not sure SA can PAY three players at that point in time. Hill is available as a cheaper alternative to Parker, so you court Bosh with your cap room, get him to pressure TOR into a S&T, and you throw Parker's hefty salary at them. I don't think they'll be too upset to get a multiple AllStar back, we still have money to fill out the roster, we get our new star, and stay in business.
Teams who have cap room and lose out on Lebron/Wade/Bosh might decide to not spend, but I don't think those three guys need to worry about getting multiple max contract offers.
I'd rather they just dump everyone and go into the lottery than pay Bosh a long-term deal and cut everyone else but Duncan. Either go balls-out for the le or let Tim pick where he wants to go and trade him there, let Manu walk, and tank for draft picks. I'd rather see the Spurs be very good or very bad than get themselves stuck in the middle of the pack.
I'm with going balls out lottery. I'd trade Manu, even Parker for picks or young talent. I'd give Duncan his option, play it out with the Spurs or get traded to the team of his choice to close out his career with a shot at more rings. I'd rather stink but have hope for the future than be stuck for five years as a late lottery team.
Not a Bosh fan, eh?
I just think we'll be out of band-aids by then, and even the TT&M combo will be sliding back into the pack.
There are really 2 schools with regards to the Spurs 2010 plan. 1) WIN THEN - Duncan is signed until 2012, IIRC, the championship window lasts as long as he is here. Therefore, load up to put as much talent as possible around him, even at the expense of crashing hard afterwards (being one of the worst teams in the league). 2) BUILD FOR THE FUTURE - A window based on TD is already closed. Free agent acquisitions should be based around a future team core of Tony + 2010 FA, with TD being complementary (similarly with Manu if he resigns).
The current economy may force a 3ed school 3) STAYING ALIVE - where economic considerations for the franchise (& the NBA) mean dropping salary to the point where capspace in 2010 is unused...I'm not going to try an say if a school 3 policy will be followed - that's an ownership decision, because they have access to the books.
School 1) says go for a veteran who will complement Tim's remaining time, who will hopefully come cheaper with the promise of championship shots. Potential 2010 FA's who fit the description: Dirk, Joe Johnson, Yao. All are big names who aren't too old to get a last big payday (unlike say Camby or Pierce in 2010), who have no rings and might just be getting hungry.
School 2) says get a younger player, almost certainly a big, who will work with Tony to build towards another championship contender. Potential 2010 FA's who fit the description: Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Chandler (maybe), Amare (maybe), Millsap, Lee (Last 2 assuming they end up with the qualifying offer this summer).
There are also the secondary FA's to consider, a couple of whom might end up underpaid and making a big difference; eg. Mcgrady, Camby, Manu...
Assuming School 3 is not an issue, I favor school 1 personally. In NBA terms, actually achieving championships correlates VERY highly with high lottery picks, in particular #1 picks. I think ride TD and then a big crash will result in a shorter recovery cycle. I think school 2 will likely lead to a cycle of mediocrity...
My dream 2010 goes like this : with ~$36 Million on the books (TD, Tony, Hill, Mahinmi - who has become a usable bench level big, 2010 1st round pick). The cap is approximately 58 Million. There is a cap hold of roughly 16,000,000 for Manu. They resign Manu to a reasonable 3 year contract ($8Million, $8Million, $8Million). (44 Million on the books). They sign Dirk for 3 years/33 Million (Yes, he could get more from Cuban, but he wants Real ring shot). (55 Million on the books - they can just barely do this. Prior to signing dirk, cap hold for 6 minimum FA's is 6*427000 ~ 2,600,000). Use the remaining below salary cap space to fill out the roster, together with the MLE, and LLE.
Duncan/Mahinimi
Dirk
MLE FA
Manu
Tony/Hill
+ LLE FA, 2010 1st round pick, assorted Vet min players(likely to include Hairston, Gist, 1 or 2 2009 second round picks)...
Teams under the cap don't get cap exceptions.
Nice post pad300...
My main concern is the idea of waiting out this season and next to get, say, Chris Bosh in 2010. I hope that Duncan's longevity is more like Kareem's than Shaq's, but it's impossible to know. I'd guess, based on styles of play, body type, and other factors that it will be somewhere in between those two, but again, we won't know until we get there. But if Duncan's drop-off is anything close to that of Shaq, Ben Wallace, Jermaine O'Neal, or many others, 2010 could be too late. I just think the Spurs have too much talent now to compromise the next two playoff runs because of the 2010 FA bonanza.
I agree. You know the saying, a bird in hand...
I hope the Spurs are contrarians in regards to 2010.
Odds are, they won't win one of the prizes in the 2010 bonanza. The better odds of success are to get some assests from teams who are looking to clear cap room for that. I hope they are contrarians in regards to 2010.
Last edited by StoneBuddha; 02-16-2009 at 06:17 PM.
my take has always been a pessimistic one. i dont think we have a shot at the cream of the 2010 crop, and im not sure id break the bank on the 2nd tier guys if it means gutting the roster. assuming manu and mason are still contributing members of our core by them, id rather simply keep them around (if not, all bets off).
assuming we do nothing dramatic this season (and i doubt we do), i think the more prudent route would be to try and package our expiring deals and limited assets next year to try and get in on someone else slashing payroll to get into the 2010 market. then add in one MLE type player over the next two year, because i doubt we spend the full MLE in back to back years being at/over the tax line. plus any potential draft choices (2nd rounders + 2010 1st, if not traded) and possible international stashes (gist + splitter, while still probably doubtful). and maybe your stray vet min type looking to add to a championship caliber team.
for the 2010 plan to work, spurs have sign ginobili to much less or not sign him at all. otherwise, the 2010 plan is a time to resign original spurs' players.
I tend to believe those big names will remain in their teams that they are playing on, then al of their chasers will find themselves being fooled in 10.
Some 2009 Free Agents that might fit (and their shortcomings):
Chris Andersen (not a typical Spur profile... but I like him)
Ron Artest (do I even have to say it?)
Charlie Villanueva ( rep for being lazy on D/ probably too expensive)
Mouhamed Sene (foul-prone/limited offensively)
Joe Smith (senior citizen, almost)
Chris Wilcox (no D)
Marcin Gortat (Restricted FA, any offer could be matched)
Trevor Ariza (probably will get bigger offer than MLE)
Anyone see any major sign and trades in the offing before the deadline. Some of these teams with good free agents in 2010 could get caught in 2010 without a seat at the table when the music stops.
It might make more sense to try and move them now and get something instead of zip?
chris bosh keeps coming up as a name. i don't really like bosh that much because of his defense. his offensive game is good but defensively, he's not the bigman to anchor any defense. also, i think his game kind of reminds me of kevin garnett just without the defense or rebounding.
there's absolutely no chance we're getting Bosh..he's going to get a max contract from a team that overpays him, probably Toronto..
ss' plan sounds pretty good..I HIGHLY doubt we'll get a big name, and I don't really want one..hopefully Tony will have improved even more by then, and will be ready to take the role as the primary player on the team..Duncan will still be a great player at that time, although no longer the dominant player he is today..Manu should still be good as well..
I like signing a young MLE player to help..hopefully George will have developed some more by then..hopefully we'll have Hairston, Mahinmi, and Gist healthy and on the roster by then..
Parker, Hill, Mason, Hairston, Gist, Duncan, Mahinmi, Manu, Bonner, a MLE player, a player acquired in a trade next year, and a past his prime veteran signing for cheap, sounds like a pretty good roster to me..
As long as we're saying hopefully, hopefully we'll have Splitter by then to go along with a healthy Mahinmi.
i agree.
if james wants multiple championships, there's no better place than right next to duncan and parker. pipe dream as it may be, but there is no other team with cap space in 2010 that can offer a better chance for a championship than the spurs. duncan will stay for at least two more years after 2010 and parker will make a great wingman for james for years to come. plus in 2010, all the spurs' draft and stash + young picks will finally develop. hairston, hill, splitter, mahinmi, mason, and gist have the potential to be at least solid role players.
to be honest i dont think james would be a great addition tyo the spurs. he demands the ball too much and he demands even more attention. as great as he is i dont think he would be a great fit here. beside all the guy thonks about is money and himself.
i don't think james is the type of player that demands attention. attention definitely goes to him, but to say that he demands it is a bit harsh. he's a player that wants to win and understands the value of defense. he does get the ball a lot but that's because the cavs aren't a team with a lot of options. with mo williams on the team, james has no problem letting williams take over games while playing a secondary role. he's also getting a lot of double digit assists this season and in past seasons.
i have no problem with james becoming the main option on the spurs because by 2010, he will obviously be better than duncan and parker. surround him with three point shooters, and the spurs will be unstoppable. pipe dream though. spurs can offer a max contract but cleavland can offer more and a longer contract. bigger markets can provide better endorsement deals.
There are only two possible destinations for Lebron in 2010. Neither of them are San Antonio.
first hoepfully the economy gets better and there will be a real 2010 free agent market
the spurs supposdly i heard should have $25 million enough to sign 2 big players to long term deals i say we can work with ginobil about a huge pay cut about a 3 year 9 million contract would be pefect for him but the 3rd year be our decision jsut inc ase if duncan decides to call it quits by 2012 which i hope he retires until he's 40 because i don't want pop to go where i want him to get 1,000 wins and hopefully we can match the bulls 6 championships or better when it's said and done and if mason keeps playing well then we can keep him like a brent barry useage
my personal and most likely free agent to give us interest is chris bosh first because he's from texas more from the dallas area and plus texas dosen't have a state tax like canada and plus he gets to play along a 35 year old tim duncan and hopefully learn from him to get more better
my guess this offseason is to probably go after trevor ariza to replace bruce would be really nice giving him the full MLE and somehow doing a sign and trade with pistons for rasheed walalce would be nice also but that might not happen e ally if the salary cap dosen't increase
and also when tim duncan's contract goes off the books in 2012 i hope we go after al jefferson or lamarcus aldridge or how bout greg oden if he dosen't become a bust he could be our steal when shaq was signed by the lakers from the magic that would be nice e ally with all the blazer stuff that went down this year
and last but not least to keep tony parker in a spurs uniform the rest of his carrer i can't see eva going for anyone besides the spurs
dream 2010 lineup:
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Trevor Ariza
Geroge Hill
Tony Parker
i say we go small in our front court
rasheed wallace
ian mihimmi
james gist
manu ginobili
malik hairston
well probably pick another guard in 2010 draft if we don't sign a future shooting guard
roger mason
victor sanikidze he'll be the 12th man also
Sergei Karaulov to see how he can do but he'll probably be riding the bench the whole time ha
and hopefully sign another guy in the 2010 free agent to help us out like a joe johnson would be really nice with chris bosh
and also can't forget this year's second round draft picks dang we'll be packed hopefull 2 out of 3 of them are kids from overseas and the other who is a big guy that could be a steal in this years draft in the second round
and i left out tiago splitter because i believe he'll be trade sorry guys
sorry for my bad grammer ha
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